discussion of theory to hasten ripening of buds using ethylene gas

[Filthy Phil]

So I have been going over this in my head for a while wondering if it would work, and its kind of a strange idea. I got the idea when finding out how to make a pineapple force flower itself. For those of you unfamiliar in pineapple growing, a pineapple takes a few years to fruit, but from what i found is that you can force it to flower using ethylene gas. they advized doing this by taking an apple, putting it in a bag and bassically allowing it to rot, and the ethylene gas vents from the bag to the pineapple instigating flowering. Heres a few links

http://www.springerlink.com/content/12t56088t6r29614/
http://www.ehow.com/how_6977652_do-make-pineapple-plant-fruit_.html

Now, with that said, another point is that more than just instigating flowering, ethylene gas is used to ripen fruit which has been picked too early. This is why putting fruit in a paper bag helps it to ripen, the ethylene builds up in the bag and does some hocus pocus chemistry stuff, tada, ripe fruit. here are some more links.

http://www.ethylenegas.com/ethylene.htm
http://www.masslive.com/reich/republican/index.ssf?/base/living-0/1258186929287790.xml&coll=1

If you clicked the second link its for a source called "the republican", there is no relation to me involved in that. Please dont read into it politically. Moving forward. So by now I would assume some of you have come to the same question that i did: can ethylene gas serve a function to enhance my bloom/ flowering room? What do you think? Is it possible that the use of small amounts of ethylene gas can hasten the development and ripening of our favorite ladies? I'm not suggesting putting a ethylene tank in the room or anything, but what about a piece of fruit in a fine screen so that bugs dont come to it or something. It sounds dangerous to me, intentionally keeping a piece of over ripening fruit in the bloom room, sounds like a way to get mildew or a bug infection, but in theory, what do you guys think?

I think that, in theory at least, it could be an interesting twist in home gardening.... any response, aside from ones that go," dumbass...what are you thinking, rotting fruit in your bloom room?!?....dumbass" Aside from stuff like that, any comment would be appreciated.

 

[Jedi Hippie]

I would have to think that there would be a difference in forcing flowering,and ripening fruit in a food crop,as opposed to growing mj.We have the abilty to force flowering in mj by manipulating the light cycle in a controlled environment.Ethylene gas may be useful to force ripening in a fruit with a flesh,however ripening a mj bud is a diiferent animal.We try to grow the biggest buds possible,and I don`t think the use of ethylene gas will hasten any growth cycle to produce bigger,or earlier buds.They have a natural cycle of growing pistils and deveoping trichs to come to maturity.We also have to take into account the process involved in developing a potent THC molecule.I firmly believe that has a lot to do with light,especially the UV spectrum.I doubt it can be accelerated with ethylene gas.However,I could very well be wrong about the whole thing.Always good to investigate all possibilties when it comes to our favorite plants.

 

[theinhibitor]

Hmm interesting...here are some interesting paragraphs from wikipedia:

"New growth and newly germinated seedlings produce more ethylene than can escape the plant, which leads to elevated amounts of ethylene, inhibiting leaf expansion"
and
"Ethylene affects cell growth and cell shape; when a growing shoot hits an obstacle while underground, ethylene production greatly increases, preventing cell elongation and causing the stem to swell. The resulting thicker stem can exert more pressure against the object impeding its path to the surface. If the shoot does not reach the surface and the ethylene stimulus becomes prolonged, it affects the stems natural geotropic response, which is to grow upright, allowing it to grow around an object. Studies seem to indicate that ethylene affects stem diameter and height: When stems of trees are subjected to wind, causing lateral stress, greater ethylene production occurs, resulting in thicker, more sturdy tree trunks and branches."
Would be interesting to try for sure. This is actually pretty cool. Maybe it could help root development? Auxins (another plant hormone) look sick! I wonder if i could get my hands on some:
"Auxins are compounds that positively influence cell enlargement, bud formation and root initiation. They also promote the production of other hormones and in conjunction with cytokinins, they control the growth of stems, roots, and fruits, and convert stems into flowers.[11] Auxins were the first class of growth regulators discovered.[12] They affect cell elongation by altering cell wall plasticity. They stimulate cambium, a subtype of meristem cells, to divide and in stems cause secondary xylem to differentiate. Auxins act to inhibit the growth of buds lower down the stems (apical dominance), and also to promote lateral and adventitious root development and growth."

 

[theinhibitor]

I would have to think that there would be a difference in forcing flowering,and ripening fruit in a food crop,as opposed to growing mj.We have the abilty to force flowering in mj by manipulating the light cycle in a controlled environment.Ethylene gas may be useful to force ripening in a fruit with a flesh,however ripening a mj bud is a diiferent animal.We try to grow the biggest buds possible,and I don`t think the use of ethylene gas will hasten any growth cycle to produce bigger,or earlier buds.They have a natural cycle of growing pistils and deveoping trichs to come to maturity.We also have to take into account the process involved in developing a potent THC molecule.I firmly believe that has a lot to do with light,especially the UV spectrum.I doubt it can be accelerated with ethylene gas.However,I could very well be wrong about the whole thing.Always good to investigate all possibilties when it comes to our favorite plants.

I thought that, but it affects the whole plant, not just the fleshy parts of the fruit. in fact, it makes a plant go into something similar to menopause, which means it forces the plant to flower. its a plant hormone so it probably would affect mj as well.

 

[Filthy Phil]

I would have to think that there would be a difference in forcing flowering,and ripening fruit in a food crop,as opposed to growing mj.We have the abilty to force flowering in mj by manipulating the light cycle in a controlled environment.Ethylene gas may be useful to force ripening in a fruit with a flesh,however ripening a mj bud is a diiferent animal.We try to grow the biggest buds possible,and I don`t think the use of ethylene gas will hasten any growth cycle to produce bigger,or earlier buds.They have a natural cycle of growing pistils and deveoping trichs to come to maturity.We also have to take into account the process involved in developing a potent THC molecule.I firmly believe that has a lot to do with light,especially the UV spectrum.I doubt it can be accelerated with ethylene gas.However,I could very well be wrong about the whole thing.Always good to investigate all possibilties when it comes to our favorite plants.

First off, hi jedi hippy, welcome. I was thinking that this is in sync with what happens in nature as well given that as plants are finishing there is more and more ethylene naturally occuring in the environment. I suspect this jappens even from the greater occurence of dew that forms in fall months hastening decay of all sorts of stuff in the ground, not to mention of course more.frequent precipitation. I think that in its natural setting it is likely to encounte ethylene gas as it ripens. Again just a thought...

 

[Filthy Phil]

Hmm interesting...here are some interesting paragraphs from wikipedia:

"New growth and newly germinated seedlings produce more ethylene than can escape the plant, which leads to elevated amounts of ethylene, inhibiting leaf expansion"
and
"Ethylene affects cell growth and cell shape; when a growing shoot hits an obstacle while underground, ethylene production greatly increases, preventing cell elongation and causing the stem to swell. The resulting thicker stem can exert more pressure against the object impeding its path to the surface. If the shoot does not reach the surface and the ethylene stimulus becomes prolonged, it affects the stems natural geotropic response, which is to grow upright, allowing it to grow around an object. Studies seem to indicate that ethylene affects stem diameter and height: When stems of trees are subjected to wind, causing lateral stress, greater ethylene production occurs, resulting in thicker, more sturdy tree trunks and branches."
Would be interesting to try for sure. This is actually pretty cool. Maybe it could help root development? Auxins (another plant hormone) look sick! I wonder if i could get my hands on some:
"Auxins are compounds that positively influence cell enlargement, bud formation and root initiation. They also promote the production of other hormones and in conjunction with cytokinins, they control the growth of stems, roots, and fruits, and convert stems into flowers.[11] Auxins were the first class of growth regulators discovered.[12] They affect cell elongation by altering cell wall plasticity. They stimulate cambium, a subtype of meristem cells, to divide and in stems cause secondary xylem to differentiate. Auxins act to inhibit the growth of buds lower down the stems (apical dominance), and also to promote lateral and adventitious root development and growth."

Tricholine, I think it is called, is a naturally occuring auxin found in alfalfa. If you make compost teas with it, you get the tricholine. Its especially benneficial during veg stage

 

[theinhibitor]

Tricholine, I think it is called, is a naturally occuring auxin found in alfalfa. If you make compost teas with it, you get the tricholine. Its especially benneficial during veg stage

Oh yeah Ive heard of that...didnt know it was an auxin haha. I wonder if you can buy powdered forms somewhere.
But im really interested in the ethylene idea. the second i get back to the lab ill have take some haha. We have loads of it. Really useful in polymerization

As for the application, apparently leaves have ethylene receptors so I would localize to a couple leaves at first.

 

[Filthy Phil]

dude, this could be awesome! i didnt want to get excited until i heard from a few people who didnt laugh at the idea. That would be awesome if you could perhaps speed up harvest by even a couple days at the least. If you could cut a week off by something as simple as a couple of overrippened apples wrapped in cheese cloth...that would be super sweet. or even if it packed more intense bud production or flavor or something in to the same amount of time

 

[max316420]

Interesting thread, gonna have to put my thinkin cap on to read this and not be high as hell... Cool shit guys

 

[Total Head]

rotting fruit in the grow room will attract bugs. even if you did the screen thing they would still be attracted to the area. i remember a thread on here a while back about the relationship of dead leaves to ripening. basically the same theory applied. piles of dead leaves give off ethylene and something else that i don't recall that signals to the plant to ripen. interesting theory, i would watch out for the rotting fruit though.

 

[theinhibitor]

rotting fruit in the grow room will attract bugs. even if you did the screen thing they would still be attracted to the area. i remember a thread on here a while back about the relationship of dead leaves to ripening. basically the same theory applied. piles of dead leaves give off ethylene and something else that i don't recall that signals to the plant to ripen. interesting theory, i would watch out for the rotting fruit though.

You can buy canisters online at chemical supply stores.

 

[eDude]

Also, something to keep in mind is that co2 is a ethylene inhibitor.

 

[Dutch Crunch]

From experience, in a sealed room flowers appear sooner and finish faster than in a continuously ventilated room( though this could be the result of many factor including additional CO2, more light, different growing medium, ect.). But this may also be due to the fact the ethylene is trapped. I would not rule out that the cycle could be accelerated using ethylene. Instead of using over ripened fruit, you could use acetylene gas tanks that they use for cutting and welding metal. It's ethylene gas and the atmospheric concentrations can be controlled the same way as CO2 using the same timer and regulator.

 

[Filthy Phil]

From experience, in a sealed room flowers appear sooner and finish faster than in a continuously ventilated room( though this could be the result of many factor including additional CO2, more light, different growing medium, ect.). But this may also be due to the fact the ethylene is trapped. I would not rule out that the cycle could be accelerated using ethylene. Instead of using over ripened fruit, you could use acetylene gas tanks that they use for cutting and welding metal. It's ethylene gas and the atmospheric concentrations can be controlled the same way as CO2 using the same timer and regulator.

But rotting fruit is so much eeeeasierrrrrr.=(

 

[scarhole2]

For ethylene I've used DiY yeast sugar C02 generators.
Not sure if it worked.

 

[HippyLabRat]

Instead of using over ripened fruit, you could use acetylene gas tanks that they use for cutting and welding metal. It's ethylene gas and the atmospheric concentrations can be controlled the same way as CO2 using the same timer and regulator.

Ethylene (ethene) is NOT THE SAME as acetylene (ethyne). No! Bad stoner! Bad, Bad stoner!

Ethylene is a 2-carbon chain with a double bond between the carbons. Acetylene is 2-carbon chain with a triple bond between the two carbons. One is a plant hormone, the other is likely toxic to your plants.

 

[nameno]

I needed to read this,to stretch my mind some.
Can't come up with new ideas without testing 'em.
Think outside of.

 

[BEGINNERGROWER7]

Well would it work if you got a bucket, filled it with apples, and placing a lid over it, but also drill a very small hole for a vinyl tube to go through. Place the opposite end of the vinyl tube near your plants?
Kinda just like a nigger rigged co2 setup.

 

[gudkarma]

i did this.
several times... with bananas in a paper bag.
had some plants slow to finish... and the ethylene helped push them over the edge.

this has been repeated in my lab several times

i also know scarhole has verified that ethylene (from fruit) can be used to increase your odds of getting fem seeds.

his method isnt scientific but its very interesting.

its here on RIU ...ill search later and post the link.

 

[cannawizard]

https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/153785-ethylene-list-plant-responses.html

https://www.rollitup.org/breeders-paradise/391569-ethylene.html