What are the negatives of Atheism?

[Hepheastus420]

Hep, that wasn't directed toward you, but aimed at Oly (see my reply with quote on that post). I see your point very clearly, which is there are other negative influences beside religion. My point is that they cannot be as influential as christianity, perhaps because those other influences don't promise eternal life if you comply, and don't threaten to set you on fire if you don't...

Yes yes good uncompleted debate bro. May we continue on how if religion is eradicated then music should follow?

 

[Hepheastus420]

Or finding cures for major diseases, or discovering the laws of physics, or freeing slaves, or liberating women, or using electricity, or inventing toilet paper...

"Well I say there are things we don't want to know! Important things!" - Ned Flanders

Yeah I like my toilet paper, ha. But EVERYTHING has negative sides so why is there so many prejudice thoughts towards religion?

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

Or finding cures for major disease, or discovering the laws of physics, or freeing slaver, or liberating women, or using electricity, or inventing toilet paper...

If you dont already know, and i am sure most do, religion is about control, some people arent able to make decisions without a set of guidelines that contradict each other to live by

the bible also says all animals and plants are ours to use but devout Christen's still think MJ will make their daughters sleep with ethnic people and their sons will steal and rob and rape

it is stupidity on the highest and most excepted level, but who cares about injustice until it kills a majority of an ethnic group or cause the deforestation on the world or some other horrible instinse that effects the world

 

[Heisenberg]

Listen heis I'm sorry that (in your opinion) religion causes us to think unrationally but maybe that's a good thing. Maybe simple times are better than finding out how to make more dangerous weapons and such.

Maybe, but I don't personally subscribe to the idea that ignorance is preferable to knowledge. That dormancy is better than progress. I do not think it's okay to be told substantial claims that govern my eternal well being and demand prejudice and intolerance without verification. As for weapons, there will always be someone somewhere developing them. Knowledge can help us defend against them, whereas ignorance can only ensure our weakness. We would also have to give up any medical advances, which i'm sure you appreciate if not for yourself, for your family. Would you be willing to let a loved one die over a medical complication when a procedure could help them live another 10 years, just for the sake of simplicity? You benefit from and covet progress in your everyday routine from the clothes you wear to the food you eat, so asserting that progress should be halted in the area of religion would seem contradictory.

 

[Hepheastus420]

If you dont already know, and i am sure most do, religion is about control, some people arent able to make decisions without a set of guidelines that contradict each other to live by

the bible also says all animals and plants are ours to use but devout Christen's still think MJ will make their daughters sleep with ethnic people and their sons will steal and rob and rape

it is stupidity on the highest and most excepted level, but who cares about injustice until it kills a majority of an ethnic group or cause the deforestation on the world or some other horrible instinse that effects the world

You're late on that party bro. We have already stated that those people are hypocrites and are not to be grouped together with all the other religious people.

 

[tyler.durden]

Yes yes good uncompleted debate bro. May we continue on how if religion is eradicated then music should follow?

Music should not be eradicated because it does not promise eternal life if you comply, and doesn't threaten to set you on fire if you don't...

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

Yeah I like my toilet paper, ha. But EVERYTHING has negative sides so why is there so many prejudice thoughts towards religion?

when a group of individuals is brougth together so that they can be lied to in order to control thier actions and thoughts for a financial/egotistical gain . .. . .. . . . name any cult oh i mean organized religion that doenst operate by control and fear and then educate me on why their is still a debate about the negativity or positivity of religion

 

[Hepheastus420]

Maybe, but I don't personally subscribe to the idea that ignorance is preferable to knowledge. That dormancy is better than progress. I do not think it's okay to be told substantial claims that govern my eternal well being and demand prejudice and intolerance without verification. As for weapons, there will always be someone somewhere developing them. Knowledge can help us defend against them, whereas ignorance can only ensure our weakness. We would also have to give up any medical advances, which i'm sure you appreciate if not for yourself, for your family. Would you be willing to let a loved one die over a medical complication when a procedure could help them live another 10 years, just for the sake of simplicity? You benefit from and covet progress in your everyday routine from the clothes you wear to the food you eat, so asserting that progress should be halted in the area of religion would seem contradictory.

yeah I must admit I appreciate science (which I have said like 10 times). Do you want to know something heis? I have been playing the ignorant person when it comes to the benefits of science (which I'm sure you noticed, for example all the times I bring up nuclear weapons) to make a point that many atheists are ignorant to the benefits of religion. Atheists can look on the bad side of religion just like we can look on the bad side of science. I do not agree with either of the two (only looking at the bad side of science or only looking at the bad side of religion). It would be amazing if we could get rid of everything negative about science and religion but we both know that won't happen. I really do appreciate science and hope they advance and I really do hope that people will stop using religion to justify their negative actions.

 

[Hepheastus420]

when a group of individuals is brougth together so that they can be lied to in order to control thier actions and thoughts for a financial/egotistical gain . .. . .. . . . name any cult oh i mean organized religion that doenst operate by control and fear and then educate me on why their is still a debate about the negativity or positivity of religion

Bro you seriously are late to the party. I have stated I don't agree with organized religion so you're arguing with the wrong person.

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

you have a good argument heph, but your argument relies on the lies, that religion has any positive benefits and when science has made life easier as it has it is not needed any more to promote common sense or bigotry

 

[Hepheastus420]

Music should not be eradicated because it does not promise eternal life if you comply, and doesn't threaten to set you on fire if you don't...

I understand that bro, ok let's imagine religion has been eradicated for 100 years. Are you following me? (I'm sorry if I sound like a dick for that is not my intention) Now then we won't compare music to religion anymore. So here we are 100 years in the future and I'm some random guy that is trying to stop violence. I'm gonna stop here so that we can set the scenario and I'm gonna act like we didn't just finish talking about religion. Just follow me I will get to my point soon.

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

Bro you seriously are late to the party. I have stated I don't agree with organized religion so you're arguing with the wrong person.

yeah I must admit I appreciate science (which I have said like 10 times). Do you want to know something heis? I have been playing the ignorant person when it comes to the benefits of science (which I'm sure you noticed, for example all the times I bring up nuclear weapons) to make a point that many atheists are ignorant to the benefits of religion. Atheists can look on the bad side of religion just like we can look on the bad side of science. I do not agree with either of the two (only looking at the bad side of science or only looking at the bad side of religion). It would be amazing if we could get rid of everything negative about science and religion but we both know that won't happen. I really do appreciate science and hope they advance and I really do hope that people will stop using religion to justify their negative actions.

my bad as usual,

but i just dont see any point in playing debate about religion, for the most part its all negative, and playing devils advocate just seems . .. . .. . . .. .childish . .. . you seem educated or at least able to have an opinoin and back it up but why argue any point in religoins?

 

[Hepheastus420]

you have a good argument heph, but it all relies on lies that religion has any positive benefits and when science has made life easier as it has it is not needed any more to promote common sense or bigotry

Well first off thanks bro for the compliment. Second off why are we even talking about science, ha? I like science and I try learning more about it everyday. And I appreciate science alot for it has brought forth many benefits. But onto religion I believe it has benefits. At least in my world it has. Don't base everything I have stated before on the example I'm about to provide (pretty much please don't use it against me later). My cousin was has a horrible father and he literally wanted to kill him and commit suicide. The way I got him out of this mess was I went to my bible and looked up scriptures of peace and I interpreted them so that he could understand what the hell I was trying to tell him. Anyways he thought that what I was saying is so true and I told him I didn't come up with the things I was telling him but the bible did (keep in mind I do not care to convert him) so he asks me to borrow it. I of course give it to him. Long story short, he is now more calm and has moved out and thanks me often for showing him the bible and it's teachings. IDK if how I helped him is directly related to the bible or not but I don't see a problem if religion has that kind of benefit.

 

[Heisenberg]

yeah I must admit I appreciate science (which I have said like 10 times). Do you want to know something heis? I have been playing the ignorant person when it comes to the benefits of science (which I'm sure you noticed, for example all the times I bring up nuclear weapons) to make a point that many atheists are ignorant to the benefits of religion. Atheists can look on the bad side of religion just like we can look on the bad side of science. I do not agree with either of the two (only looking at the bad side of science or only looking at the bad side of religion). It would be amazing if we could get rid of everything negative about science and religion but we both know that won't happen. I really do appreciate science and hope they advance and I really do hope that people will stop using religion to justify their negative actions.

Pretense is a poor way to make a point. What you are missing is that your examples of negative aspects are not equal when it comes to science and religion. Science offers the same negative aspects as anything. Nuclear theory can be used to make weapons or cheap efficient energy. Religion also has these negative aspects involving application. In short, practically everything has the potential to be misused. This is the fault of the mis-users, not the fault of religion or science. The evil lies within the person, a good person does not misuse these things.

Our point is that in addition to this, religion also offers a unique potential for evil that does not require misuse. A person can murder, be prejudice, advocate torture, ect and still be following scripture. This person does not need to be evil. A good person can engage in evil acts in the name of religion without misusing religion at all. It is only the context born from your own morality that causes you to use religion in a responsible way, a way that is contradictory to much of it's teachings. What the state of the world shows us is that people are more than happy to use religion to fuel intolerance, torture and murder, in fact, many times they feel it is their god given duty, and they are technically not misusing the teachings at all. Those that choose to take a passive approach to religious worship still serve to foster extremism and manipulation.

What we are asking, because we genuinely want to know, is if an atheistic stance also has this added potential for evil.

 

[tyler.durden]

I understand that bro, ok let's imagine religion has been eradicated for 100 years. Are you following me? (I'm sorry if I sound like a dick for that is not my intention) Now then we won't compare music to religion anymore. So here we are 100 years in the future and I'm some random guy that is trying to stop violence. I'm gonna stop here so that we can set the scenario and I'm gonna act like we didn't just finish talking about religion. Just follow me I will get to my point soon.

Interesting. Who do I get to be in this play? I wanna be a cyborg that fights crime in post apocalyptic USA Maybe we could team up...

 

[Hepheastus420]

my bad as usual,

but i just dont see any point in playing debate about religion, for the most part its all negative, and playing devils advocate just seems . .. . .. . . .. .childish . .. . you seem educated or at least able to have an opinoin and back it up but why argue any point in religoins?

If your saying that I am smart enough to think more rationally than I do(in your opinion) then thanks again. I just simply believe there is a god and enjoy looking towards Jesus as an example (kinda like what would Jesus do, ha), therefore I follow my religion. But see the thing is that I believe religion doesn't cause any negativity in my life so it's all just positive, at least for me. I do however understand that alot of people abuse religion or use it to justify their negative actions. I would like to say that I do not agree with them and hope that they actually drop their religion since it just causes to much negativity in their own lives. Besides if their killing in the name of their god or anything else negative then most likely they are being hypocrites. Unless they are worshiping an evil god then that person is evil no matter what.

 

[Hepheastus420]

Interesting...

Hey guys how can we get rid of music? I want to get rid if music because my own son has been listening to alot of lip Wayne and is becoming more and more depressed and rebelious everyday. I believe that the music industry has too much influence over our youth. It teaches them too rebel against us. I mean lil Wayne is his and a large majority of his friends idol but check these lyrics out.
A young nigga screaming fuck the world and let 'em die
Behind tints, tryna' duck the world and smoking rie
Got my bandanna 'round my head and pants to my feet
And got my eyes fire red and glock on my seat
I'm tryna' stay under intoxication
'Cause I lost my father, and got a daughter, plus I'm on probation
I'm drinking liquor like it's water, getting pissy drunk
And staying away from them lil' broads that trying to give me some
I keep a chopper in the trunk and my heat on my wasteline
Ducking the law, 'cause I ain't tryna' do no FED time
Sometimes I just wish I could be away
But I gotta take care of Reginae and keep macita straight
So I just maintain the struggle and I keep trying
But how can I when my closest people keep dyin'
I ain't lying that the law tryna' bust my clique
But I scream fuck the world man, I'm too young for this


These are very negative lyrics and I do not appreciate them. I believe we should kick music off of shows like MTV. What is your opinion on this?

 

[Heisenberg]

If your saying that I am smart enough to think more rationally than I do(in your opinion) then thanks again. I just simply believe there is a god and enjoy looking towards Jesus as an example (kinda like what would Jesus do, ha), therefore I follow my religion. But see the thing is that I believe religion doesn't cause any negativity in my life so it's all just positive, at least for me. I do however understand that alot of people abuse religion or use it to justify their negative actions. I would like to say that I do not agree with them and hope that they actually drop their religion since it just causes to much negativity in their own lives. Besides if their killing in the name of their god or anything else negative then most likely they are being hypocrites. Unless they are worshiping an evil god then that person is evil no matter what.

You make a great point here. The idea of god and the desire to worship him, although could have the potential to be misused, does not have the added potential of evil that dogmatic religion has. For you, the idea of god gives you many positive things. You select parts of the bible that you feel helps you understand your relationship with god, and ignore those parts that you feel encourage evil. This is what I have been trying to promote all along. I extend skepticism consistently throughout my thinking so my personal conclusion is the claim of god has no support. I encourage, but do not demand that you come to the same conclusion, and am completely happy to tolerate your conclusion that god is real, and live in peace with you. It is not until your certainty evolves into a structure that entails cruelty and forbids dispute that I have a problem tolerating it.

In short, I feel faith is grounded in error and gives false ideas, but is tolerable on a individual level. I feel dogmatic adherence to ideology which condemns critical analysis leads to cruelty, therefore is intolerable and should be eradicated. This applies to not only religious doctrine, but any ideology.

Incidentally, I would be happy to discuss the negative aspects of music and it's influence but you should start a thread just for the topic, as it derails the topic here.

 

[Hepheastus420]

Pretense is a poor way to make a point. What you are missing is that your examples of negative aspects are not equal when it comes to science and religion. Science offers the same negative aspects as anything. Nuclear theory can be used to make weapons or cheap efficient energy. Religion also has these negative aspects involving application. In short, practically everything has the potential to be misused. This is the fault of the mis-users, not the fault of religion or science. The evil lies within the person, a good person does not misuse these things.

Our point is that in addition to this, religion also offers a unique potential for evil that does not require misuse. A person can murder, be prejudice, advocate torture, ect and still be following scripture. This person does not need to be evil. A good person can engage in evil acts in the name of religion without misusing religion at all. It is only the context born from your own morality that causes you to use religion in a responsible way, a way that is contradictory to much of it's teachings. What the state of the world shows us is that people are more than happy to use religion to fuel intolerance, torture and murder, in fact, many times they feel it is their god given duty, and they are technically not misusing the teachings at all. Those that choose to take a passive approach to religious worship still serve to foster extremism and manipulation.

What we are asking, because we genuinely want to know, is if an atheistic stance also has this added potential for evil.

Like I've stated everything has the potential for evil. Once again let's take nuclear research it can be used for it's benefits. It can also be used to defend us in a war. But it's ok for us to nuke small towns? The us military thinks it's all right to use nuclear research to kill many people at once even if they are innocent. It's perfectly legal so the military doesn't have to illegally misuse it. So yes science has the same potential evil as religion. Because just like religion science requires a good sense of morality to use it for good. It is also legal for science to kill many innocent victims in a nuclear warfare. A good person in the military does not misuse nuclear weapons because they are simply defending our country but while doing this he is killing many people some good and some bad. In our moral minds he is a hero but in reality he is a killer. In religion those people that believe it's ok to kill in the name of their god is a hero to the other religious followers but in reality he is a killer. See the similarity?

 

[Hepheastus420]

Interesting. Who do I get to be in this play? I wanna be a cyborg that fights crime in post apocalyptic USA Maybe we could team up...

Yeah we are all cyborgs. I'm gonna play the guy that works alone, but I slowly warm up to you.