What are the negatives of Atheism?

[Hepheastus420]

You make a great point here. The idea of god and the desire to worship him, although could have the potential to be misused, does not have the added potential of evil that dogmatic religion has. For you, the idea of god gives you many positive things. You select parts of the bible that you feel helps you understand your relationship with god, and ignore those parts that you feel encourage evil. This is what I have been trying to promote all along. I extend skepticism consistently throughout my thinking so my personal conclusion is the claim of god has no support. I do not demand that you come to the same conclusion, and am completely happy to tolerate your conclusion that god is real, and live in peace with you. It is not until your certainty evolves into a structure that entails cruelty and forbids dispute that I have a problem tolerating it.

In short, I feel faith is grounded in error and gives false ideas, but is tolerable on a individual level. I feel dogmatic adherence to ideology which condemns critical analysis leads to cruelty, therefore is intolerable and should be eradicated. This applies to not only religious doctrine, but any ideology.

Incidentally, I would be happy to discuss the negative aspects of music and it's influence but you should start a thread just for the topic, as it derails the topic here.

agreed now let's go smoke some good herb and think about what else we can use science to benefit ourselves.

 

[Hepheastus420]

Hey guys how can we get rid of music? I want to get rid if music because my own son has been listening to alot of lip Wayne and is becoming more and more depressed and rebelious everyday. I believe that the music industry has too much influence over our youth. It teaches them too rebel against us. I mean lil Wayne is his and a large majority of his friends idol but check these lyrics out.
A young nigga screaming fuck the world and let 'em die
Behind tints, tryna' duck the world and smoking rie
Got my bandanna 'round my head and pants to my feet
And got my eyes fire red and glock on my seat
I'm tryna' stay under intoxication
'Cause I lost my father, and got a daughter, plus I'm on probation
I'm drinking liquor like it's water, getting pissy drunk
And staying away from them lil' broads that trying to give me some
I keep a chopper in the trunk and my heat on my wasteline
Ducking the law, 'cause I ain't tryna' do no FED time
Sometimes I just wish I could be away
But I gotta take care of Reginae and keep macita straight
So I just maintain the struggle and I keep trying
But how can I when my closest people keep dyin'
I ain't lying that the law tryna' bust my clique
But I scream fuck the world man, I'm too young for this


These are very negative lyrics and I do not appreciate them. I believe we should kick music off of shows like MTV. What is your opinion on this?

Alright whenever I stop like this you are supposed to play along and tell me what you think about my idea.

 

[Heisenberg]

Like I've stated everything has the potential for evil. Once again let's take nuclear research it can be used for it's benefits. It can also be used to defend us in a war. But it's ok for us to nuke small towns? The us military thinks it's all right to use nuclear research to kill many people at once even if they are innocent. It's perfectly legal so the military doesn't have to illegally misuse it. So yes science has the same potential evil as religion. Because just like religion science requires a good sense of morality to use it for good. It is also legal for science to kill many innocent victims in a nuclear warfare. A good person in the military does not misuse nuclear weapons because they are simply defending our country but while doing this he is killing many people some good and some bad. In our moral minds he is a hero but in reality he is a killer. In religion those people that believe it's ok to kill in the name of their god is a hero to the other religious followers but in reality he is a killer. See the similarity?

This thread is not concerned with the potential misuse of anything. We are focused on the inherit negative aspects to atheism and in contrast religion. Inherit meaning unique to the ideology, not the generic potential for misuse that is shared by everything. I know I will not misuse atheism. The question is, could my skeptical stance cause me to do evil even if I do not misuse it? We know this is a danger of religion, and are wondering if the same is true of skepticism, particularly atheism.

 

[Hepheastus420]

This thread is not concerned with the potential misuse of anything. We are focused on the inherit negative aspects to atheism and in contrast religion. Inherit meaning unique to the ideology, not the generic potential for misuse that is shared by everything. I know I will not misuse atheism. The question is, could my atheistic stance cause me to do evil even if I do not misuse it? We know this is a danger of religion, and are wondering if the same is true of skepticism, particularly atheism.

The answer to your question is yes. Like the example I used earlier, a man in the military is not misusing nuclear research when he nukes a small town, yet he still kills innocent victims in doing so. Actually he is considered a hero. I'm not sure about you but killing innocent people seems pretty evil to me.

 

[Heisenberg]

The answer to your question is yes. Like the example I used earlier, a man in the military is not misusing nuclear research when he nukes a small town, yet he still kills innocent victims in doing so. Actually he is considered a hero. I'm not sure about you but killing innocent people seems pretty evil to me.

I think we disagree on what constitutes misuse. To me, using knowledge to kill innocent people is a misuse. If they are innocent, then it is murder, and not defense. I don't believe that science, in simply providing this knowledge, used a process which encourages it to be used for murder. Remember, science is a systematic way of carefully and thoroughly observing nature while using consistent logic to evaluate the results. How the results are used is determined by the morality of those using it. What we want to know is if the ideology itself, the process of learning about nature, harbors inherit evil, as the process of leaning about god via religion does.

 

[Hepheastus420]

I think we disagree on what constitutes misuse. To me, using knowledge to kill innocent people is a misuse. If they are innocent, then it is murder, and not defense. I don't believe that science, in simply providing this knowledge, used a process which encourages it to be used for murder. Remember, science is a systematic way of carefully and thoroughly observing nature while using consistent logic to evaluate the results. How the results are used is determined by the morality of those using it. What we want to know is if the ideology itself, the process of learning about nature, harbors inherit evil, as the process of leaning about god via religion does.

Remember heis, science can't just ignore the negative aspects of it. This man would be considered a hero if he killed one crazed nazi. But people would just ignore the 50 other innocent people that were inthe way. In society using nuclear weapons is not misuse and you can't just cross that out and say that science still doesn't have a misuse just because you don't want to acknowledge that fact. (sorry if my post sounds angry or dickish )

 

[Heisenberg]

Remember heis, science can't just ignore the negative aspects of it. This man would be considered a hero if he killed one crazed nazi. But people would just ignore the 50 other innocent people that were inthe way.

Is the problem here science? Did the scientific method encourage the death of these 50 people? What if we gave them nuclear reactors instead? Does evil still exist due to science?

In society using nuclear weapons is not misuse and you can't just cross that out and say that science still doesn't have a misuse just because you don't want to acknowledge that fact. (sorry if my post sounds angry or dickish )

Well what I said is that science does have misuses, like anything. I said the scope of this thread is not concerned with misuse, as the possibility for misuse is a trait shared by practically anything. That is not to say science or people should not be concerned with the misuse of knowledge, only to say that is a topic for another thread. I also acknowledged that this type of evil, misuse of religion, is not the fault of religion at all.

An example of misuse of religion would be evangelists that take old peoples money and leave them to live in poverty. As much as we can find evil commands in scripture, no where does it say to scam old people for their money, so this is a misuse. I am careful not to criticize religious ideology for this misuse, just as you should be careful not to criticize science for similar misuse.

 

[Hepheastus420]

Is the problem here science? Did the scientific method encourage the death of these 50 people? What if we gave them nuclear reactors instead? Does evil still exist due to science?



Well what I said is that science does have misuses, like anything. I said the scope of this thread is not concerned with misuse, as the possibility for misuse is a trait shared by practically anything. That is not to say science or people should not be concerned with the misuse of knowledge, only to say that is a topic for another thread. I also acknowledged that this type of evil, misuse of religion, is not the fault of religion at all.

An example of misuse of religion would be evangelists that take old peoples money and leave them to live in poverty. As much as we can find evil commands in scripture, no where does it say to scam old people for their money, so this is a misuse. I am careful not to criticize religious ideology for this misuse, just as you should be careful not to criticize science for similar misuse.

Alright I'm tired and blazed and confused, ha. But I think I get what you're saying now. IMO you're saying that people misuse religion (I agree) and you're saying that people misuse science (I agree) so what is it that we are debating over? Oh yeah, honestly I can't think of anything that causes a good person to do bad things from science. But can you explain to me where in religion a good person does bad things but is still considered good? But remember we pointed out that people that kill are actually bad and no longer good.

 

[olylifter420]

Ok heis, what about the medical reseaech hitler would do on pow's? This athiesitic driven scientific research was done in the name of nazi science, yet it still is science and they followed the scientific method that you mentioned.

This is science driven by hatred towards religious jewish people. The atrocities they did are a prime examplle of atheisms negative aspect of hatred.

 

[ginjawarrior]

Ok heis, what about the medical reseaech hitler would do on pow's? This athiesitic driven scientific research was done in the name of nazi science, yet it still is science and they followed the scientific method that you mentioned.

This is science driven by hatred towards religious jewish people. The atrocities they did are a prime examplle of atheisms negative aspect of hatred.

i thought they were a perfect example of the negativity of the human race hardly something you blame on atheism...

and your having to dig quite far back for any sort of result there 65+ years ago?

i wonder just how many i could pull up agaisnt religion for last 10 years ..?

 

[Luger187]

If your saying that I am smart enough to think more rationally than I do(in your opinion) then thanks again. I just simply believe there is a god and enjoy looking towards Jesus as an example (kinda like what would Jesus do, ha), therefore I follow my religion.

why not just treat people right by yourself? why do you need jesus to tell you how to do it?

But see the thing is that I believe religion doesn't cause any negativity in my life so it's all just positive, at least for me.

religion changed your life on 9/11. your political system is totally controlled by religion.
it may be positive to you because you only follow selected parts of the bible, dont go to church, and actually know some things about science. but a lot of people in the world dont. they can follow any parts of the bible their culture sees fit. if its the stuff that allows them to kill sinners/unbelievers, so be it. they go to churches(and the like) to be told what the sciptures mean. and the majority of people in the world know almost nothing about science, but they know god did it all. crazy, right?

I do however understand that alot of people abuse religion or use it to justify their negative actions.

not only is it justification, but they usually see the actions as righteous too. they must do it because god wants it.

I would like to say that I do not agree with them and hope that they actually drop their religion since it just causes to much negativity in their own lives.

they believe in their religion just like you do. would it be easy for you to just quit your religion? we have shown you all these negative things your religion creates, yet you still believe. why should they?

they dont see those negatives as coming from their religion. they see the religion as stopping more harm from coming to them. this makes them believe whole-heartedly, and causes them to take drastic actions to please god, and hopefully bring more positive to their life. by committing these actions(killing, etc.), the person thinks they are actually creating peace because the person being killed is a sinner and god wants them dead. there is a lot of psychology involved.

Besides if their killing in the name of their god or anything else negative then most likely they are being hypocrites. Unless they are worshiping an evil god then that person is evil no matter what.

how are they hypocrites? their holy book is TELLING THEM to kill sinners(for example).
someone does not have to be evil to worship an 'evil god'. it all depends on where they were born and how they were taught. also, what dictates what is evil or not? there are MANY 'evil' things in the bible, yet a lot of people would say im crazy for saying that.

 

[Luger187]

Hey guys how can we get rid of music? I want to get rid if music because my own son has been listening to alot of lip Wayne and is becoming more and more depressed and rebelious everyday. I believe that the music industry has too much influence over our youth. It teaches them too rebel against us. I mean lil Wayne is his and a large majority of his friends idol but check these lyrics out.
A young nigga screaming fuck the world and let 'em die
Behind tints, tryna' duck the world and smoking rie
Got my bandanna 'round my head and pants to my feet
And got my eyes fire red and glock on my seat
I'm tryna' stay under intoxication
'Cause I lost my father, and got a daughter, plus I'm on probation
I'm drinking liquor like it's water, getting pissy drunk
And staying away from them lil' broads that trying to give me some
I keep a chopper in the trunk and my heat on my wasteline
Ducking the law, 'cause I ain't tryna' do no FED time
Sometimes I just wish I could be away
But I gotta take care of Reginae and keep macita straight
So I just maintain the struggle and I keep trying
But how can I when my closest people keep dyin'
I ain't lying that the law tryna' bust my clique
But I scream fuck the world man, I'm too young for this


These are very negative lyrics and I do not appreciate them. I believe we should kick music off of shows like MTV. What is your opinion on this?

again, lil wayne isnt telling people they must commit those acts or something bad will happen. music is an art form and should be viewed as such. a painting of someone stabbing someone else does not make you want to kill someone

 

[olylifter420]

By your logic, then you should side by believers. Atheists have to dig into the bible which goes back thoudands of years.

Im not blaming their atheism, just pointing out major atheists in our past history. While these athrists arguing here always turn the other cheek when asked the aforementioned questions

i thought they were a perfect example of the negativity of the human race hardly something you blame on atheism...

and your having to dig quite far back for any sort of result there 65+ years ago?

i wonder just how many i could pull up agaisnt religion for last 10 years ..?

 

[Luger187]

Ok heis, what about the medical reseaech hitler would do on pow's? This athiesitic driven scientific research was done in the name of nazi science, yet it still is science and they followed the scientific method that you mentioned.

This is science driven by hatred towards religious jewish people. The atrocities they did are a prime examplle of atheisms negative aspect of hatred.

where in the scientific method does it say its okay to do that? what people do with science is up to them. like heis said, science is a systematic way of carefully and thoroughly observing nature while using consistent logic to evaluate the results. there is nothing inherit in science that persuades people to commit evil things.
religion on the other hand uses the words of scripture itself to commit the evil acts. people read in their holy book that god says its okay to kill homosexuals, so they go out and do it.

 

[Luger187]

By your logic, then you should side by believers. Atheists have to dig into the bible which goes back thoudands of years.

Im not blaming their atheism, just pointing out major atheists in our past history. While these athrists arguing here always turn the other cheek when asked the aforementioned questions

or we can give examples of acts committed by religious people that were evil. citing scriptures isnt the only thing we have against religion.
-9/11
-the attack yesterday that injured 77 soldiers and killed a few afghanies, including a 3 year old girl. its not a confirmed religious person, but without a doubt it probably is.
-oslo bombing
-warren jeffs
-jonestown

 

[ginjawarrior]

By your logic, then you should side by believers. Atheists have to dig into the bible which goes back thoudands of years.

Im not blaming their atheism, just pointing out major atheists in our past history. While these athrists arguing here always turn the other cheek when asked the aforementioned questions

my logic and dig back to the bible to find bad examples of religion??

[youtube]zbDu0-K9cPk[/youtube]
cause its the words in what ever age old book scribbled by whatever cave man thats the problem not the modern adherents right?

i guess your right its really hard to find things that are happening now to show "negativity in religion"

Ok heis, what about the medical reseaech hitler would do on pow's? This athiesitic driven scientific research was done in the name of nazi science, yet it still is science and they followed the scientific method that you mentioned.

This is science driven by hatred towards religious jewish people. The atrocities they did are a prime examplle of atheisms negative aspect of hatred.

sure had me fooled

 

[tyler.durden]

Ok heis, what about the medical reseaech hitler would do on pow's? This athiesitic driven scientific research was done in the name of nazi science, yet it still is science and they followed the scientific method that you mentioned.

This is science driven by hatred towards religious jewish people. The atrocities they did are a prime examplle of atheisms negative aspect of hatred.

Hitler was a christian (raised catholic), which was (in part) the genesis of his antisemitism. You say atheism-driven research, but there is no indication that atheism had anything to do with it. Even if they were atheist, they were not doing these evil deeds IN THE NAME OF ATHEISM (lack of belief), where as religious evil is often done IN THE NAME OF RELIGION. Not to mention that the Third Reich was very close to a religion in it's own right, but I won't digress...

 

[sen.c]

-9/11
-the attack yesterday that injured 77 soldiers and killed a few afghanies, including a 3 year old girl. its not a confirmed religious person, but without a doubt it probably is.
-oslo bombing
-warren jeffs
-jonestown

Religion can be anything, what if they did it because Ronald McDonald told them to would that qualify as a religion?

Hitler was a christian (raised catholic), which was (in part) the genesis of his antisemitism. You say atheism-driven research, but there is no indication that atheism had anything to do with it. Even if they were atheist, they were not doing these evil deeds IN THE NAME OF ATHEISM (lack of belief), where as religious evil is often done IN THE NAME OF RELIGION. Not to mention that the Third Reich was very close to a religion in it's own right, but I won't digress...

Sorry but I have to disagree, Everything Hitler did was in the name of Eugenics and Darwinism by trying to forward the evolution of the German race into the perfect specimen. In his efforts to move evolution along he killed all people that were thought to be other than his idea of what the perfect German race should be. This in no way has the slightest thing to do with Christianity. Actualy Nazi soliders were not allowed to believe in God and were told that you were either Christian or German and you could not be both. Also Mein Kamph replaced the Bible by Hitlers demand as the religion of the Nazi war machine.

Being raised as something doesn't mean that you actualy are that, if you look back in history most of your crazed dictators and leaders throughout Europe at this time were raised Roman Catholic. Anyone can break the ties that bind them and this is just the evidence to prove it.

 

[Luger187]

Religion can be anything, what if they did it because Ronald McDonald told them to would that qualify as a religion?

if they believed ronald mcdonald was a prophet of some kind, or god himself, yes. if mcdonalds started making commercials with ronald in it telling people to hurt others, that wouldnt be a religion. it would just be telling people to commit an act

 

[mindphuk]

Religion can be anything, what if they did it because Ronald McDonald told them to would that qualify as a religion?



Sorry but I have to disagree, Everything Hitler did was in the name of Eugenics and Darwinism by trying to forward the evolution of the German race into the perfect specimen.

Eugenics is not Darwinism. Darwin proposed a mechanism for how evolution occurred, the combination of variation and natural selection. Evolution has no goal, eugenics does. Evolution is not pretty, is not gentle, is not kind, is not compassionate, is not loving. Evolution is blind, and brutal, and callous. It is not an aspiration or a blueprint to live up to, it is simply what happens, the blind, inexorable forces of nature at work. Attempting to link Darwin and Hitler displays either your ignorance or guile.

In his efforts to move evolution along he killed all people that were thought to be other than his idea of what the perfect German race should be. This in no way has the slightest thing to do with Christianity.

Agreed, but no one claimed it did. Likewise it has nothing to do with Darwin, evolution or atheism.

Actualy Nazi soliders were not allowed to believe in God and were told that you were either Christian or German and you could not be both. Also Mein Kamph replaced the Bible by Hitlers demand as the religion of the Nazi war machine.

Sounds like he fostered a type of national religion. No, it wasn't Christianity but being a religion, it certainly wasn't atheistic either.