Homemade Under Current

[lordjin]

Totally believe you on that one, I will seriously look into getting one. Tonight, I had to pull the stones and put a toothbrush to them to get a flow back. Nova is some thick, gummy shit. I see those pumps everywhere on here, they sound crazy in the videos too. How large is the one above?

this is the smaller, six outlet, 'junior' model. You don't need the bigger one, believe me. It's a rather compact unit, but its solid, heavy metal housing will let you know right away the difference between this commercial pump and the common residential aquarium pump. Those aquarium type pumps are notorious for losing pressure after prolonged use, too...while the commercial keeps blasting the same 45 liters per minute of oxygen every time your plug it in. It's a loud, vibrating demon, but if you're gonna grow, why not go all the way, huh?

You using Nova, huh? That's what I used on my first grow before switching to flora (dissolves better, you can tweak ratios more). Yeah, that Nova is clumpy and runs kinda dirty imo. On my very first grow, my cheap aquarium pump failed and the roots got massively coated with that brown gunk. It was ugly, but the harvest wasn't bad for first timer screw up grow.

Not even gunky Nova can stop this air pump, though. Nothing can.

Oh, btw. You are running a very high ppm, sir. If you run more oxy, your plants will do just as well (better) with lower ppms, cutting down on gunk buildup from overly high concentrations of nute.

 

[Hobgoblit]

this is the smaller, six outlet, 'junior' model. You don't need the bigger one, believe me. It's a rather compact unit, but its solid, heavy metal housing will let you know right away the difference between this commercial pump and the common residential aquarium pump. Those aquarium type pumps are notorious for losing pressure after prolonged use, too...while the commercial keeps blasting the same 45 liters per minute of oxygen every time your plug it in. It's a loud, vibrating demon, but if you're gonna grow, why not go all the way, huh?

You using Nova, huh? That's what I used on my first grow before switching to flora (dissolves better, you can tweak ratios more). Yeah, that Nova is clumpy and runs kinda dirty imo. On my very first grow, my cheap aquarium pump failed and the roots got massively coated with that brown gunk. It was ugly, but the harvest wasn't bad for first timer screw up grow.

Not even gunky Nova can stop this air pump, though. Nothing can.

I'll make a run in the morning for some new stones. Can't get the pump now, but it's on my list. I do have the Flora series I could switch to, but I'm so early into flower I'm not sure if that would stress them out too much. Any thoughts on that?

 

[lordjin]

I'll make a run in the morning for some new stones. Can't get the pump now, but it's on my list. I do have the Flora series I could switch to, but I'm so early into flower I'm not sure if that would stress them out too much. Any thoughts on that?

Man, that's a tough question. I'm not sure. Any thought would be pure conjecture. That might be one for a GH rep or a Hydro shop person.

 

[Hobgoblit]

Man, that's a tough question. I'm not sure. Any thought would be pure conjecture. That might be one for a GH rep or a Hydro shop person.

Yeah, I'm not gonna bother right now. I'll just buy a couple sets of stones and keep an eye on em, not having issues. For shits and giggles though, I would think that as long as I was close to the same ratio as the Nova Bloom I'd be ok. Haven't been stressing them, so they could probably handle it. In theory. lol BTW, loving the avatar, #2 needs to stop.

 

[lordjin]

Yeah, I'm not gonna bother right now. I'll just buy a couple sets of stones and keep an eye on em, not having issues. For shits and giggles though, I would think that as long as I was close to the same ratio as the Nova Bloom I'd be ok. Haven't been stressing them, so they could probably handle it. In theory. lol BTW, loving the avatar, #2 needs to stop.

Number two is an online Fetish modeling super star named Mosh. Google her for much more.

Yeah, just stick to the plan. Switch to the Flora micro next time with a new grow.

 

[Hobgoblit]

Good advice, thanks.

 

[UnderCurrentDWC]

For my UC grow I purchased a 185w 180lpm air pump to power 9 airstones, In the mean time I used it for my veg totes till I received the General Hydroponics Dual Diaphragm pumps I ordered. I've now been running the GH air pumps for 10 days and I can say I'll be replacing the 185w pump with 9 GH air pump 1 per tote. The reason is the "duel diaphragm!"... It's way more efficient!.... It's rated at 20lpm at 8w!!!..WOW!!!....Thats over twice as efficient than my commercial pump. Another advantage is "HEAT"... My large Comercial pump gets so hot it needs a separate fan to cool it off (more cash) also it rises the temps in my Rez. The GH? cool to the touch!.. but the best thing of all is the "Quiet" when I walk into my veg room now, It's so Zen!
The Gh air pumps are not cheep but well worth the money, for something that I need to run 24/7 I figure it's worth spending a few extra bucks to save a few bucks in the long run with electricity bills, Hell!... it might even pay for itself!

 

[mr.bond]

I have both the Hydrofarm air pump that lordjin showed us, and also the GH dual-diaphragm. Pros and cons to both. The Hydrofarm unit puts out more air, has 6 outlets, but is also loud and the output air is warm (its not that loud though). The GH dual-diaphgram puts out a good amount of air with 1-2 ports open, the air output is cool, these are more efficient as UC said, pretty darn quiet, but when all 4 ports are open the pressure can be a bit low.

In regards specifically to UC/RDWC setups, I have heard that having the return line 'waterfall' back into the rez is the best part of a UC system, creating tremendous amounts of DO in the liquid while it is circulated throughout. In some of the manufactured UC systems I've seen out there, the diagrams show an air line that runs from the air pump output directly into the water pump outlet line, injecting air into the liquid stream before it goes back into the rez. I'm curious if this is actually necessary. It seems a bit redundant if you're waterfalling on the return plus airstones in each bucket and the rez.

cheers
mr.bond

EDIT: ok the Hydrofarm air pump is actually VERY loud ... but only if you dont have any hoses hooked up to it... when you hook them up you lose like 80% of the sound.

 

[mr.bond]

I don't use any kind of return filter. But could use one. Please share if you have some info on it.

check out woodsman's latest UC thread... he's using 30gal drums as plant buckets... LOL awesome!!! some monsters!!
https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/451388-biggest-rdwc-system-you-ever.html

in that first picture you will see the in-line return filter i mentioned. he has two in that pic, a regular style one, and a huge one for his 4" pipe or whatever massive size hes getting into. lol makes sense though... it sure would suck to get a hydroton pebble sucked up into your water pump. i think they sell the regular ones at most hardware stores. guess its not as necessary as i thought if you guys are running ok without one. although i dont think i would use Ancient Forest in my tea without one of the filters.

cheers
mr.bond

 

[mr.bond]

Hob,

Since you are using a cooler for your rez, did you just use a normal uniseal or grommet? i ask because im planning out my parts list and was thinking that perhaps the thick wall of certain coolers might be TOO thick. i have a decent heavy duty rez now but was thinking that a cooler would be nicer to help with temperature management.

my original idea was to do round 5gal buckets as plant pots, all linked to a 27gal control rez, and have a 27gal top-off rez of fresh water. my concern with using the round 5gal buckets is leaking, i dont know how the uniseal would take to a rounded surface. ideally i would like to do 12 buckets, but im not sure the best way to configure the pipes and link it all up. i could settle on 6...

i wish i could find some square buckets, 5gal or larger. something like 7-8-gal would be ideal i think, with 2" pipe. i know they exist but not sure how to get them. i was even thinking of using those 27gal totes for each plant site. LOL would be great for root growth, but i dont think they would be able to take advantage of it with just 1x 1000w.

what about water pump sizing, know any juicy details for picking the right size? thanks hob...

mr.bond

 

[UnderCurrentDWC]

The best and cheapest place I could find for uniseals is Bulkreefsuply.com http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/2-uniseal-bulkhead-alternative.html#

Uniseals have no problem with curved surfaces like buckets, as you can see in this pic they work well even on extreme curvatures.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjlH8JkUz0Q&feature=player_embedded

5 Gallon square buckets. http://www.uline.com/BL_8172/Square-Pails?keywords=plastic_containers

 

[UnderCurrentDWC]

I just did some rough math on the power consumption between my two air pumps.
The commercial pump using 185w per hour producing 180Lpm will use
4,440w/day
133,200w/month
1,598,400w/year
at $.15/w that = $239.85/year to run

The General Hydroponics Duel Diaphragm air pump @ 8w/hour x 9 air pumps producing 180Lpm will use
1,728w/day
51,840w/month
622,080w/year
@ $.15/w that = $93.45/year to run

That's a savings of $146.40 per year

If the GH air pump costs $50/pump x 9= $450 The commercial pump cost me $150, price difference is $300. After running the pump 2 years it pays for the difference in cost and anything after that is pure money in my pocket. I'm also not taking into account the added cost of running a fan to cool off my large pump as well.

 

[lordjin]

The best and cheapest place I could find for uniseals is Bulkreefsuply.com http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/2-uniseal-bulkhead-alternative.html#

Uniseals have no problem with curved surfaces like buckets, as you can see in this pic they work well even on extreme curvatures.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjlH8JkUz0Q&feature=player_embedded

5 Gallon square buckets. http://www.uline.com/BL_8172/Square-Pails?keywords=plastic_containers

I like this. Great info. Thanks!

 

[Hobgoblit]

For my UC grow I purchased a 185w 180lpm air pump to power 9 airstones, In the mean time I used it for my veg totes till I received the General Hydroponics Dual Diaphragm pumps I ordered. I've now been running the GH air pumps for 10 days and I can say I'll be replacing the 185w pump with 9 GH air pump 1 per tote. The reason is the "duel diaphragm!"... It's way more efficient!.... It's rated at 20lpm at 8w!!!..WOW!!!....Thats over twice as efficient than my commercial pump. Another advantage is "HEAT"... My large Comercial pump gets so hot it needs a separate fan to cool it off (more cash) also it rises the temps in my Rez. The GH? cool to the touch!.. but the best thing of all is the "Quiet" when I walk into my veg room now, It's so Zen!
The Gh air pumps are not cheep but well worth the money, for something that I need to run 24/7 I figure it's worth spending a few extra bucks to save a few bucks in the long run with electricity bills, Hell!... it might even pay for itself!

Edit...Ran a test, with a bucket, pvc and a tap, not such a good idea...don't try this.

I have both the Hydrofarm air pump that lordjin showed us, and also the GH dual-diaphragm. Pros and cons to both. The Hydrofarm unit puts out more air, has 6 outlets, but is also loud and the output air is warm (its not that loud though). The GH dual-diaphgram puts out a good amount of air with 1-2 ports open, the air output is cool, these are more efficient as UC said, pretty darn quiet, but when all 4 ports are open the pressure can be a bit low.

In regards specifically to UC/RDWC setups, I have heard that having the return line 'waterfall' back into the rez is the best part of a UC system, creating tremendous amounts of DO in the liquid while it is circulated throughout. In some of the manufactured UC systems I've seen out there, the diagrams show an air line that runs from the air pump output directly into the water pump outlet line, injecting air into the liquid stream before it goes back into the rez. I'm curious if this is actually necessary. It seems a bit redundant if you're waterfalling on the return plus airstones in each bucket and the rez.

cheers
mr.bond

EDIT: ok the Hydrofarm air pump is actually VERY loud ... but only if you dont have any hoses hooked up to it... when you hook them up you lose like 80% of the sound.

Probably will get 2 of the GH pumps for next grow since I'm downsizing to 2 pots. For now, since my options are limited, I'll take the 3 dual pumps I have and put 1 in each pot, leaving the empty pot and rez without any. For my rez, I can add an extension and T to my return to get a rise above the water so it waterfalls. Like in the pic. I included a pic of the pump I have also.


As for the air line in the return, that question sparked a great idea. But first I want to talk about your Q. It's just a check valve to stop water backflow and a tap in the line, no airstone. I imagine it dumps a load of air in the line, which is the reason for all the standing bubbles you see in UC reservoirs. Which leads me back to my idea. Since I'm using pvc, couldn't I tap between the pots in the 1 inch flow lines and use this same technique to introduce air into the flow and return. This would do a way better job of introducing DO, and would do away with airstones all together. Hmmm, what do you think?

 

[Hobgoblit]

For my UC grow I purchased a 185w 180lpm air pump to power 9 airstones, In the mean time I used it for my veg totes till I received the General Hydroponics Dual Diaphragm pumps I ordered. I've now been running the GH air pumps for 10 days and I can say I'll be replacing the 185w pump with 9 GH air pump 1 per tote. The reason is the "duel diaphragm!"... It's way more efficient!.... It's rated at 20lpm at 8w!!!..WOW!!!....Thats over twice as efficient than my commercial pump. Another advantage is "HEAT"... My large Comercial pump gets so hot it needs a separate fan to cool it off (more cash) also it rises the temps in my Rez. The GH? cool to the touch!.. but the best thing of all is the "Quiet" when I walk into my veg room now, It's so Zen!
The Gh air pumps are not cheep but well worth the money, for something that I need to run 24/7 I figure it's worth spending a few extra bucks to save a few bucks in the long run with electricity bills, Hell!... it might even pay for itself!

check out woodsman's latest UC thread... he's using 30gal drums as plant buckets... LOL awesome!!! some monsters!!
https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/451388-biggest-rdwc-system-you-ever.html

in that first picture you will see the in-line return filter i mentioned. he has two in that pic, a regular style one, and a huge one for his 4" pipe or whatever massive size hes getting into. lol makes sense though... it sure would suck to get a hydroton pebble sucked up into your water pump. i think they sell the regular ones at most hardware stores. guess its not as necessary as i thought if you guys are running ok without one. although i dont think i would use Ancient Forest in my tea without one of the filters.

cheers
mr.bond

Yep, subbed up yesterday, that dude is awesome, constantly tries to get better, grow bigger, never satisfied. Same way I am. UnderCurrentDWC posted his DIY system a little back in this thread with a return filter on it just like the big one, not sure if you saw it. Very good idea. I will be looking into one soon.

 

[Hobgoblit]

Hob,

Since you are using a cooler for your rez, did you just use a normal uniseal or grommet? i ask because im planning out my parts list and was thinking that perhaps the thick wall of certain coolers might be TOO thick. i have a decent heavy duty rez now but was thinking that a cooler would be nicer to help with temperature management.

my original idea was to do round 5gal buckets as plant pots, all linked to a 27gal control rez, and have a 27gal top-off rez of fresh water. my concern with using the round 5gal buckets is leaking, i dont know how the uniseal would take to a rounded surface. ideally i would like to do 12 buckets, but im not sure the best way to configure the pipes and link it all up. i could settle on 6...

i wish i could find some square buckets, 5gal or larger. something like 7-8-gal would be ideal i think, with 2" pipe. i know they exist but not sure how to get them. i was even thinking of using those 27gal totes for each plant site. LOL would be great for root growth, but i dont think they would be able to take advantage of it with just 1x 1000w.

what about water pump sizing, know any juicy details for picking the right size? thanks hob...

mr.bond

The wall of any cooler is going to be thin plastic filled with insulation, so you have to think about that. I used a hole saw and drilled through it all, being careful to stay straight when going through the insulation and starting the inside hole. Your pipe will be crooked if you don't drill straight through. Next I took the 1 inch pipe I cut and inserted it into the hole with about 2 inches protruding from either side, and filled the cavity around it with silicone, just inside the wall on both sides. Then a little baby oil on the grommets, pipe surfaces, and cooler walls, and i just took a butter knife and worked the grommets into the walls. I cut the walls a little small and used a dremel to expand them slowly to fit the grommet, no sense in screwing it up. Take your time. Also, the cooler I got had a drain plug with a cap in the bottom for emptying water out. I took 2, 1/2 inch irrigation fittings and PVC glued one on the inside into the drain, and the other from the outside into the drain making my return. Also went around the inside grommet with a small amount of silicone to make sure it stayed sealed.
The ends of my pots are curved slightly, but not as much as a bucket curves. I used 2 PVC connectors that screw together with a rubber drain washer for the pots. The washer I used is raised in the middle, and the PVC screws up tight, pushing the raised part and sealing the pot. I used silicone also. Guessing the pot would crack before the seal does. Never used uniseal, and the 1 inch grommets can be found at Lowes, find an associate and ask them where the specialty connection and rubber washer area is, usually in what looks like a huge toolbox full of everything from washers, grommets, plugs, etc.
One pointer for you when picking all your pots out. The more water you have to run through this system basically means more nutrients to get the PPM's up. And last time I checked, nutes are expensive. So try to stay low as you can in profile, you still need to get up to the net pots with the water. So imagine 6 27 gallon totes full up to the net pots. That's alot of nutrients. My advice, make a list of every store that sells buckets, and make a day of it. Don't sweat the color, HVAC tape will work for blocking light. My Pump is by Ecoplus, 200gph, and has an inlet and an outlet. Really depends on your pipe size, mine is good, and I run it half speed. Hope I got to all of it, if not let me know.

 

[lordjin]

I have both the Hydrofarm air pump that lordjin showed us, and also the GH dual-diaphragm. Pros and cons to both. The Hydrofarm unit puts out more air, has 6 outlets, but is also loud and the output air is warm (its not that loud though). The GH dual-diaphgram puts out a good amount of air with 1-2 ports open, the air output is cool, these are more efficient as UC said, pretty darn quiet, but when all 4 ports are open the pressure can be a bit low.

In regards specifically to UC/RDWC setups, I have heard that having the return line 'waterfall' back into the rez is the best part of a UC system, creating tremendous amounts of DO in the liquid while it is circulated throughout. In some of the manufactured UC systems I've seen out there, the diagrams show an air line that runs from the air pump output directly into the water pump outlet line, injecting air into the liquid stream before it goes back into the rez. I'm curious if this is actually necessary. It seems a bit redundant if you're waterfalling on the return plus airstones in each bucket and the rez.

cheers
mr.bond

EDIT: ok the Hydrofarm air pump is actually VERY loud ... but only if you dont have any hoses hooked up to it... when you hook them up you lose like 80% of the sound.

Interesting. I didn't realize that thing was pumping hot air. Good thing my external chiller works like a soldier.

Yes, it's loud as hell. No getting around that. The best thing I can recommend is setting it on a cinder block as I have done. It absorbs the vibration nicely through the rubber feet, minimizing the sound. It's still loud, but with this thing, you gotta do all you can to absorb its vibration.

 

[Hobgoblit]

Nice info and link, thanks. Never actually heard of Uniseal.

 

[Hobgoblit]

Well, this evening I moved the pumps, 1 per pot. Added new stones and they took off, so I'm happy with that. The extension and T in my reservoir actually creates alot of bubbles, was really surprised. Still sitting @ 1350, they look happy, nice and frosty.

 

[Hobgoblit]

A few pictures from tonight...Having to supercrop a few.