Anyone using Advanced Nutrients full Grandmaster line?
- Thread starter NoBarriers
- Start date
hooked.on.ponics
Well-Known Member
The whole "nutes are nutes" thing is naive.
For one thing there is (or at least there should be) a major difference between soil nutes and hydroponics nutes. In soil its perfectly fine to use urea-based sources of nitrogen whereas you absolutely should NOT do that in hydroponics. Why? The soil web.
In soil the various microbial life that makes up the soil web will break down urea-based fertilizers into forms that plants can actually use. If you use those types of fertilizers in hydroponics your plants get little to no benefit from that source of nitrogen. They can't use it. You either have to use a more expensive non-urea source of nitrogen or you have to process the urea-based nitrogen before bottling so that it's ready for the hydroponic environment.
And this is just one way that makes different nutrients very different from each other. Chelates, buffers, and dozens of different factors like that make for nutes that are radically different from each other.
It's easy to call something overpriced when you don't understand the cost or work that goes into making it better than what is incorrectly believed to be a comparable product.
For one thing there is (or at least there should be) a major difference between soil nutes and hydroponics nutes. In soil its perfectly fine to use urea-based sources of nitrogen whereas you absolutely should NOT do that in hydroponics. Why? The soil web.
In soil the various microbial life that makes up the soil web will break down urea-based fertilizers into forms that plants can actually use. If you use those types of fertilizers in hydroponics your plants get little to no benefit from that source of nitrogen. They can't use it. You either have to use a more expensive non-urea source of nitrogen or you have to process the urea-based nitrogen before bottling so that it's ready for the hydroponic environment.
And this is just one way that makes different nutrients very different from each other. Chelates, buffers, and dozens of different factors like that make for nutes that are radically different from each other.
It's easy to call something overpriced when you don't understand the cost or work that goes into making it better than what is incorrectly believed to be a comparable product.
i have looked at the whole sale catalog in the hydro store i go to. the guy who works there showed it to me. Advanced Nutrients has the highest markup from the whole sale to the msrp. they overcharge for their products to pay for their marketing. it has little to do with their production cost and more to do with the humongous overhead their marketing department generates. its good business.
budleydoright
Well-Known Member
As a general rule of thumb. Those that make the most noise about being the best, are the best at marketing. Those who quitely create are the one who drive innovation.
that is partly correct. you must look at the other side of the coin. if you have a great product but no one knows about it then the value of your product is useful. you want your product to be known but you dont want to tell people how good it is you want your customers telling people. now you can do that by making a great product and/or making great advertising that brainwashes your customers. Advanced Nutrients does both and that is why they are so successful. also their products will produce, not necessarily a %43 increas but they will make great buds. it is just possible to do the same thing with other products. some of their products are really great and worth what they ask for it. personally i use Bud Candy. now i could use something like sweet or humboldt honey, etc. but i find that BC really does give me the best results out of all the sweeteners i have used. but would i ever use rhino skin (silica) when i can get silica blast from botanicare for 1/3 of the price?
budleydoright
Well-Known Member
Do like their ph up/down.... lot's of value there. I'm not hating on AN, but their advertising does insult my intelligence. C'mon reading rosebud is like watching fox news. while there's some entertainment value, anything that is presented as educational ends up with you at their cash register.
CR500ROOST
Well-Known Member
i have never used them but the price sounds like a rip off to me.i would try out dyna gro before them.
why would i give a shit about what a vegetarian has to say about meat?
haulinbass
Well-Known Member
you guys are fucked, dont like a product dont buy it. why some make it their personal mission to steer everyone to what they find best is beyond me. I use AN, would i use their entire line up? no, but i like sensi mixed with vita boost or big bud. voodoo juice is the shit in a TLO grow but youd be foolish to use it with synthetic cleating salts. my plants are healthy, happy and yeild great and ive used 200 worth of nutes in three grows under my 1000. Maybe i could grow more by switching but will it be worth the learning curve switching brands? the way i see it everyones free to use what they want because basicly all the top brands are all good shit and if anything its you that will fuck something up. That being said a comparison between two brands is useless unless its both blind and the user has the same experience level with both. your test did show that switching brands wasnt going to change the world and its always best to stick with what you know.
Total Head
Well-Known Member
a lot of people just find it gut-wrenching to see people get swindled and are trying to help. if someone was walking and texting and about to step in front of a moving bus would you warn them or just watch? if people are buying products based on marketing and not knowledge they are in a way helping to dumb down the community because many newbs falsely believe that their "magic nutes" are the sole reason why they grew good pot and they pass that info along. i'm not going to preach about nutes and whatnot but i will say that most of the people with fucked up plants are (in my observation) the ones who are freaking out about whether they followed some crazy ass feed chart with 75 products on it. i'm not saying the expensive nutes are bad at all, i'm just saying that they make people with lesser knowledge get the wrong idea about what the plants need. i.e. "this product was created for cannabis. this product contains fairy dust. therefore i must need fairy dust to grow great pot" it just gets hard to watch sometimes but i hear you on the "to each his own" deal.
yes this site is about information sharing. a lot of the strong opinions originate because we wish someone had come along and told us the same thing when we didnt know anything. growing can be so personal because we all see the plant as our own and we get offended when we see it mistreated. we must defend the plants when no one else will.
hooked.on.ponics
Well-Known Member
If you look at advertising and believe it all, you're an idiot.
If you look at advertising and disbelieve it all, you're simply another kind of idiot.
Yes, Advanced Nutrients will try to sell you things they make. But so would any decent company. If they're "better" or "worse" at marketing (which has a good amount of personal preference thrown in to the judging of that) is completely independent from the worth of their product.
I am definitely not a fan of the marketing methods used in those late-night infomercials ("BILLY MAYS MODE" is equally annoying on television as it is online) but I have used a few infomercial products that led me to the conclusion that some of them are very cool. What's the ratio of stupid-crap-to-get-your-money and genuinely useful products? I don't know exactly and I don't care to speculate. The point is that annoying (or excellent) marketing doesn't make what's being sold good or bad.
Those Quiznos singing rodent commercials made me want to set fire their headquarters. Their sandwiches are great (I'm more of a Jimmy John's guy, but Quiznos is fine), but the commercials inspired sadistic, homicidal urges.
You've got to take the advertising for what it's worth, which isn't much if you're already aware of the product. That's all it's for: to make people aware of a product and (hopefully) entice them to try it.
From there the smart people use or don't use it based on the product, not the advertising.
If you look at advertising and disbelieve it all, you're simply another kind of idiot.
Yes, Advanced Nutrients will try to sell you things they make. But so would any decent company. If they're "better" or "worse" at marketing (which has a good amount of personal preference thrown in to the judging of that) is completely independent from the worth of their product.
I am definitely not a fan of the marketing methods used in those late-night infomercials ("BILLY MAYS MODE" is equally annoying on television as it is online) but I have used a few infomercial products that led me to the conclusion that some of them are very cool. What's the ratio of stupid-crap-to-get-your-money and genuinely useful products? I don't know exactly and I don't care to speculate. The point is that annoying (or excellent) marketing doesn't make what's being sold good or bad.
Those Quiznos singing rodent commercials made me want to set fire their headquarters. Their sandwiches are great (I'm more of a Jimmy John's guy, but Quiznos is fine), but the commercials inspired sadistic, homicidal urges.
You've got to take the advertising for what it's worth, which isn't much if you're already aware of the product. That's all it's for: to make people aware of a product and (hopefully) entice them to try it.
From there the smart people use or don't use it based on the product, not the advertising.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
You didn't mention NPK or micro values nor do I think you know what's in the snake oils you're buying.
ahhhhhhhh, such easy prey.
As a perfect example, AN's Big Bud has no N, just crap (amino acids) that plants don't need (IF, you can believe the claims, amounts not stated nor plant requirements established). So, Big Bud=loss of leaves=lower yields=noobie screwjob
Cool lookin' dude on the label, sure to appeal to horticulturists world wide. http://www.advancednutrients.com/hydroponics/advancepedia/bloom-enhancers/big-bud-powder.php
haulinbass
Well-Known Member
yeah im easy prey and an idiot, do you guys feel better about yourselves? I make enough money in my real legal job that i dont give a shit if i spend 30 on some liqiud some would call watered down unsulfurer'd mollasses, its all fun in the end to me. and before you give me this patients crap, i am a legal patient in canada who is dieing of a brain tumor. you guys take this shit to personally its just a fucking plant, and ALL our liqiud synthetic nutes come from the same area in china and possibly the same factory.THEY ARE ALL toxic byproducts from other industries.
haulinbass
Well-Known Member
if i have a synthetic and living organic grow in the same room am i still such an idiot? There is no reason to be wound up about plant ferts, what ferts someone uses should be the last thing on someone elses mind. Even if your trying to help someone it makes little difference as the plant still shows signs the same way.
the pro growers usually get hooked up from AN so people like you will think exactly that^^^.
hellraizer30
Rebel From The North
ive had some incredible results with AN and im not geting hooked up
do you win cups? i think thats what he means by pro.ive had some incredible results with AN and im not geting hooked up