Germinating a seedling

[Kingrow1]

Alright so what if you are using a humidity dome and rapid rooter tray with a heat mat to germ? Mine is currently set at 83 degrees and only 2 broccoli plants have sprouted after 4 -5 days. I plan on letting things keep going but wondering why the inconsistency in things. I have romaine and some form of head lettuce as well as broccoli planted.

Is there an optimum temp needed for germ that I am missing? Optimum humidity level?

Lastly, and most importantly IMO, when do you go from no light in germ to either CFL or MH for veg? Is it as soon as it is sprouted or do you simply keep them under not-so-strong light until a certain point? I can PM you if that would be easier.

Why would you need all that just to germinate some seeds? I would only use a heat mat if temps dropped below 18 degrees celcius, probably then wait till a bit lower also at 83 degrees fareignheight your very close to 27 degrees celcius and starting to hit the upper limits of germination temps, maybe adjust the temps to a lower setting, start with 70 degrees fareignheight which is just over 19 degrees celcius and things should improve. I would have these items if i was germinating in a cold room.

Alright so what if you are using a humidity dome

Never liked the stupid things, normally unecessary for germination and clones, i find i get much better results without one. If temps arent that bad just try my method for the next batch, people have a habit of overcomplicating things but with seedling this usually results in failure.

Lastly, and most importantly IMO, when do you go from no light in germ to either CFL or MH for veg? Is it as soon as it is sprouted or do you simply keep them under not-so-strong light until a certain point?

As you can see it is benificial for me to germinate under the lights, the temps for veg plants is also very condusive to germination. My seeds always start under the lights allbeit to the side but after a day or two of breaking the surface they are normally able to take the light from my t5's at a few inches away, if the light is too strong the seedling will bend away from it to tell you. Wether you germinate in the light or dark makes no difference as long as when the first leaves show they get light, easiest is to germinate in your veg room.

I can PM you if that would be easier

No but by all means post some pics, threads pass on the knowledge where as private messages dont. Good luck though.

 

[smokedogg69]

oh yah 24 hours light till i put them outside. didnt have a timer lol. very low budget grow, look at the rewards! nutes when then look like they need it i waited till week 4 before any nutes. use miracle grow liquid w/micro nutes in it already and for flowering plant prod ultimate 15-30-15 w/micro nutes in it already

 

[Kingrow1]

View attachment 1810271View attachment 1810270this is 30 days from first day germinating.

At thirty days from germination im starting to offload plants from the veg room to flower room, somthing is wrong with your variables!

i put them in jiffy cups same as u kinggrow1, but have them in a dome, ur little grow room is basically a dome so cool

I dont use them and never will again they were more hassle than they are worth, humidity seems to be the least of my worries when cracking seeds and growing seedlings, a humidity meter would help you decide if the seedlings will make it or not in your environment, i suspect they will live without the humidity dome unless you live somewhere very dry like near a desert etc etc

with generic potting soil with perlite and other good things inside that a younge little plant may need. to nutes!

So you decided not to use the seedling soil and go with a soil that would hold enough nutes for a six foot plant, brave choice and now i see half your problems.

king ur little room need some kind of reflecting mateiral. black is not good for grow room walls titanic white is cheapest and best besides the expensive stiff made for reflecting light!

If you really want to but just how much reflected light do you think im gona get back from 22watt tubes that are over 6 inches from the walls at the closest point? Plus is not 40watt enough per square foot to grow 7inch plants. I like the way it looks so i might just forego these changes.

One or two other concerns are you are growing in a cardboard box with tin foil, scrap this and get some decent air flow over those seedlings like a fan or somthing. I grow in a light proof box so the local neighbour hood watch dont bust my door down on the assumption the excessively bright lights coming from my windows are to do with marijuana growing or illegal sunbeds, you however dont seem to have that problem with that low power light. Many changes but at least some positive results with the germination. Good luck also. Peace

 

[bump1987]

Why would you need all that just to germinate some seeds? I would only use a heat mat if temps dropped below 18 degrees celcius, probably then wait till a bit lower also at 83 degrees fareignheight your very close to 27 degrees celcius and starting to hit the upper limits of germination temps, maybe adjust the temps to a lower setting, start with 70 degrees fareignheight which is just over 19 degrees fareignheight and things should improve. I would have these items if i was germinating in a cold room.



Never liked the stupid things, normally unecessary for germination and clones, i find i get much better results without one. If temps arent that bad just try my method for the next batch, people have a habit of overcomplicating things but with seedling this usually results in failure.



As you can see it is benificial for me to germinate under the lights, the temps for veg plants is also very condusive to germination. My seeds always start under the lights allbeit to the side but after a day or two of breaking the surface they are normally able to take the light from my t5's at a few inches away, if the light is too strong the seedling will bend away from it to tell you. Wether you germinate in the light or dark makes no difference as long as when the first leaves show they get light, easiest is to germinate in your veg room.



No but by all means post some pics, threads pass on the knowledge where as private messages dont. Good luck though.

I guess its a good thing all this stuff was free LOL. Your using Pete Pellets, i'm using rapid rooters. Always heard/read that you should have a surrounding around your grow media be it pete pellets, rockwool, RRs...whatever so that the roots dont die off as the light hits them. I take it you don't bother with that idea as you transplant into soil as soon as you sprout? I don't understand the temperature deal though, I have used newspaper and paper towels soaked and folded over seeds to germinate and tape them to my scenic window at the house and all of them pop after a couple to a few days. Why is it that outside temps which i'm sure are higher than 80 can be handled there but not from my mat? I will end up going back to that route i'm guessing now as these seeds are taking longer and those were fairly trustworthy. I will use my RR tray to simply hold them until ready for the system.

If you put under light directly after sprouting, why do people argue that you should wait until roots are built up until you put them under lights? I'm talking 400w hps and not (2) 23 watt CFLs.

 

[Kingrow1]

I guess its a good thing all this stuff was free LOL. Your using Pete Pellets, i'm using rapid rooters. Always heard/read that you should have a surrounding around your grow media be it pete pellets, rockwool, RRs...whatever so that the roots dont die off as the light hits them. I take it you don't bother with that idea as you transplant into soil as soon as you sprout? I don't understand the temperature deal though, I have used newspaper and paper towels soaked and folded over seeds to germinate and tape them to my scenic window at the house and all of them pop after a couple to a few days. Why is it that outside temps which i'm sure are higher than 80 can be handled there but not from my mat? I will end up going back to that route i'm guessing now as these seeds are taking longer and those were fairly trustworthy. I will use my RR tray to simply hold them until ready for the system.

If you put under light directly after sprouting, why do people argue that you should wait until roots are built up until you put them under lights? I'm talking 400w hps and not (2) 23 watt CFLs.

Ive hope i have helped in some small way, maybe you live in a different climate than here in the UK, i never worry about humidity and as long as around 18c or a bit over my seedlings always germinate. Maybe just try germinating without the heat mat and humidity dome. 400watt is usually too bright for some seedlings thats why they dont go under them normally till the veg period plus why use all that electricity on a 400watt when 80watts of flouros is enough.

You have a long way to grow buddy and far too many questions for just one grower! Be strong in the method that works the best for your situation, if all else fails follow my simple steps in the previous pages and go from there. Really you must be over complicating tempreture and humidity, marijuana will germinate at temps of 5degrees celcius so dont get too hung up on temps.

My seedlings are bigger than yours in weaker seedling soil and not a drop of ferts, this should give you some clues as to that stunted growth, get back to me in a couple of weeks and update me on the next batch of seedlings. If anything has helped me learn it has been constant repetition. Dont be ignorant of your situation, go buy some tomato seeds and keep practising germinationg these till you get 100% sucsses rate, tom seeds need all the same as marijuana. Read up loads too and as always good luck dude. Peace

 

[bump1987]

Ive hope i have helped in some small way, maybe you live in a different climate than here in the UK, i never worry about humidity and as long as around 18c or a bit over my seedlings always germinate. Maybe just try germinating without the heat mat and humidity dome. 400watt is usually too bright for some seedlings thats why they dont go under them normally till the veg period plus why use all that electricity on a 400watt when 80watts of flouros is enough.

You have a long way to grow buddy and far too many questions for just one grower! Be strong in the method that works the best for your situation, if all else fails follow my simple steps in the previous pages and go from there. Really you must be over complicating tempreture and humidity, marijuana will germinate at temps of 5degrees celcius so dont get too hung up on temps.

My seedlings are bigger than yours in weaker seedling soil and not a drop of ferts, this should give you some clues as to that stunted growth, get back to me in a couple of weeks and update me on the next batch of seedlings. If anything has helped me learn it has been constant repetition. Dont be ignorant of your situation, go buy some tomato seeds and keep practising germinationg these till you get 100% sucsses rate, tom seeds need all the same as marijuana. Read up loads too and as always good luck dude. Peace

If by stunted growth you are talking about the seedlings, I can understand that...but none of my plants are stunted once growing. I grew a tomato plant full term aside from ripening simply because I couldn't control it. With a root ball that couldn't come out of the tub lid withing cutting it off, I believe that grow went more than well haha. I'm seeing a couple other sprouts in the batch I believe, I put them under 46 watts of CFL light and we will see what happens. They are below my sink surrounded by white walls and CFLs.

 

[Kingrow1]

If by stunted growth you are talking about the seedlings, I can understand that...but none of my plants are stunted once growing. I grew a tomato plant full term aside from ripening simply because I couldn't control it. With a root ball that couldn't come out of the tub lid withing cutting it off, I believe that grow went more than well haha. I'm seeing a couple other sprouts in the batch I believe, I put them under 46 watts of CFL light and we will see what happens. They are below my sink surrounded by white walls and CFLs.

Of course you can grow plants well you just suck at making seedlings!lol! Keep trying till they look like mine, seed, seedling soil and water nothing else. Peace

 

[Kingrow1]

Ok so you seen me use a small amount of garden lime otherwise known as dolomitic/dolomite lime, it is limestone that contains the mineral dolomite and this dolomite turns some of the limestone in to magnesium. You can see why some recomend garden lime as a cure for cal/mag problems but in my opinion it is normally too slow working and especially the type i get from my local hardware store, this particular variety is B&Q own brand and 20% passes through a 150micron seive (tells you its fine grade).

So in America i see the pelletized and powdered limestone to be all the rage and very obtainable, over here in Eurpope it alas is not and even liquid cal/mag is rare to find. So i have taken it upon myself to produce my own powdered lime for fast acting as well as lasting the length of the grow. Simply done i add my fine grade lime to my favourite pestle and mortar and grind away for about five mins, trust me you will need a strong arm as its hard work grinding stone plus a pestle and mortar that can handle stone grinding-



Now thats as hard as it gets and in the last picture you can see the colour difference between the fine grade darker lime and the lighter just powdered lime.

At this stage i would rub some through my fingers to check i have a good mix of powdered and fine grade, if it feels all powder then add some fine grade back to it, i aim for about half powdered and half fine grade to give me instant and long lasting results plus the powdered lime is easy to top dress to the soil to fix futher pH and cal/mag problems if needs arise, they wont if you add the right amount in the first place.

Rule of thumb would be one level teaspoon of lime per litre of soil or for all those using the imperial system and not metric - one tablespoon to one gallon of soil.

Lime and soil mixes are somthing to play around with, when you get it right your plants tell you, you may already have enough lime pre-added to your particular brand of soil to last the whole grow, i know most Canna soils do and this is an unecessary step for their soils but i like the peace of mind it provides.

Because i know i have ample lime to buffer my soil i need not worry about pH'ing water and ferts, thats what i employ the lime to do. Peace

 

[Kingrow1]

Great thread. Should be a sticky.

Germination/seedling is the most vulnerable stage. It's where people seem to lose the most plants. I killed a lot of seedlings until I developed a reliable method which turns out to be very similar to Kingrow's.

+rep

I tried a lot of germination techniques over the years but i have got to say that either straight planting to soil in a very small pot (2/3inch) or jiffy/peat cubes to be the easiest and most reliable.

I was always under the impression that the paper towel method was more suited to germinating large batches of seed in one go that way you could see and select the fastest germinating seedlings and kill the rest. For a single seed i like the jiffy cube which is no different to a normal soil germination really plus also introduces you to watering correctly. Paper towel methods have never worked well for me and a lot of other growers experience the same problem, i almost felt like buying unbleached organic paper towels but simply decided to swap to peat cubes and never looked back. I reckon i could do the paper towel method now with ease though but still its too much hassle for me and extra few stages compared to jiffy cubes which are easy to transplant, repot and water.

Peace

 

[PlanC]

6 days old Purps seedlings under a 400mh.

 

[Kingrow1]

6 days old Purps seedlings under a 400mh.

View attachment 1811149

Thanks for showing us dude. really nice strong seedlings you got there, can see the leaves look like there gona be really wide and the stems look quite strong and thick already.

As you use 400w lights how far away do you keep them dude? Peace

 

[Meth On Zombies]

Really awesome thread you have here. +rep

 

[azryda420]

I read all this with a british accent in my head.

 

[Kingrow1]

Are we on day 7, i think so-

Ok so the seedlings that we planted in the first post had germinated and not one to jump the gun but i always seem to be potting up early, abouts the time the tap root starts to show at the bottom of the peat cube. Its only going in seedling soil so is fine to pot up early, if left longer the main tap root would eventually protrude out of the cube and prune itself as it had constant contact with air and no or very little moisture. This would just cause a new root to branch out of the main tap root which is a perfectly normal and natural occurance, just like topping a plant a root too will just shoot out lower growth if the end is inhibited in any way.

So with this potting up i'm gona use my auto fem seedling plus add some benificial bacteria and funghi, mainly mycorrhiza funghi as there the most symbiotic for marijuana growth out of the three main groups of funghi and trichoderma bacteria (Please google these if your unsure what they are and how they work). Of course the 'Vitalink' benificials contains roughly 30 strains of funghi and bacteria but these two are the most widely used and available so the ones i have mentioned here.

Now contrary to popular belief and the back of the product label i find that one small dose in the rootzone of a new seedling should be more than enough for the whole grow. Most of the benificial funghi and bacteria multiply as the root mass increases and where the root goes so do they follow and colonise, of course not all do and i need citification to verify this but in my best knowledge and in my simplified way this is what happens.

So picture one we see the newly germinated seedlings in my powerfull futuristic growroom. Then as always and shown before we prepare our soil mix and pot, make the right sized jiffy shape hole and check the stem will be burried to the depth we want.

Next up is the bottle of Vitalink benificials, hard to think 30 strains of funghi and bacteria all fit in that bottle but they do. After that is a picture showing its horrible colour, believe me it smells worse than it looks.

We then add it to the base of the jiffy sized hole in the pre-prepared soil mix and pot, i prefer one to two teaspoons per seedling but i feel like less would also have the same effect. Now we want the main tap root from the seedling that is shown hanging from the jiffy cube to be planted directly into the soil where are benificials are and simply cover up and lightly water ready to go back to the veg room all happy-


Within a short time the funghi will have colonised the roots and bacteria colonised the soil around the roots giving the roots way more nutrients and enabling them to fight of the bad guys like viruses and pathogens.



Did you remember when watering newly potted seedlings to just water the roots or did we drench the whole pot in water? Seedlings only need a small amount of water and mainly around their root zone, you'll see just how small the seedling root is in a bit, i aim to just make the soil wet to about an inch round the seedling, that way its got a few days till the next watering and not gona sit there in a wet pot for two weeks looking overwatered.

 

[Kingrow1]

So after the last potted up seedling that leaves me with just my own kingrow1 seedling that we also planted in the first post of this thread.

Lets practice pricking out although why you would ever be in this situation i don't really know but is good to see and also the root development up to this small stage.

The idea of pricking out is to take the seedling out of the growing media its in and transfer it to new growing media, some can simply pull the seedling free of the soil and others use a little tooth pick or other pricking device to prise the seedling and roots up. In my situation i simply have to crumble the dryish jiffy cube till most of it falls away-



So what were left with is simply the roots and whatever they managed to cling on to. There is no reason to futher clean the roots or get the last remaining peat cube off as this will suffice.

Next we want to make a hole deep enough to accomodate the roots, in my case it dosent have to be very wide so im going to use the back of a spoon to dig my hole. Once this is done grab the seedling gently and dangle the roots down into the hole. It dosent matter if they bunch up as long as the seedling has enough support to stand up straight.

Once in either fill the hole or in my case dig the spoon in next to the hole and push the soil from the side to seal the roots in-



Finally firm down the topsoil and surounding areas to give it added support. Peace

 

[Kingrow1]

Wow more seedling porn!

So anyway were picking up where we left of with the kingrow seedling, if you can strain your memories or worse still scroll back one post you'll remember that we had just potted it up after pricking it out of the jiffy cube.

I have no reason to give a seaweed soil drench and is not part of my routine but i did say were gona play about with one seedling. I use to do a small seaweed drench but found that i didn't need to in my soil. It is benificial for adding the micro nutrients to the soil, although they should all be there in big enough quantities already, and giving the microherd or soil organisms a kickstart. My liquid seaweed is just that and has no added nutrients neither an NPK rating, it is neutral in that it will not change the pH of water when added.

So now were gona give it a seaweed drench, we'll stick to roughly the recomended amounts as shown on the back of the bottle (call my small drop per abouts 250ml similar!) We'll be using plain old maxicrop organic liquid seaweed straight from the bottle-



Easy to mix up just add the recomended amount to room temperature tap water and mix in, simple. Remember that that Evian bottle simply contains my pH8.1 tap water and is bottled to allow it to reach room temp, my tap water can be a little cold at the best of times and we dont wana shock them roots. Room temperature is about 18 degrees centigrade roughly of the top of my head.



Remember also how we water a small seedling, just go around the soil where the seedling is, the whole soil mass and pot dose not need to be watered and at this stage getting runoff is unimportant but will help show youve watered deep enough in one spot.

So its back to the veg room after i quickly cultivate the top layer of soil, i'll probably show how to cultivate in another post, yet more intresting stuff !


My veg room is starting to look green and happy again, a little work goes a long way and gives me a healthy plant for the flowering room every week or so. I suppose we'd all rather see a thread on how to yeild big and showing some great buds but this is where it all starts, get it right here and pretty soon you'll be making that yeild ten ounces every day thread.



Peace

 

[Kingrow1]

Really awesome thread you have here. +rep

Why thank you sir.

I read all this with a british accent in my head.

Well i read your post as if "you were female, blonde, hot and single longing for that long distance relationship with a man who you can spoil and go out to work for so he can sit at home tirelessly yeilding you crop after crop with only the faint glow of the computer screen, where many manly words had just been typed and posted to the Rollitup website, illuminating the sweat rolling down his rippling body causing you to pulsate with lust as you touched, embraced and finally pollinated each other on a bed of compost!"

Alas your probably a six foot two black guy who would drain the life out of my scrawny neck just for breathing the wrong way and writing homosexual comments about his escapades with the georgeous Kingrow1. Peace

 

[PlanC]

Thanks for showing us dude. really nice strong seedlings you got there, can see the leaves look like there gona be really wide and the stems look quite strong and thick already.

As you use 400w lights how far away do you keep them dude? Peace

They are about 20 inches away from the light or for you metric people 50.8cm.

I got a quick question for you. I want to transplant the seedlings into their final 3 gallon pot eventually. When is a good time to transplant and how does a person tell the seedlings have outground their pot.

 

[Kingrow1]

They are about 20 inches away from the light or for you metric people 50.8cm.

.

Thankyou for posting this information.

I got a quick question for you. I want to transplant the seedlings into their final 3 gallon pot eventually. When is a good time to transplant and how does a person tell the seedlings have outground their pot

I would hold off a while yet, your pots look slightly bigger than mine and i get a few sets of leaves before my first repot, roughly week three of veg and thats after the seedling stage. By my week three they are definatly ready for a repot.

Some might say transplant now or start in the final size containers, this is not as easy as repotting up and i would not recomend it. As for when to transplant that should be when the plant and soil can be pulled out of the pot all in one go. Basically when the roots have established in the pot.

When my plants get root bound they tend to seem nute deficient yet fertilizer dosent seem to help, they drink less water and waterings become less frequent plus groth slows and stunts somewhat.

Simple experience growing and repotting a few times will be your best guide, it gives you chance to see root development. In a few days i should repot one of my veg plants and hopefully can show the root system and when is a good time to transplant. Rule of thumb is if not all the soil comes out of the pot you have transplanted too early. Peace

 

[PlanC]

Cool thanks. This is my first grow so everything is a learning curve.