Fuck ron paul ---al awikidickhead is dead

[The Ruiner]

Yes, yes....We all know about the Monroe Doctrine and American Imperialism. The fact is clear...Guzman was elected by the people of Guatemala. What does this mean? The people wanted him as their leader (mostly the commoners. The wealthy did not). The "people" wanted him and voted him into office...period. There is no debate here. And what did we do? We proceeded with covert operations to depose him and put in place a government of our own choosing that would maintain the "status quo"...A government sympathetic to Us corporate interests. Whether Guzman was a socialist or a communist is immaterial...He was elected by the people who wanted him.

Yes it is about cheap bananas. Chalmers Johnson has written a very good book regarding this subject called "Blowback: The Costs and Consequences of American Empire"...an excellent read and quite thorough.

The reality is that "the people" didn't have much say in the way things were anyway. The "people" also wanted "land reform" which essentially meant STEALING it from the owners (which owned LARGE parts of Guatemala, and were not part of UF) and giving to "the people." So, how and why you can believe that going against the power-bloc of a country successfully will ever be an endeavor worth pursuing is out of purely ideological interest. If the "majority" "votes" someone in, it will mean nothing if that majority is an ineffectual grouping, as was the case.

I understand that Empire comes with costs. I however don't espouse the idea that the costs outweigh the benefits, as American consumptive habits would indicate and corroborate.

 

[Carthoris]

That was already addressed. Read the thread.

I read the entire thing, and what I said was still true. He was never charged with anything.

 

[dukeanthony]

Here is my Middle finger
Keep up the good Work RP
You are getting farther and Farther out on the Fringes

I guess they call it the Lunatic fringe for a reason

 

[beardo]

Here is my Middle finger
Keep up the good Work RP
You are getting farther and Farther out on the Fringes

I guess they call it the Lunatic fringe for a reason

The idea of reverting to a Republic that follows its constitution=Crazy?

 

[dukeanthony]

The idea of reverting to a Republic that follows its constitution=Crazy?

Open to conjecture since Ron Paul wants to follow some parts an not the others

 

[PetFlora]

Whether you're Patriot, or a Terrorist, depends on which side of the issue you are on. It is 'we' the US of A who interfere in other countries governments. That's bad enough: that we have no problem killing other countries' people who object and are willing to fight while putting our own soldiers/citizens in harms way as a result, is sadder than I can convey. Wars never solved anything, but are known to increase the wealth of the victors, who then rewrite history to suit their agenda. Viva Ron Paul

 

[beardo]

Open to conjecture since Ron Paul wants to follow some parts an not the others

Has he ever said or even implied this?

 

[Carthoris]

Here is my Middle finger
Keep up the good Work RP
You are getting farther and Farther out on the Fringes

I guess they call it the Lunatic fringe for a reason

Allow me to translate for you all.

"My name is DukeAnthony, and I don't understand the things being discussed. There are no talking points supplied by the people who do my thinking for me in response to the valid points you have presented. To distract from the shame of my ignorance, I must loudly and boldy proclaim that you are all stupid, wrong, and evil/racist. However, I will do this without naming a particular person so I do not look like I am throwing a tantrum because I don't have any response. Fuck everyone who doesn't agree with me and keeps talking about history which I never learned."

You might as well use the Chewbacca defense.

 

[dukeanthony]

HIGH
I am A Ron Paul Supporter and I am at least 2 of the following 3 categories
-Stoner
-Conspiracy Believer
-Racist

 

[Carthoris]

i do wish he was tried first.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/09/world/09awlaki.html

that said, all of you paranoid stoners worried that you're next, smoke one and chill.

UncleBuck,

I sincerely doubt anyone else read that article, which is a shame. I didn't see anyone else respond to it. I thank you for a great find. If any of you want to debate Awikidickhead's murder by our government, I suggest you read that article, regardless of the side you are on.

I don't think anyone seriously thinks he or she will be next. The concern is setting the precedent that the government can kill any citizens they want outside of the law if they want without oversight.

 

[redivider]

UncleBuck,

I sincerely doubt anyone else read that article, which is a shame. I didn't see anyone else respond to it. I thank you for a great find. If any of you want to debate Awikidickhead's murder by our government, I suggest you read that article, regardless of the side you are on.

I don't think anyone seriously thinks he or she will be next. The concern is setting the precedent that the government can kill any citizens they want outside of the law if they want without oversight.

it is your opinion that it was outside of the law. it is federal law that any citizen that takes up arms against this country is considered a traitor and an enemy and is fair game for our armed forces, and the commander of the armed forces is the President of the United states....

it's debatable. but this whole 'outside of the law' bit is an OPINION you are entitled to.

 

[Carthoris]

it is your opinion that it was outside of the law. it is federal law that any citizen that takes up arms against this country is considered a traitor and an enemy and is fair game for our armed forces, and the commander of the armed forces is the President of the United states....

it's debatable. but this whole 'outside of the law' bit is an OPINION you are entitled to.

Ever heard of the whole innocent until proven guilty? What exactly did he do that made him traitor? Saying thing does not make you a traitor. Did you happen to read the article? Our courts didn't even bother to bring charges against him. You realize that the United States had him arrested and held in Yemen for 18 months. This ended at the start of 2008. They knew where he was and they even questioned him. This guy didn't blow up buildings or anything.

Here is a very interesting highlight of his life.

“Late” 2009: Awlaki’s name added to separate lists of maintained “High Value Targets” and “High Value Individuals” maintained by U.S. Joint Special Operations Command’s list and the Central Intelligence Agency

Jan. 20 2010: Senate Foreign Relations Committee report: “Although Awlaki has not yet been accused of a crime, U.S. intelligence and military officials consider him to be a direct threat to U.S. interests.”

LOL, we hereby impose the death sentence, but we aren't sure why. We will get back to you.

If the USA was targeting me, harassing me, and trying to kill me I don't think my response would be to send them piles of lollipops.

 

[tomahawk2406]

it is your opinion that it was outside of the law. it is federal law that any citizen that takes up arms against this country is considered a traitor and an enemy and is fair game for our armed forces, and the commander of the armed forces is the President of the United states....

it's debatable. but this whole 'outside of the law' bit is an OPINION you are entitled to.

its just classic party bullshit. nothing more than republican ammo. hell they are pumping their fists when a terrorist dies. HOWEVER, if they can find a way to say dems are doing outside the constitution than they will. This who "unconstitutional" ticket for the republicans has gone too far, it just pisses me off when more and more americans fall into this classic "la laker, boston celtics" game. republicans don't get up in arms when our precision guided missiles hit a fucking house. we just say "shit, sorry bout that one!"

p.s. fuck l.a.

 

[Carthoris]

its just classic party bullshit. nothing more than republican ammo. hell they are pumping their fists when a terrorist dies. HOWEVER, if they can find a way to say dems are doing outside the constitution than they will. This who "unconstitutional" ticket for the republicans has gone too far, it just pisses me off when more and more americans fall into this classic "la laker, boston celtics" game. republicans don't get up in arms when our precision guided missiles hit a fucking house. we just say "shit, sorry bout that one!"

p.s. fuck l.a.

Ron Paul supporters are mostly Libertarians. I support whoever is against government control of my life. The Republican's you are taking about are Neocons. Neocons came from the blue party. You should take them back to your side.

 

[dukeanthony]

Ron Paul supporters are mostly Libertarians. I support whoever is against government control of my life. The Republican's you are taking about are Neocons. Neocons came from the blue party. You should take them back to your side.

YEAH LOOK AT ALL THESE DEMOCRATS THAT ARE NEOCONS AND MEMBERS OF THE PNAC

Project directors
[as listed on the PNAC website:]

• William Kristol, Co-founder and Chairman[1]
• Robert Kagan, Co-founder[1]
• Bruce P. Jackson[1]

• Mark Gerson[1]
• Randy Scheunemann[1]

[edit] Project staff

• Ellen Bork, Deputy Director[1]
• Gary Schmitt, Senior Fellow[1][51]
• Thomas Donnelly, Senior Fellow[1]
• Reuel Marc Gerecht, Senior Fellow[1]

• Mitch Jackson, Senior Fellow
• Timothy Lehmann, Assistant Director[1]
• Michael Goldfarb, Research Associate[1]

[edit] Former directors and staff

• Daniel McKivergan, Deputy Director[52]

[edit] Signatories to Statement of Principles

• Elliott Abrams[5]
• Gary Bauer[5]
• William J. Bennett[5]
• John Ellis "Jeb" Bush[5]
• Richard B. Cheney[5]
• Eliot A. Cohen[5]
• Midge Decter[5]
• Paula Dobriansky[5]
• Steve Forbes[5]
• Aaron Friedberg[5]
• Francis Fukuyama[5]
• Frank Gaffney[5]
• Fred C. Ikle[5]

• Donald Kagan[5]
• Zalmay Khalilzad[5]
• I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby[5]
• Norman Podhoretz[5]
• J. Danforth Quayle[5]
• Peter W. Rodman[5]
• Stephen P. Rosen[5]
• Henry S. Rowen[5]
• Donald Rumsfeld[5]
• Vin Weber[5]
• George Weigel[5]
• Paul Wolfowitz[5]

[edit] Signatories or contributors to other significant letters or reports[14]

• Elliott Abrams[8][10]
• Kenneth Adelman[53]
• Richard V. Allen[18]
• Richard L. Armitage[10]
• Gary Bauer[18][53]
• Jeffrey Bell[18][53]
• William J. Bennett[8][10][18][53]
• Jeffrey Bergner[8][10][18]
• John Bolton[8][10]
• Ellen Bork[53]
• Rudy Boschwitz[18]
• Linda Chavez[53]
• Eliot Cohen[13][18][53]
• Seth Cropsey[18]
• Midge Decter[18][53]
• Paula Dobriansky[8][10]
• Thomas Donnelly[13][18][53]
• Nicholas Eberstadt,[18][53][54]
• Hillel Fradkin[18][53][55]
• Aaron Friedberg[18]
• Francis Fukuyama[8][10][18]
• Frank Gaffney[18][53]
• Jeffrey Gedmin[18][53]
• Reuel Marc Gerecht[18][53]
• Charles Hill[18][53]
• Bruce P. Jackson[18][53]
• Eli S. Jacobs[18]
• Michael Joyce[18]
• Donald Kagan[13][18][53]
• Robert Kagan[8][10][13][18][53]
• Stephen Kantany
• Zalmay Khalilzad[8][10]

• Jeane Kirkpatrick[18]
• Charles Krauthammer[18]
• William Kristol[8][10][13][18]
• John Lehman[18][53]
• I. Lewis Libby[13]
• Tod Lindberg[53][56]
• Rich Lowry[53]
• Clifford May[18][53]
• John McCain[57]
• Joshua Muravchik[53]
• Michael O'Hanlon [58][59]
• Martin Peretz[18][53]
• Richard Perle[8][10][18][53]
• Daniel Pipes[53]
• Norman Podhoretz[18][53]
• Peter W. Rodman[8][10][18]
• Stephen P. Rosen[13][18][53]
• Donald Rumsfeld[8][10]
• Randy Scheunemann[18][53]
• Gary Schmitt[13][18][51][53]
• William Schneider, Jr.[8][10][18][53]
• Richard H. Shultz[18][60]
• Henry Sokolski[18]
• Stephen J. Solarz[18]
• Vin Weber[8][10][18]
• Leon Wieseltier[18]
• Marshall Wittmann[18][53]
• Paul Wolfowitz[8][10][13]
• R. James Woolsey[8][10][53]
• Dov Zakheim[13][61]
• Robert B. Zoellick[8][10]

 

[redivider]

Ever heard of the whole innocent until proven guilty? What exactly did he do that made him traitor? Saying thing does not make you a traitor. Did you happen to read the article? Our courts didn't even bother to bring charges against him. You realize that the United States had him arrested and held in Yemen for 18 months. This ended at the start of 2008. They knew where he was and they even questioned him. This guy didn't blow up buildings or anything.

Here is a very interesting highlight of his life.

“Late” 2009: Awlaki’s name added to separate lists of maintained “High Value Targets” and “High Value Individuals” maintained by U.S. Joint Special Operations Command’s list and the Central Intelligence Agency

Jan. 20 2010: Senate Foreign Relations Committee report: “Although Awlaki has not yet been accused of a crime, U.S. intelligence and military officials consider him to be a direct threat to U.S. interests.”

LOL, we hereby impose the death sentence, but we aren't sure why. We will get back to you.

If the USA was targeting me, harassing me, and trying to kill me I don't think my response would be to send them piles of lollipops.

innocent until proven guilty is only true in criminal law in the US. in mexico, you are guilty unless you can prove yourself innocent.... this guy, in this case, was in YEMEN.....you can't try to apply american jurisprudence and legal defense theory to a guy who's in another country and not under arrest..... if he was under arrest then ok.

but he was in 'hiding' and had officially declared himself to be an enemy of the US.... if you are going to try to defend the killing of an enemy of the US.

i have something better for you to do, there's thousands of US citizens in the US waiting their turn on death row. go make sure THOSE guys are truly guilty.....

the guy didn't blow up buildings or anything... he just recruited, groomed, trained and ordered the guys who did....

 

[The Ruiner]

I read the entire thing, and what I said was still true. He was never charged with anything.

He was being targeted for his involvement in terrorist activities. He was already being tried in absentia in Yemen for plotting to kill foreigners.The dude was a terrorist, how hard is it to understand that, as a terrorist you are not going to be afforded the luxuries of "due process"?

Would you seriously have preferred that this guy get a trial in DC, and perhaps even walk away on some miscarriage of justice via"technicalities"? He had no regard for the legal systems of either the US or Yemen, and was actively involved in terrorist activity directed towards both countries. There's little reason to equate his fate to that of any typical American, just like there is little reason to equate the precedents set by the PA to any ordinary American. To do so is a gross exaggeration geared towards fear-mongering the American public.

 

[Carthoris]

innocent until proven guilty is only true in criminal law in the US. in mexico, you are guilty unless you can prove yourself innocent.... this guy, in this case, was in YEMEN.....you can't try to apply american jurisprudence and legal defense theory to a guy who's in another country and not under arrest..... if he was under arrest then ok.

but he was in 'hiding' and had officially declared himself to be an enemy of the US.... if you are going to try to defend the killing of an enemy of the US.

i have something better for you to do, there's thousands of US citizens in the US waiting their turn on death row. go make sure THOSE guys are truly guilty.....

the guy didn't blow up buildings or anything... he just recruited, groomed, trained and ordered the guys who did....

So basically, every person who leaves the country can be executed. If the government were trying to kill me, I would be in hiding too. The people on death row get their chance at a trial. Did you miss that they put him on the 'kill on sight' list and then months later said 'he isn't accused of anything, but we think he is a threat'? How is that OK? Did you also miss that the dude was essentially in US custody a few years ago and we let him go? Did you miss the part where they brought bogus charges against him about passport fraud that went nowhere and were dismissed? How about locking him up for almost two years in a Yemen prison? He went on TV, radio, and paper about fighting the USA after all these things. Prior to them he wasn't anti-America. If they locked me up for two years, threatened me with death, systematically invaded and bombed just about every country that had people of my race/religion/culture and threatened/blackmailed/bribed the rest then I can assure you I would be even more violent. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if in my lifetime it came to that at the rate it is going now.

The truth is you blindly accept that this guy was the enemy and that he needed to die. You want to give the government the ultimate decision over whether you should live or not based o a bureaucrat saying you are a security risk. It is my opinion that any government official that signed off on this should be tried for murder.

(does the 1984 salute)

 

[tomahawk2406]

this guy aided in numerous active terrorist activities. i just don't see the issue. you people actually sit here and debate whether a terrorist should have been killed or not. aren't there more important threads that need to be commented on. i know the OP was slaying paul for his comment on the issue, but to actually say there's unconstitutional issue with this is kinda fucking stupid...................just kinda

 

[tomahawk2406]

So basically, every person who leaves the country can be executed.

lol yes thats exactly what goes on right now. theres a huge bingo spinning wheel with names of active passports. they just pick em and fucking shoot em.