Help with dwc & scrog please!!

[0blivious]

Hello All

I'm fairly new to all this but currently run a DWC set up with 2 x 20L Bubble buckets, after finishing and harvesting a grow (big bud n blue widdow) im looking to start using the "SCROG" method to add to the results im already getting from DWC but need some advice from anyone who is willing as I have a few questions.

I'll be using the following setup;

Tent 90cm x 90 cm x 160 cm
400 watt metal halide for veg
400 watt hps for flower
4" inline inlet
6" ruck extraction
Submersible Air Pumps (1 per bucket)
twin outlet air pump
6" Air Stones x 2 (1 per bucket)
AN Sensi Grow
AN Seni Bloom
AN Bud Candy
AN Big-Bud
Green House Seeds kalashnikova (fem)

The main question I have is how much room will 1 plant take up roughly when in the screen when finished??

I have a tent that is 90cm x 90cm x 160cm and its pretty crowded with 2 ladies in there at once so I just dont want to start 2 off to run out of space when the stretching phase happens in flowering.

Would it be best to start with 1 and judge it from there?

Also ill be growing from seed so when during the veg phase should I be starting to weave the branches into the screen??

Any help for these would be great guys

 

[4tatude]

you determine size by veg time, build screen n when 75% full flip. keep scrog going till screen is full or 2nd full week of flower then let them go up. its that simple...

 

[0blivious]

you determine size by veg time, build screen n when 75% full flip. keep scrog going till screen is full or 2nd full week of flower then let them go up. its that simple...

Cheers man I kinda thought that.

By "let them go up" do you mean stop feeding the branches back under the next hole along? I'm looking forward to trying this method it just seems to make sense.

I normally top my ladies but I might give fimming a go for the scrog set up, don't suppose u have any experience in this do you?

Cheers for your reply too

 

[chunkydunkynug]

One. If I were you I'd only grow one in that much room. I would also vegg out about five weeks.
Be sure to "tie them down"
not sure if you are or think like I do bit when I scrogged my first two I didn't do it right at all.
Be sure to bend over any new grow under the screen And tie the branches, near node points closer to the screen to allow more light to those points of interest.
Once the new nodes have growth off the main branch it is growing from, tie them down and out as well.
Spacing of bud sites are key on e flowering commences. Don't want mold to grow and we want light in all the right places.
YouTube "critical and important scrog maintenance."
trimming out any "useless" growth from underneath your canopy is essential in the final two weeks of vegg.
Also, I top once very early in vegg only.
Then again i grow 400W X 23"x24' inches
enjoi

 

[4tatude]

imo never tie just keep moveing under screen, also no need to top or flm when growing scrog. agree to trim as it will be a jungle n a perfect env for pm.
by let them go i mean growup no more sideways training

 

[legallyflying]

no need to top if your going to SCROG? Not so sure about that one. The best way to maximize your yield in a SCROG is to get plenty of big shoots growing. The more big stems the better. I top a total of 3-4 times before the even hit the screen. Depends on the strain but trust me, if you have a strain that doesn't like to branch.. say AK47, then you better be training the fuck out of them.

I would also stop all training one week after the flip. Especially the smaller branches (not the main terminal shoots) You will find that they don't keep growing as much and the buds will be IN the screen, not above them.

SCROGing is an excellent grow technique but be advised, its "easy" sure. But it is also an art form. It WILL take you several attempts to really learn what you need to be doing when.

 

[0blivious]

One. If I were you I'd only grow one in that much room. I would also vegg out about five weeks.
Be sure to "tie them down"
not sure if you are or think like I do bit when I scrogged my first two I didn't do it right at all.
Be sure to bend over any new grow under the screen And tie the branches, near node points closer to the screen to allow more light to those points of interest.
Once the new nodes have growth off the main branch it is growing from, tie them down and out as well.
Spacing of bud sites are key on e flowering commences. Don't want mold to grow and we want light in all the right places.
YouTube "critical and important scrog maintenance."
trimming out any "useless" growth from underneath your canopy is essential in the final two weeks of vegg.
Also, I top once very early in vegg only.
Then again i grow 400W X 23"x24' inches
enjoi

Hello, cheers for stopping by!

Yeah I was only going to get one on the go but wanted some quick smkoe so added the autoflowerer as well, mind you saying that if there isnt enough room ill just add a side screen on the main plants side and go from there.

I've started a journal so please click the link in my signiture to come along for the grow!!

 

[0blivious]

no need to top if your going to SCROG? Not so sure about that one. The best way to maximize your yield in a SCROG is to get plenty of big shoots growing. The more big stems the better. I top a total of 3-4 times before the even hit the screen. Depends on the strain but trust me, if you have a strain that doesn't like to branch.. say AK47, then you better be training the fuck out of them.

I would also stop all training one week after the flip. Especially the smaller branches (not the main terminal shoots) You will find that they don't keep growing as much and the buds will be IN the screen, not above them.

SCROGing is an excellent grow technique but be advised, its "easy" sure. But it is also an art form. It WILL take you several attempts to really learn what you need to be doing when.

Hi Legally,

Scrog looks like the best method ive seen so far since i fell in love with dwc. I normally top my ladies twice to end up with 6+ tops but am thinking of trying "FIMMING" this time round as it seems to get better results.

Once the seedling is established and has a few sets of true leaves i'll fimm it then and prob again 1-2weeks late and go from that.

So is ak47 not good for scrog? ive got a green house seeds kalashnikova on the go (ak47 x white widow) and apparently they are supposed to be ace for scrog.

Ooh, I've started my journal, click the link in my sig to come along for the grow, got pics etc up already of the two seedlings that popped yesterday and weill be starting my screen construction tonight

 

[legallyflying]

I'll stop by your journal later. I think having some white widow in there will help with scrog. This is my first run with straight up ak47 and it just doesn't like to branch like the WW/big bud does. Plus it seems a little sensitive to crowding as it really started stretching in later veg. On the opposite end of the spectrum is the WW/Bb that lady throws new shoots like mad. I've got buckets full of trimmings and I really had to stay on top of her to prevent super long thin branches emanating from the base.

I like to get several stalks and the right before the screen, Start LSTing to promote the thickening and develoPment of the upper shoots. It gives the plant a little head start I'm terms of developing bigger bud sites, or more specifically, thicker branches to support larger and ultimately more even bud sites. In a scrog its all about eveness. The more you can spread around the auxins, the more even it will be. It's tricky to do but I would rather have 40 moderately dominant tops than 6 clearly dominant and 34 minor tops even though the big dominant stems grow seductively large buds.

Does this make sense?

Another issue in DWC scrog is a rock solid bucket environment. Probably less of an issue in RDWC but Once the plants are in the scrog, your not going to be able to check the inlets, airstones, roots for 10 weeks.

 

[0blivious]

I'll stop by your journal later. I think having some white widow in there will help with scrog. This is my first run with straight up ak47 and it just doesn't like to branch like the WW/big bud does. Plus it seems a little sensitive to crowding as it really started stretching in later veg. On the opposite end of the spectrum is the WW/Bb that lady throws new shoots like mad. I've got buckets full of trimmings and I really had to stay on top of her to prevent super long thin branches emanating from the base.

I like to get several stalks and the right before the screen, Start LSTing to promote the thickening and develoPment of the upper shoots. It gives the plant a little head start I'm terms of developing bigger bud sites, or more specifically, thicker branches to support larger and ultimately more even bud sites. In a scrog its all about eveness. The more you can spread around the auxins, the more even it will be. It's tricky to do but I would rather have 40 moderately dominant tops than 6 clearly dominant and 34 minor tops even though the big dominant stems grow seductively large buds.

Does this make sense?

Another issue in DWC scrog is a rock solid bucket environment. Probably less of an issue in RDWC but Once the plants are in the scrog, your not going to be able to check the inlets, airstones, roots for 10 weeks.

Hey again Legally.

Cheers again for the input.

Yeah I can imagine anything crossed with big bud is going to work here, I cut down a blue widow and a big bud last week. The big bud plant had so many problems all the way through but still pumped out HUGE cola's, I'll upload the pics of the harvest.. the biggest bud was nearly the size of 2 litre cock bottles so a whole screen of that?!! (lol think my mrs just got wet!)

Yup that makes sense to me - if the object of flattening the plant down with the screen is to let all the flowering sites get the same auxins and light then it makes more sense to have everything equal in size/ height etc so that the growth is equal (otherwise your main colas will shade out the closest buds n so on).

You could help me clear a few points up going off your message if you dont mind;

1. Low Stress Training - By this do you mean you are taping/tying the branches to the pot / bucket so that they are used to the shape we are trying to train them into??

2. Trimming - should I be just trying to keep the main stems here? for example if I had topped the plant to get 2 main colas, then again to get 4-6 cola's should I be trying to train these main six stems and their side shoots to the screen and removing everything not part of these 6 stems (like the odd few you always end up with at the bottom covered in popcorn after flipping to 12/12 for like 4 weeks plus??)

As for the DWC issues I think I have this fairly under control as I have had major height issues in the past that meant I couldnt even take the buckets out of the tent as there wasnt enough room to lift the bucket 2 inches over the bottom zip of the door - SO, I'm going to raise the level of the buckets 2 inches or so more than the actual height of the buckets using plastic tubs (like the big rubbermaid totes you see people setting up dwc in) this SHOULD (note the use of caps!!) allow me to simply drain out any water into a bucket, unclip the lid, drop the bucket out of the way and use my spare 20L bucket to support the plant while I clean and refill then I can repeat on the other plant. Sound Workable?

The big bud from my last grow spent its last 4 weeks being drained as well as poss using the draining pipe on the bottom of the buckets and refilled in the tent so it shouldnt be too much of an issue I hope.

Even if it is an issue most people have suggested that you tie the centre of the screen down to stop the plant pusing it up so I though "hmm why dont I just tie it under the bucket lid??" if I make sure its supported enough surely I could just drop the bucket and leave the lid suspended and tied to the screen supporting the plant while I did a rapid change out???

If I do end up having to drain and refil the tubs as they are in a fixed position i'll prob flush with ph'd water every 2 weeks for a few days to dilute, drain and stop the nutes building up to harmful levels. Early days yet but I guess this is what the journal is for!

Right off to buiild my screen yey! (80cm x 80xcm so about 0.7 meters squared) will be updating my journal pics after that!

 

[4tatude]

no need to top if your going to SCROG? Not so sure about that one. The best way to maximize your yield in a SCROG is to get plenty of big shoots growing. The more big stems the better. I top a total of 3-4 times before the even hit the screen. Depends on the strain but trust me, if you have a strain that doesn't like to branch.. say AK47, then you better be training the fuck out of them.

I would also stop all training one week after the flip. Especially the smaller branches (not the main terminal shoots) You will find that they don't keep growing as much and the buds will be IN the screen, not above them.

SCROGing is an excellent grow technique but be advised, its "easy" sure. But it is also an art form. It WILL take you several attempts to really learn what you need to be doing when.

i stand corected agreed that some strains just dont scrog well without a lot of toping n training. was thinking, or rather not thinking lmao of anything but the headband i got going. they are animals and are hard to keep under controll. i had a sour diesel cut acted the same way. on the other hand ive some kryptonite that are like trying to bend a broom stick lol. you would have to top n train from clone to scrog that strain. thanks for the tune up peace n yes it is an artform...

 

[legallyflying]

Took some pictures. My DWC Scrog...


View attachment 1819170View attachment 1819168View attachment 1819171

 

[0blivious]

Took some pictures. My DWC Scrog...


View attachment 1819170View attachment 1819168View attachment 1819169View attachment 1819171

That is sexy!

Love it, man i wish i had a space like that lol, the truth is i dont need it tho i only supply myself and that size room would take me a long, long, long time to get through although with how long it would cure for im pretty sure it'd be worth it lol. Sweet pics and set up bro just gave +rep to you man.

Legally, that third pic along - how long has that been vegging for and when did you start trimming all the lower branches to keep them clear??

 

[legallyflying]

Those plants have been vegging for about 5 weeks. That is a ww/big bud and it loves to throw new shoots and get super bushy. So I am pretty much trimming all the new shoots that develop on the lower parts of the plant so they don't stretch out into big long thin branches reaching for the screen. All that shit down low will just die and make a mess so I do a big trim (which is what that picture represents) about a week to 10 days before the flip. I like to finish all that major trimming a couple days before the flip so they are not stressed.

cheers.