The great thermite debate.

[NoDrama]

let me spell this out for you very simply

fire + insulation + oxygen = much hotter fire

check back thru this thread i have mentioned this before and other people agree

tell you what lets hear some good reasons from you why it wouldnt work ?

I already gave you reasons why, do you not read them? Selective amnesia?

 

[ginjawarrior]

I already gave you reasons why, do you not read them? Selective amnesia?

must be....

care to quote it to refresh my memory?

 

[ginjawarrior]

irrelevant

such a lack of substance. thanks for confirming my suspicions about you

 

[ginjawarrior]

I already gave you reasons why, do you not read them? Selective amnesia?

tell you what i must go get my eyes checked for selective blindness too as i have looked back thru this thread and not seen a single thing from you to say why heat wouldnt have built up from the fires in the debris feild

so again quote it to refresh my memory please

 

[doc111]

Mountains? Mole hills more like.

I noticed it took you a few days to respond to my reply, did you have to take a few days to think of something good to say, or were you busy with other things?

If you would've read the whole post, I clearly state that I have been dealing with a FAMILY CRISIS for the last several days! I find it quite odd that you will take the word of some anonymous conspiracy blogger over a 15 year veteran of the fire service who was there, but you're right, I don't have the first clue what I'm talking about. You are certainly free to think whatever you'd like, but I have seen you bring virtually nothing to the table except pictures of other burning skyscrapers that didn't collapse. I would think if there was indeed some conspiracy here that there would be something a little more substantive than other burning skyscrapers that didn't collapse.

 

[ginjawarrior]

If you would've read the whole post, I clearly state that I have been dealing with a FAMILY CRISIS for the last several days! I find it quite odd that you will take the word of some anonymous conspiracy blogger over a 15 year veteran of the fire service who was there, but you're right, I don't have the first clue what I'm talking about. You are certainly free to think whatever you'd like, but I have seen you bring virtually nothing to the table except pictures of other burning skyscrapers that didn't collapse. I would think if there was indeed some conspiracy here that there would be something a little more substantive than other burning skyscrapers that didn't collapse.

lets not forget he put up a skyscraper that had it steel sections collapsing in the pictures as his proof.....

and this...

and nodrama im still waiting for you quote the part where you debunked the fires in debris field

 

[NoDrama]

The collapsing of the Windsor tower section is extremely good info. the section that did collapse took 3 hours of a little here, a little there before it looked like the pic I showed. 3 hours, a little at a time, not 45 minutes and boom the whole building.

 

[doc111]

lets not forget he put up a skyscraper that had it steel sections collapsing in the pictures as his proof.....




and nodrama im still waiting for you quote the part where you debunked the fires in debris field

......according to the "Truthers" steel won't fail in a highrise building (although numerous examples of structural steel failures due to fire as well as steel frame building collapses, and let's not forget the steel I-beams draped like limp spaghetti over the charred, but intact wooden beams.......all caused from "ordinary fires" alone, no structural damage taken from big assed jumbo jets flying into them and chunks of skyscraper raining down on top of any of them, loaded with burning debris which spread fire like the plague!). I do find this blatant denial of facts and hard evidence by the "Truthers" a little puzzling, but I guess we are all wired differently and some people want to believe in something that there is little evidence and no proof whatsoever that it even exists! I do agree with your assertion that this particular "conspiracy theory" is harmful.

 

[doc111]

The collapsing of the Windsor tower section is extremely good info. the section that did collapse took 3 hours of a little here, a little there before it looked like the pic I showed. 3 hours, a little at a time, not 45 minutes and boom the whole building.

Where's the plane that hit that building, 'cause I don't recall hearing of another jet flying into a skyscraper and causing a partial collapse? Surely one of my numerous firefighter friends would've brought it up since they know I am always interested in hearing about ANY incident involving a highrise.

 

[NoDrama]

If you would've read the whole post, I clearly state that I have been dealing with a FAMILY CRISIS for the last several days!

Oh, so it's ok if you don't respond because you have a "Family Crisis" but you just assume anyone else who doesn't answer YOUR posts right away must somehow be lacking in evidence or argument?

I was surprised to see Drama had posted to me after days and STILL is bringing nothing to the table in the way of evidence.

Please, take a moment to really think before you answer these questions (Take a couple of days if you need it! lol!).

 

[NoDrama]

Where's the plane that hit that building, 'cause I don't recall hearing of another jet flying into a skyscraper and causing a partial collapse? Surely one of my numerous firefighter friends would've brought it up since they know I am always interested in hearing about ANY incident involving a highrise.

Where is the airplane that hit WTC7?

 

[ginjawarrior]

The collapsing of the Windsor tower section is extremely good info. the section that did collapse took 3 hours of a little here, a little there before it looked like the pic I showed. 3 hours, a little at a time, not 45 minutes and boom the whole building.

what made it collapse didnt you say normal fire doesnt weaken steel enough for collapse

......according to the "Truthers" steel won't fail in a highrise building (although numerous examples of structural steel failures due to fire as well as steel frame building collapses, and let's not forget the steel I-beams draped like limp spaghetti over the charred, but intact wooden beams.......all caused from "ordinary fires" alone, no structural damage taken from big assed jumbo jets flying into them and chunks of skyscraper raining down on top of any of them, loaded with burning debris which spread fire like the plague!). I do find this blatant denial of facts and hard evidence by the "Truthers" a little puzzling, but I guess we are all wired differently and some people want to believe in something that there is little evidence and no proof whatsoever that it even exists! I do agree with your assertion that this particular "conspiracy theory" is harmful.

its textbook cognitive dissonance i cant imagine how hard he's having to dance around in his own head to make his "facts" fit

i dont think we're gonna change his mind but at least if someone else reads this thread theres some reality put forth so they can make better informed opinions and actually honor the lost that day

Where is the airplane that hit WTC7?

I already gave you reasons why, do you not read them? Selective amnesia?

must be....

care to quote it to refresh my memory?

still waiting

 

[NoDrama]

what made it collapse didnt you say normal fire doesnt weaken steel enough for collapse

Actually what I said was that a fire 100 stories up does not weaken the entire building's steel so that the whole thing collapses after a short 45 Minutes of burning. I also said that ordinary fire does not MELT steel, melting and weakening are totally different things.

If you can't do your own homework to find something to prove your argument, don't expect me to do the work for you. You got something to prove? Then prove it.

 

[ginjawarrior]

Actually what I said was that a fire 100 stories up does not weaken the entire building's steel so that the whole thing collapses after a short 45 Minutes of burning. I also said that ordinary fire does not MELT steel, melting and weakening are totally different things.

If you can't do your own homework to find something to prove your argument, don't expect me to do the work for you. You got something to prove? Then prove it.

i agree with you ordinary fire doesn't melt steel but it does weaken it enough that it can no longer carry the 20-30 stories worth of weight

you will then go on to say but there was "melted steel found in the debris"

and then we say really can you prove it? how did it get there

you say thermite and bring in a couple of quotes about melted metal

we then explain how thermite wouldnt keep steel melted once i had burnt out

THEN being really generous i gave you the point about melted steel being there and GAVE a mundane explanation about how weeks of fire in the debris could easily provide the right conditions for "melted steel"

you then go back to show pictures of skyscrapes on fire and claim fire cant take them down


AND IM STILL WAITING FOR YOUR QUOTES ON HOW THE DEBRIS FIRES WOULDNT GET THAT HOT

its a merry old dance your playing but you still got nothing and its glaringly obvious

 

[ginjawarrior]

heres a present for you and your beloved thermite..

while thermite does burn very hot very fast the heat energy stored in it (mainly due to it storing its own oxygen) is much lower than pretty much any other hydro carbon combustable

Thermite Fe2O3(s) + 2Al(s) -> Al2O3(s) + 2Fe(s) = 1,111 Wh/kg
Diesel = 13,762 Wh/kg
Gasoline = 12,200 Wh/kg
Wood = 3154 +/-1554 Wh/kg
Varies with
type of wood and
moisture content

thats not even talking about the jet fuel just the office interiors, the storage tanks and the cars in underground car park

when your talking about what would have provided enough heat energy to make "rivers of molten metal" your really bringing a cap gun to a machine gun fight when you shrilly cry "THERMITE!!!"

 

[NoDrama]

i agree with you ordinary fire doesn't melt steel but it does weaken it enough that it can no longer carry the 20-30 stories worth of weight

you will then go on to say but there was "melted steel found in the debris"

and then we say really can you prove it? how did it get there

you say thermite and bring in a couple of quotes about melted metal

we then explain how thermite wouldnt keep steel melted once i had burnt out

THEN being really generous i gave you the point about melted steel being there and GAVE a mundane explanation about how weeks of fire in the debris could easily provide the right conditions for "melted steel"

you then go back to show pictures of skyscrapes on fire and claim fire cant take them down


AND IM STILL WAITING FOR YOUR QUOTES ON HOW THE DEBRIS FIRES WOULDNT GET THAT HOT

its a merry old dance your playing but you still got nothing and its glaringly obvious

Wow , you guessed all of those things didn't you? I never once mentioned thermite, you lose, again. If you don't even know what I said, and instead you just try to put words in my mouth it means you have no logically defensible position and henceforth all your arguments are moot as you cannot argue against someone who just spews lies.

You can wait all you want, I already told you to find it yourself. I aint your bitch.

 

[NoDrama]

heres a present for you and your beloved thermite..

while thermite does burn very hot very fast the heat energy stored in it (mainly due to it storing its own oxygen) is much lower than pretty much any other hydro carbon combustable

Thermite Fe2O3(s) + 2Al(s) -> Al2O3(s) + 2Fe(s) = 1,111 Wh/kg
Diesel = 13,762 Wh/kg
Gasoline = 12,200 Wh/kg
Wood = 3154 +/-1554 Wh/kg
Varies with
type of wood and
moisture content

thats not even talking about the jet fuel just the office interiors, the storage tanks and the cars in underground car park

when your talking about what would have provided enough heat energy to make "rivers of molten metal" your really bringing a cap gun to a machine gun fight when you shrilly cry "THERMITE!!!"

Still lost eh? Need a map? Don't even know who you are arguing against.

 

[ginjawarrior]

Still lost eh? Need a map? Don't even know who you are arguing against.

i know very whom i'm arguing against

there's a very good reason why you continue to stay so vague and switching between "theories"



the moment you start being specific about any of them it becomes very very easy to debunk you

you might not be my bitch but god damn you are one hell of a dumb bitch

 

[ginjawarrior]

ok nodrama what perturbs you about molten metal at ground zero debris site?

 

[ginjawarrior]

Wow , you guessed all of those things didn't you? I never once mentioned thermite, you lose, again. If you don't even know what I said, and instead you just try to put words in my mouth it means you have no logically defensible position and henceforth all your arguments are moot as you cannot argue against someone who just spews lies.

You can wait all you want, I already told you to find it yourself. I aint your bitch.

i said in another thread been watching your shit for 2 years now

NoDrama

Marijuana EXPERT Mr. Ganja

Join DateJul 2007LocationI come from the land of the ice and snow, From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.Posts10,342

LOL and THEN you link buildings that aren't even steel reinforced, both of your links are of small( less than 10 stories) masonry (brick) buildings. There is no resemblence to a 47 story steel structure, like comparing apples and screwdrivers. So far you have proven my point even more..thanks

Oh and the second link doesn't look like free fall to me, looks like there is some resistance there as you can plainly see the whole building doesn't fall straight down, not in either of your links. Pure rubbish. You might wanna stop before the hole you have been digging for yourself gets too deep to climb out of. Olosto learned this point a few posts ago.

Your right I am a munitions expert, I was a combat engineer in the Govt service and have blown up many things with many different types of explosives. Wanna know what kind of item can cut through steel and weaken a building so severely and it does not go boom? Its called Thermite and its extremely easy to make out of totally easy to get and LEGAL supplies. Hell I can make Thermite in my garage, its very easy to do, just need rust and aluminum and a small piece of magnesium to get the process to start. You should look into it sometime and learn something new today.

Heat is not fire, if it were, your stove would have flames coming out of it when you cooked, cuz like you said heat is fire. Now my stove has these hot glowing electrically operated coils in it, there is never a fire.


One more thing, if you watch the videos you can CLEARLY hear the explosions go off before the building starts to blow, also you forgot about all the people that swear they heard explosions before the buildings fell. Not to mention the Janitor guy Rodriguez who was the only survivor and he clearly states that there were explosions even before the plane hit.​

never say never otherwise you'll show yourself up to look like a right tit
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