trying to figure out the best time to start cure

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poplars

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I've been trying to follow intuitive methods of curing, and basically I understand the cycles of burping and closing, but where I'm confused is precisely how much moisture should be left in the bud before it is jarred.

I have read that when the bigger buds feel crispy on the outside with some bend on the inside that is the time, but I'm just uncertain.

could anyone who's been doing this for years elaborate on this? I've heard FDD smokes a doob and if it stays lit it is time, and if this works legit then the only question to that would be do you roll the doob from big buds exclusively when doing this test?
 

steampick

Active Member
Good question, and one I'm getting better a figuring out with each new harvest.

Basically, I smoke it while it's being cured. It's already been dried for 5-6 so it is smokeable. But just looking at the bud, or smelling the jar is pretty vague stuff.
To really know if it's ready, you've got to work with it. Put it in the spinner and roll it up. I decide to jar it for good when the pot breaks up the way I like it.

That's the crux, though. What I like and what you like could be very different. I also find that the looser sativa bud will take far longer to dry out, and may never get to the crispy, hard nugget that many indica-dom nugs get to.

Oops, just re-read your post and you wanna know more how long it should dry for. I still go with the old stem snap test. If the stem snaps, it's a bit too dry. If it just bends, it's good to jar. This test I perform between 3-5 days of drying, depending on how close I've trimmed the bud (super-trimmed bud dries much faster).
 

poplars

Well-Known Member
sounds legit I started trimming some of it today and it seemed a lil too damp on some buds less on others so I'm putting it all in a brown bag for a day or two, gonna seal the brown bag up tonight and open up tomorrow morning to judge.
 

iamgman

Active Member
sounds legit I started trimming some of it today and it seemed a lil too damp on some buds less on others so I'm putting it all in a brown bag for a day or two, gonna seal the brown bag up tonight and open up tomorrow morning to judge.
Smart. Thats what I did. I use hygrometers so know where the jars sit WRT RH. If they pop over 70, they noticable feel damp. No more outside crispy crispy at this RH. So I put into the bag or a least back on the rack for a 1/2 day or so. Then try again in the jar and watch it. I did put a top I pulled early in a plastic baggie for whatever reason after rack dry and forgot it a few daze.. it molded and was flushed. All my jars are good to go. Never got the hay smell as well :) 2-4 weeks into cure and when I burp my jars.. the room smells sweeeeeet.
 

Jogro

Well-Known Member
First things first. All "curing" is, is a controlled really slow drying.

There isn't an "exact definite" time when you need to put the buds into glass for curing. You just want them to be mostly but not entirely dry, and the main reason is because if you enclose them into glass too early, you're greatly increasing the chance for mold to form. Also, the buds do lose most of their volume and weight in the initial dry, and ideally you want this to happen before your cure so your volumes don't change too much after jarring.

Some people say its optimal to jar the buds when the small stems are just dry enough to snap, and that's probably a good rule of thumb. I like to do it earlier. Basically when the buds feel completely dry to the touch, you're probably OK to jar. Usually that takes about 5 days of air-drying, give or take. It might take less if you're drying in low humidity with warm temperatures, or more at low temps/high humidity. Also, physical characteristics of your buds matter too. Dense heavy buds will take noticeably longer to dry than thin wispy ones.

The most important point is this: the earlier you put the bud into glass, the "wetter" it will be, and the more frequently you'll have to open ("burp") the jars to ventilate out excess moisture. In other words, it is possible to "correct" for putting the buds in too early *IF* you frequently check on them and "burp" them to make sure they don't stay too wet. If they're really wet/soft then (depending on how they're packed) leaving the lid of the jar entirely off overnight (or longer) is one way to get them to dry more. Alternatively, you can dump out all the buds into a paper bag overnight, etc. The main thing again, is do NOT leave really wet buds in a sealed jar for any length of time, or they WILL get moldy.

Best way to know if they're too "wet" is just to feel them. They can feel "spongy" (ie they flex when you press on them) but they shouldn't feel "soft" (as in "mushing" when you press on them). If the individual buds feel really soft they're too wet. This is a little hard to explain in words, which is why curing is an "art", but isn't actually all that hard to tell what's about right, and you'll get it quickly with a little experience. As the buds cure, they'll go from green leaf colored, to dull green, to green-tan.

As to when they're ready, that's tougher. At the very minimum, they'll need to be dry enough to remain lit when burned. I'd say not less than two weeks in the jar for something approaching a minimal cure. Longer is better, with 4 full weeks probably a good target. The buds will probably continue to improve somewhat with age after that, albeit at a slower rate.
 

dannyboy602

Well-Known Member
First things first. All "curing" is, is a controlled really slow drying.
At the very minimum, they'll need to be dry enough to remain lit when burned. I'd say not less than two weeks in the jar for something approaching a minimal cure. Longer is better, with 4 full weeks probably a good target. The buds will probably continue to improve somewhat with age after that, albeit at a slower rate.
That about sums it up. Put Cal3 hygrometers in the jars (eBay) and watch the numbers. The cure zone is between 60 and 65Rh. The longer you keep it there the smoother it becomes. I haven't smoked anything yet cured for more than six weeks. And I think it's pretty good stuff. I read where guys will cure for 9 months or longer but who has patience for that? Not me.
 

poplars

Well-Known Member
well I always end up having stuff that has been curing that long because with outdoor harvests its not that we have the patience to do that, it's that we have the /quantity/ to do that... we grow enough for it to last the entire year, so I only get one shot at whatever curing method I decide to do for the rest of the year.


I've decided I'm going to do the cure when the small stems snap.

thanks for all your useful responses everyone. I appreciate it.
 

gwhunran

Well-Known Member
Poplars, make sure and wash the jars before use. Many have an unpleasant odor when new. You may already know this but just in case.
I am still enjoying the green dragon. I find myself doing it more than smoking.
 

poplars

Well-Known Member
Poplars, make sure and wash the jars before use. Many have an unpleasant odor when new. You may already know this but just in case.
I am still enjoying the green dragon. I find myself doing it more than smoking.
ah did I help you w/ a tincture recipe in the past or something???


good tip on the wash new jars before use, I'll remember that.
 

oHsiN666

Well-Known Member
i have something you may want to read. been lots of questions lately about curing and drying. guess its that time of year. here is what i found:

The Cure
Oh yes, the cure. Many times has this been judged the most important part of the growing experience, and with good standing reason. This is the point where all our patience and skill will shine through, or take a dive into the miserable oblivian of smoking mere mediocre herb. Botch things here and it will all be for not. Though a perfect cure can help cover up some small discrepancies during your grow, having the best growing conditions on earth will not earn you a free pass through this hallowed gate my friend.

So, how's your cure? Perfect? Consistantly perfect? Are you a Cure Master? Hmm.. Prove it. What?

Did you know that your cure can be broken down into a mathematical equation? What if I told you that you can attain the perfect cure, the best cure possible, every single harvest? And what if it was as easy as painting by numbers? And what if this could totally affect the way you cure, wether you are a newbie, or an old seasoned head?

The following is not something I discovered myself. I was first introduced to it from a guy named Simon. All though he initially taylored it to cannabis he, of course, didn't really discover it either. We most likey owe that to producers of tobacco. Their techniques are somewhat different but since they are curing a plant intended for smoking..... Well, it's just simply a matter of numbers.. I have, in turn, borrowed this concept and brought it here. I have eliminated what I deemed unneccessary and added some of my own insights/experiences. I have also condensed the original information the best I could (as it was quite haphazardly introduced, and many facts/ideas were addressed in later installments) in my own words (which has, in turn, increased greatly in size), but all credit must be afforded Simon for bringing these techniques, in their raw form, to public scrutiny. This, by no means, suggests that the work (either the original, or here) is complete. There are assuredly many more facts, discoveries and techniques left to be uncovered. That said, let's begin..

Cannabis is an annual weed. It's purpose in life is singular and pure: Continued propagation. The female cannabis plant, through it's propagating qualities is naturally the ultimate focuse of this forum, along with many others just like it. In order for the female cannabis plant to fulfill her destiny, and to fill our jars, like all life on earth she needs water. Her flowering buds are full of it. It is the point of drying them to release this water. The cure, on the other hand, is a bit more complicated. In contrast, the cure is an attempt to delay this release of water over time. It is this juggling act that is in dire need of deciphering and it is this thread that will show exactly how it is done. It is said that the bud of a cannabis plant continues to live for a certain amount of time after it is cut from it's stem ( per Ed Rosenthal), in some cases a couple of days. I personally think this is crazy. This is akin to cutting off a chickens head. A lot of good it did the chicken.. Unless your bud has the ability to sprout instant roots and walk itself to an empty pot it is, for all intensive purposes, d, e, a, d, dead. This, by no means, insinuates that there are not living cells and processes to be found, but without the ability to replenish water, the drying has begun. Even though the bud has begun it's dry cycle, there is still plenty of water in it to allow various cells to continue to function. Since the main stem has been cut they have no choice but to pull water and nutrients (in the form of clorophyl and other complex carbohydrates) from stores in the bud and process them into simple carbohydrates (simple sugars) in order to continue to function normally. The more complex carbohydrates that are broken down and the more simple carbohydrates that are used and the more moisture that is lost, the better your buds will be. Within this process is the secret to the perfect cure..


First we will break it down into phases. This seems easiest as you can refer back to any point of the cure by phase. Try to think of it like landing an airplane...

Phase one: The dry. This is kind of like preparing to land. The first thing you want to do is come to altitude and lower your landing gear. Basically, once you cut your bud, you need to decide what to do with it. Most of us go ahead and trim it now. Once it is trimmed to our liking, the bud is hung to dry.

Phase two: The pre-cure. This is somewhat like landing your airplane. The trick is to set it down on the runway at just the right angle as you begin to reduce your speed. This is where the mathematics come into play. What you are looking for here is the "feel". When your hanging bud begins to "feel" like it is drying out, but the stems are still flexible, it is time to jar. Don't worry, we will revisit this phase in more detail in a bit..

Phase three: The cure. Now your airplane is on the runway. This is where you are focusing on your instruments and applying the brakes. This is the actual part of the cure. It is a benefit to keep your bud in this stage for as long as possible. Actually, this may be a little misleading as some folks may like some cures better than others. In other words, this is the point where smells and flavors can change drastically. Depending on what it is you are after will dictate exactly how long you keep this phase in check. But only you can decide what you like.

Phase four: Storage. Well, the flight is over, time to put the airplane away. We have finally reached a point where the curing process has greatly slowed down and it is safe to store your bud.



Hygrometer is needed.

Phase one. 70% RH: This starts out just like any other time you have done it. Once you have harvested your bud and trimmed it to your liking, hang it in a cool dark place. This is where we will part from tradition. Allow it to hang until the buds begin to feel like they are drying (note the temps and rh as this will rarely be the same during subsequent harvests). They will start to lose their "softness" in favor of a slightly crispy texture. We don't want to allow it to dry until the stems snap. THIS IS WRONG! We want the stems to be flexible. Not totally soft, but not snapping, either. If allowed to dry until the stems snap we risk it drying too much and losing an opportunity to take full advantage of the cure window. You see once the bud reaches the 55% RH range, the cure is dead. No amount of moisture added will revive this. If you are a brown bag dryer you can still use this technique, although I no longer do. I feel it is unneccessary at this point in the drying process. Just make sure you do not over dry. Also, this is a perfect time to calibrate your hygrometers with your new calibrating kit. This phase may take anywhere from 2 to 7 days depending on ambient temp, RH and strain, etc. It is important to be right on top of this phase. Sometimes we will notice thinner stemmed buds getting done quicker. It is ok to take these first and put them in the jar. Just screw the cap on very loosely until the bulk of the bud joins it.



Phase two. 65%+ to 70%RH: This is where the numbers game begins to kick in. Once you have reached the crispy bud/flexible stem stage, it is time to jar it up. Now there are a few options here.. Really you can jar it up just like always. Only, fill your jar 3/4 to 4/5 full so you have room to use your hygrometer. You can leave it on the stem, stem free, whatever. I personally prefer it in it's finished state, no stems. You can leave just a few stems intact for the sake of testing stem flexibility. Also, with more stems comes more moisture. This may fit well with your style, but it also may play havoc if mold is present. Once your bud is in the jar drop in the hygrometer and cap it. Keep an eye on your meter for the next hour or so. What we are shooting for in this phase is 70% RH maximum. If you hit 71% or greater, you will have to take the bud out to dry more. If this seems a little tricky here, it is. The cure, even though we are still in the dry phase, has been happening to a small degree since the moment the bud was cut. Basically now we are juggling time with mold prevention. We want to avoid any instance of mold, but we want to get every second of cure time in that we can. The goal in this phase is to start at a 70% maximum RH and, in a timely and mold free manner, bring the RH down to about 65%. The reason I say "about" is that if there is an issue with mold (i.e. the crop was exposed to heavy mold before and/or during harvest) we may chose to take the RH even lower, like 62%. This won't leave a huge window for curing, but it will keep the bud safe. Ideally, however, 65% will do. Generally you can tell pretty quickly if the bud is still too wet as the hygrometer % will climb pretty quickly (rate: 1% per hour or faster). You will also notice, at this point, that the bud will feel "wetter". That's ok. The reason for this is that while the exposed part of the bud began to dry quicker than the inside during phase one, the inside of the bud and stems retained a good deal of their moisture. Once in the jars (phase two) that moisture can no longer be efficiently evaperated off and moved to a different area, being replaced by dryer air. Once you have determined the RH, which may take up to 24 hours, you can begin burping the jars. This can be done at a rate of one to two hours once or twice a day, depending on initial RH reading. Your room RH, temp, strain, exposure to mold and hygro readings will dictate this for you and wether to go faster or slower. Slower is always better, but precipitating factors, as stated, may trump this.. Also, at the end of this stage is where most commercial bud will hit the open market, if you are lucky. The bud at this stage should have that super sticky icky velvety feel and the 'bag appeal' will be at it's very highest.





Phase three, 60% to 65% RH: Your buds are in the jar and RH is 65% or less. Perfect. The object of the game, as stated before, is to slowly release the moisture from the jar over time. Your buds are now in the cure zone. At this point we are looking for a much slower release than phase two and will shift to a short burp once a week. Your buds will deliver a nice smoke at around 60%, so the speed at which this is done (which translates directly to duration of burpage) is entirely up to you. It is at this stage that small stems should snap in two. It is also in this stage that you will meet true stability, or equalization, in RH. What that means is that the amount of moisture in the stems is no longer disproportionate to the buds, and moisture transfer or persperation (sweat) slows dramatically. This also means it will take much longer to get a true reading from your Hygrometer. A true reading at this point might take up to 36 hours, but that's ok.

So, do you know what your idea of a perfect smoking bud is? If you have followed the phases as you have read them, then this is the stage where you can find out. It may be as specific as a stationary RH value, or even a "window" between different values. Everyone one should know there ideal smoking range. I prefer mine on a slightly dryer cure, say between 55 to 57%.




Phase four - 55%+ to 60%RH: Even though a true cure is far from over, your buds are truly ready to smoke if you wish. They are also ready to face long term storage. As stated before, the cure dies at -55%. It's ok for the cure to be dead if you have reached your desired cure level as later remoisturing can easily bring that bud back into your prefered smoking range. But, you can also continue the cure for long time periods and the trick to this is to stay above the 55% level. Unfortunately even claimed 'air tight' jars will allow bud to continue losing moisture over time. The trick here is to guarantee air tightness. Simon has suggested that he jars in air tight jars and double vacuum bags it as a way to ensure cure integrity. I am less picky. It is a good idea, though not neccessary, to leave a hygro in the jar and check it from time to time. I would start with once a week for the first month then, if everything is stable, once every month after that should suffice.
 

poplars

Well-Known Member
sorry the second that guide said you need a hygrometer I was instantly like 'fuck this.'


sorry, seriously not interested in investing in anything like that. already know how to cure, already know when to start cure based on the doobie method, thanks for all your responses, this thread is no longer needed, thanks.
 
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