Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
What??????? And give up the Big Bud powder!??? Blasphemy I say!!!!!! (points finger) Everyone knows a 1-17-38 produces da big Bud.
Snake Oil, Horticultural Myths, Horticultural Urban Legends, and Persuaders
- Thread starter Uncle Ben
- Start date
watchhowIdoit
New Member
Love the sarcasm you grouchy old fart....
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Acid/hydroxide? Now there's an oxymoron. Can you say neutralized? I knew you could (obviously).
Yeah, it's about as stand alone as my.....
Root Formation - Canna recommends using Aqua Vega A & B and Rhizontonic.
Vegetative Stage - Canna recommends using Aqua Vega A & B, Rhizontonic and CannaZym.
Blooming Phase - Canna recommends using Aqua Flores A & B, Rhizontonic, CannaZym and CannaBoost Accelerator, adding PK 13/14 once small fruits develop.
Too bad you can't find out what's in it, but that's OK, you'll fall for most anything not knowing whats in it, eh? "Cause someone says IT WORKS!"
Typical chart shit for MJ nerds: http://www.4hydroponics.com/manuals/cannaAqua.pdf
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Thanks. I'm just now getting wound up hehe.
Ogsmokealot
Member
Actually im using house and garden nutes.
Sometimes I'm not sure whether you're an idiot or you're just playing one.
Obviously you don't lower and increase your pH at the same time.
You can find their MSDS and call them for ingredients, just like I do with any new product.
Yes, a company will try to sell you extra fertilizer, just like your chemical companies make an orchid formula, a african violet formula, a cacti formula, a rose formula, a evergreen formula, a grass formula, etc. If you know anything about horticulture, you know you can use any of those or even 20-20-20.
Knowing by experience that A+B is just a simple pure and chelated chemical nutrient solution, and it works fine, is not marketing. If I were to use some blue soluble off the shelf fertilizer, I'd likely get many issues due to it being an unrefined contaminant laden non-enthusiast (clueless) consumer product. Hydroponics require pure salts due to pumps, misters, various irrigation equip being prone to clogging. Flushing acid through piping is a VERY tedious chore.
Now, I've worked in hydro greenhouse complexes bigger than your farmland UB, and I know I could just buy the individual salts, calculate a ppm formula and have my own pure nutrients for a fraction of the cost: except time spent and material necessary, not to count warehousing space... It's not as time efficient.
It's a good product to use without additives, in a hydroponic medium.
I understand you're against cannabis marketing, and so am I. The problem is you're so extreme on it you're like a fundamentalist refusing to hear nothing but your own doctrine, even when you're horribly outdated by cannabis-unrelated horticultural documentation. That tells me you're either a moron on purpose, or some ideologist stuck in his ways. It's a hard call.
Obviously you don't lower and increase your pH at the same time.
You can find their MSDS and call them for ingredients, just like I do with any new product.
Yes, a company will try to sell you extra fertilizer, just like your chemical companies make an orchid formula, a african violet formula, a cacti formula, a rose formula, a evergreen formula, a grass formula, etc. If you know anything about horticulture, you know you can use any of those or even 20-20-20.
Knowing by experience that A+B is just a simple pure and chelated chemical nutrient solution, and it works fine, is not marketing. If I were to use some blue soluble off the shelf fertilizer, I'd likely get many issues due to it being an unrefined contaminant laden non-enthusiast (clueless) consumer product. Hydroponics require pure salts due to pumps, misters, various irrigation equip being prone to clogging. Flushing acid through piping is a VERY tedious chore.
Now, I've worked in hydro greenhouse complexes bigger than your farmland UB, and I know I could just buy the individual salts, calculate a ppm formula and have my own pure nutrients for a fraction of the cost: except time spent and material necessary, not to count warehousing space... It's not as time efficient.
It's a good product to use without additives, in a hydroponic medium.
I understand you're against cannabis marketing, and so am I. The problem is you're so extreme on it you're like a fundamentalist refusing to hear nothing but your own doctrine, even when you're horribly outdated by cannabis-unrelated horticultural documentation. That tells me you're either a moron on purpose, or some ideologist stuck in his ways. It's a hard call.
watchhowIdoit
New Member
Well bend over and somebody throw another cola in the fire!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5Q2rH8HpOM
Osmocote Plus for President...........
Wolverine97
Well-Known Member
See, now this thread is a productive use of your time. I mean that in all honesty.
Joedank
Well-Known Member
As far as soil-conditioning is concerned -- and that is all we are to consider for the moment -- bacterial activity in the presence of seaweed has two results: first the secretion of substances which further help to condition the soil; and second, an effect on the nitrogen content of the soil. We will deal with these in turn.
The substances secreted by soil bacteria in the presence of seaweed include organic chemicals known as polyuronides. Polyuronides are chemically similar to the soil conditioner alginic acid, whose direct effect on the soil we have already noticed, and themselves have soil-stabilizing properties. This means that to the soil-conditioning agent which the soil derives from undecomposed seaweed -- alginic acid -- other conditioning agents are later added: the polyuronides, which result from the decomposition of seaweed.
The second effect of adding seaweed, or seaweed meal, to a soil well populated with bacteria, has already been mentioned briefly. It is a more complex matter, and requires consideration in some detail. Basically, the addition of seaweed leads to a temporary diminution of nitrogen available for crops, then a considerable augmentation of the nitrogen total.
When seaweed, or indeed any undecomposed organic matter, is put into the soil, it is attacked by bacteria which break the material down into simpler units -- in a word, decompose it. To do this effectively the bacteria need nitrogen, and this they take from the first available source, the soil. This means that after seaweed has been added to the soil, there is a period during which the amount of soil nitrogen available to plants is reduced. During this period seed germination, and the feeding and growth of plants, can be inhibited to greater or lesser degree. This temporary nitrogen deficiency is brought about when any undecomposed vegetable matter is added to the soil. In the case of straw, for example, which is ploughed in after harvest, bacteria use up soil nitrogen in breaking down its cellulose, so that a 'latent' period follows. Farmers burn stubble after harvest to avoid this latent period, and the short-term loss of available nitrogen which causes it. But such stubble-burning is done at the cost of soil structure, soil fertility, and long-term supplies of nitrogen which ultimately would have been released from the decomposed straw.
It has been said by one authority that the latent period following the application of seaweed to the soil is one of fifteen weeks. But during this period, while there is a temporary shortage of available nitrogen, total nitrogen in the soil is being increased. This increase makes itself felt after the seaweed is completely broken down. Total nitrogen then becomes available to the plant, and there is a corresponding upsurge in plant growth.
thought you should give it a think....
The substances secreted by soil bacteria in the presence of seaweed include organic chemicals known as polyuronides. Polyuronides are chemically similar to the soil conditioner alginic acid, whose direct effect on the soil we have already noticed, and themselves have soil-stabilizing properties. This means that to the soil-conditioning agent which the soil derives from undecomposed seaweed -- alginic acid -- other conditioning agents are later added: the polyuronides, which result from the decomposition of seaweed.
The second effect of adding seaweed, or seaweed meal, to a soil well populated with bacteria, has already been mentioned briefly. It is a more complex matter, and requires consideration in some detail. Basically, the addition of seaweed leads to a temporary diminution of nitrogen available for crops, then a considerable augmentation of the nitrogen total.
When seaweed, or indeed any undecomposed organic matter, is put into the soil, it is attacked by bacteria which break the material down into simpler units -- in a word, decompose it. To do this effectively the bacteria need nitrogen, and this they take from the first available source, the soil. This means that after seaweed has been added to the soil, there is a period during which the amount of soil nitrogen available to plants is reduced. During this period seed germination, and the feeding and growth of plants, can be inhibited to greater or lesser degree. This temporary nitrogen deficiency is brought about when any undecomposed vegetable matter is added to the soil. In the case of straw, for example, which is ploughed in after harvest, bacteria use up soil nitrogen in breaking down its cellulose, so that a 'latent' period follows. Farmers burn stubble after harvest to avoid this latent period, and the short-term loss of available nitrogen which causes it. But such stubble-burning is done at the cost of soil structure, soil fertility, and long-term supplies of nitrogen which ultimately would have been released from the decomposed straw.
It has been said by one authority that the latent period following the application of seaweed to the soil is one of fifteen weeks. But during this period, while there is a temporary shortage of available nitrogen, total nitrogen in the soil is being increased. This increase makes itself felt after the seaweed is completely broken down. Total nitrogen then becomes available to the plant, and there is a corresponding upsurge in plant growth.
thought you should give it a think....
RalphCurtis
Member
Aside from the fact that article was very poorly written...there was nothing new there. I am surprised anyone would cite it.Written by one of the best, Jim Downer, Ph.D from the University of Davis, California. Read it an weep.
http://ceventura.ucdavis.edu/newsletters/Topics_in_Subtropics39882.pdf
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
You're the one combining an acid with a base and calling it cool. I'm calling it buffering one against the other, or, "stupid is as stupid does".
UB
Samwell Seed Well
Well-Known Member
i have never said i was perfect, but i will totally purchase, and grow exactly how you want, not necessarily your formula not asking for secrets just your proof that you or anyone can attain better results then they are currently with a synthesized organics lines like H&G or canna, and better means better, cleaner is best , i like real Top shelf, so show me the greenAcid/hydroxide? Now there's an oxymoron. Can you say neutralized? I knew you could (obviously).
Yeah, it's about as stand alone as my.....
Root Formation - Canna recommends using Aqua Vega A & B and Rhizontonic.
Vegetative Stage - Canna recommends using Aqua Vega A & B, Rhizontonic and CannaZym.
Blooming Phase - Canna recommends using Aqua Flores A & B, Rhizontonic, CannaZym and CannaBoost Accelerator, adding PK 13/14 once small fruits develop.
Too bad you can't find out what's in it, but that's OK, you'll fall for most anything not knowing whats in it, eh? "Cause someone says IT WORKS!"
Typical chart shit for MJ nerds: http://www.4hydroponics.com/manuals/cannaAqua.pdf
so basically im saying ill run a avg joe, comparison against canna, and ill document it all they way, cost, production and everything its up to you, not that you have anything to prove, im just very curious
what kind of grower would i be if i didnt try and better myself, or test my results agaisnt other better recipes . . . . ? and i am a novise but if your techniques are so good, it should be able to be replicated . .. . . by anyone
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
You really don't get it, do you? I only seek out non-partisan, university type field studies and do not give any credibility to anything some stoner journals in a cannabis forum. Ever wonder why?
UB
Samwell Seed Well
Well-Known Member
no i understand why, the results would never be qualified by any means, but i wonder now, what is your purpose here is you will not share any actual break troughs or real techniques or nutrient regiments or soils or anything
what do you do? Do you even grow pot?
i want to be a better grower so i can donate quality medicine to patients and medical dispensaries and so on, i give my medicine for free to my patients and i want to give them the best
why are you apart of the " we do not know what is in it or how it is done" problem
so what is up, you shit on most everything but will not help other than to give suggestions that are as vague as christian doctrines
WHATS UP?
and news flash, University programs are funded by money too, that is a not "non-partisan"
every program within a school, college or university is paid for by donations toward what the education community is going toward, which is driven by the commercial community that will hire these potential employees
that is definitely a vested interest and definitely biased toward competitors that pay for research to be done in certain fields as well,
schools are just as biased as any company ad campaign, they just hide it in the category of education
when did graduate from a University?
what do you do? Do you even grow pot?
i want to be a better grower so i can donate quality medicine to patients and medical dispensaries and so on, i give my medicine for free to my patients and i want to give them the best
why are you apart of the " we do not know what is in it or how it is done" problem
so what is up, you shit on most everything but will not help other than to give suggestions that are as vague as christian doctrines
WHATS UP?
and news flash, University programs are funded by money too, that is a not "non-partisan"
every program within a school, college or university is paid for by donations toward what the education community is going toward, which is driven by the commercial community that will hire these potential employees
that is definitely a vested interest and definitely biased toward competitors that pay for research to be done in certain fields as well,
schools are just as biased as any company ad campaign, they just hide it in the category of education
when did graduate from a University?
cannawizard
Well-Known Member
**if this is gonna get Fugly, please just keep the jabs above waist please... no cheap shots either..
--debate away
--debate away
Samwell Seed Well
Well-Known Member
no, ill behave, i just dont see how someone can condemn others for using their techniques and nutrients yadda yadda yadda and provide zero, practical information
it just makes me think of a salesmen, they have plenty to say but it is never practical or beneficial, just hot air
i know nothing about uncle ben so if he is bonafide then, it will be obvious that im clueless of his prestigious expertise and experience as a MJ grower advocate
this is what they look like, for the most part, since i have used em, i always loose my charts and sometimes cant remember
not that is matters , but i haven't used aqau since 2005 but this what they look like at my snake oil sales store
it just makes me think of a salesmen, they have plenty to say but it is never practical or beneficial, just hot air
i know nothing about uncle ben so if he is bonafide then, it will be obvious that im clueless of his prestigious expertise and experience as a MJ grower advocate
and how old is that canna aqua feeding chart, i have never seen a canna pdf that is formatted like that, not sure if thats even a real canna aqua feeding chart , THE NETHERLANDS USE METRIC(your probably not getting the right canna info), i have only used them for 6 yrs
this is what they look like, for the most part, since i have used em, i always loose my charts and sometimes cant remember
Illumination
New Member
It is very obvious what you are though....
puffntuff
Well-Known Member
Good for veg
Nitrogenous fertilizers (or urea) support the plant during the growth of leaves and foliage. The NPK ratio of nitrogenous fertilizers varies, but in India a ratio of 4:2:1 is considered to be optimum for food crops, especially rice and wheat (nitrogen is four parts, phosphorus in two parts and potassium in one).
Phosphourous fertilizers
Phosphatic fertilizers are also called fruit-and-flowering fertilizers since they aid the growth of flowers and fruits in plants. Ideally, the NPK ratio of phosphorous fertilizers is in the ratio of 2:3:2 (nitrogen is two parts, phosphorus in three and potassium in two).
Potassium fertilizers
Potassium fertilisers are root fertilizers since they stimulate the growth of roots of plants. Ideally, the NPK ratio of potassium fertilizers is in the ratio of 2:2:3 (nitrogen is two parts, phosphorous in two and potassium in three).
Nitrogenous fertilizers (or urea) support the plant during the growth of leaves and foliage. The NPK ratio of nitrogenous fertilizers varies, but in India a ratio of 4:2:1 is considered to be optimum for food crops, especially rice and wheat (nitrogen is four parts, phosphorus in two parts and potassium in one).
Phosphourous fertilizers
Phosphatic fertilizers are also called fruit-and-flowering fertilizers since they aid the growth of flowers and fruits in plants. Ideally, the NPK ratio of phosphorous fertilizers is in the ratio of 2:3:2 (nitrogen is two parts, phosphorus in three and potassium in two).
Potassium fertilizers
Potassium fertilisers are root fertilizers since they stimulate the growth of roots of plants. Ideally, the NPK ratio of potassium fertilizers is in the ratio of 2:2:3 (nitrogen is two parts, phosphorous in two and potassium in three).
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Most of these comments do not dignify a response. You've got one (representative of another new crop of) noob who doesn't know who I am and is too lazy to search on my name to find out or ask those that knew me 13 years ago, another MJ nerd that is spouting feelings based on the Green propaganda machine, another who obviously did not read the link, or, fits in the all too prevalent category where reading comprehension is not their strongest suit.**if this is gonna get Fugly, please just keep the jabs above waist please... no cheap shots either..
--debate away
For the few that did read and comprehend the excellent paper written by some of the most brilliant horticultural minds out of California, you are now a richer and smarter consumer.
UB