Most Reliable / Desirable Ballast? Old Magnetic or New Digital

[Rrog]

I stand by my points.

I disagree there are well known points. I base that on not seeing much conversation about this at all, despite the fact that I have beeen extensively reading threads about all types of ballasts for the last three weeks. I've certainly read where some bulb / digital ballast combos don't fare well, but nothing that I can recall where specifically dialing down the digital ballast output affected anything other than the desired lumen drop. You're (I believe) saying the spectrum significantly changes and lamp lifespan drops. I'm simply saying that if this were true, it's astounding to me that these high tech ballasts are time bombs for lamps and the internet isn't all abuzz over this.

Is there some data somewhere that demonstrates this? Personally if this is so I'd like to know more about it before I go and buy a digital ballast and try this.

Lastly, I'm thinking that given this is my thread, I get the get out of troll jail free card.

 

[watchhowIdoit]

http://www.lrc.rpi.edu/programs/NLPIP/PDF/VIEW/SRHID.pdf lower left corner of page 5, color variation....more too it than what most think. Change in bulb position during its life just to add a new twist. Much more too it than setting a switch and screwing in a bulb. Yet it can be just that simple, once you understand the basic principles behind lighting...and use your HPS and MH bulbs for a couple of years with great results...

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

im my mind its basic chemistry

gas;s and elements or filaments have a current put through them, ohms law sates that if one part of the current is changed the others with change proportionately

so you figure it out, if some gas or filament is meant to burn at 600 degrees(1ks but that hot inside), half the watts and it will not reach its normal temperature because the resistance changes and the amperage changes

this basic understanding, what does results with a company's name mean at all when you dont even understand the basics of how your bulbs work

no results are needed, its science figure it out . . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium-vapor_lamp

http://www.scifun.org/chemweek/gasemit/gasemit.html\

also right from HORTILUX warranty page
http://www.eyehortilux.com/EQS-N-36-76-00003.pdf

EYE Lighting International of North America (“EYE Lighting&#8221 warrants HORTILUX® lamps to be free from defects
in material and workmanship during the period ending one year after the date of sale or, if unknown, after the date
of manufacture, provided that such lamps are operated on ballasts and luminaries that meet all applicable ANSI
specifications or, where no ANSI specifications exist, Iwasaki Electric and EYE Lighting specifications.



Does everyone understand the relationship between electricity and bulb, spectrum/bulb

this is so basic that its almost a crime that people try and grow and dont know anything about their equipment

 

[Rrog]

Wow. That is quite the article. Thanks for that. I will look into that further. Seriously, thank you. I see it’s a 15 year old article, so maybe there are some changes to some aspects of bulbs since then. Of note in that section you referenced:

Color shift can occur due to a change in supply voltage. Didn't say how much or in what wavelengths, and that's the crux of this.

MH is more susceptible than HPS, although "new MH lamps with ceramic discharge tubes undergo minimal color shift over time." So maybe they've improved since this was written?

 

[Rrog]

Samwell, I like the thought process. Curious, though, if what you say is so, then a 1000W HPS would have a different filament / gas than a 450W HPS. Is that the case?

 

[mike91sr]

Not backwards, on the money facts........

lol i ask where you got the info, you state that its just fact. Nice. Another guy repeating something he once heard. Oh and lumatek is reliable huh? Tell that to the people with burnt down houses and much less severe problems(including me, my lumatek burnt up in front of me....it sure felt reliable). Obviously not getting anything out of this.../end convo


samwell, thank you for actually providing info on the subject.

 

[Rrog]

EYE Lighting International of North America (“EYE Lighting&#8221 warrants HORTILUX® lamps to be free from defects
in material and workmanship during the period ending one year after the date of sale or, if unknown, after the date
of manufacture, provided that such lamps are operated on ballasts and luminaries that meet all applicable ANSI
specifications or, where no ANSI specifications exist, Iwasaki Electric and EYE Lighting specifications.

This doesn't say that using a dimable digital ballast is in conflict with ANSI standards. In fact, none of these cool links mention anything that supports a shortened bulb life when using the dim feature on a dimable ballast.

 

[ExtremeMetal43]

I dont by it that you can run a 600 watt bulb at less than 600 watts and get the same spectrum, penetration, and overall performance of the bulb. I think dimmables are a gimmick and i think the only reason you should dim them is so you can dim 1 K's while your working in the room but theyre not meant to run like that.

 

[Rrog]

I can't disagree, because I just don't know and can't find definitive info. Obviously others agree that dimming is a piss poor idea, but I'm looking for a spectrum measurement or such. Maybe there isn't any data. Maybe there's data but it doesn't look good so ballast companies bury it. Fuck if I know. Still seems weird that all these high end ballast companies are pushing a concept that pushes out a less desirable spectrum or shortens bulb life. I would absolutely have tested this if I were them. If I found it was bad, I'd launch a marketing campaign and expose my competitors. But that hasn't happened, and no one has an actual spectrum analysis.

 

[Rrog]

I have had minimal discussions with lamp and ballast tech departments. They are all over the board with this, and their #1 interest is not pissing of another company. Lamp guy doesn't want ballast man mad, etc. Only one claimed to have spectral data, but can't provide it. So either the data is bad, or there really is no data.

I can say that the bulb guys are not really enthusiastic about dimable ballasts. I get the feeling that some do the dimming better than others. One lamp company felt that using their lamp in a dimable ballast may void the lamp warranty.

This issue is far from over, and after having discussed this with these manufacturers, some independent testing should be done. I'm not getting a warm fuzzy about using dimmed systems.

 

[watchhowIdoit]

I have had minimal discussions with lamp and ballast tech departments. They are all over the board with this, and their #1 interest is not pissing of another company. Lamp guy doesn't want ballast man mad, etc. Only one claimed to have spectral data, but can't provide it. So either the data is bad, or there really is no data.

I can say that the bulb guys are not really enthusiastic about dimable ballasts. I get the feeling that some do the dimming better than others. One lamp company felt that using their lamp in a dimable ballast may void the lamp warranty.

This issue is far from over, and after having discussed this with these manufacturers, some independent testing should be done. I'm not getting a warm fuzzy about using dimmed systems.

Like I said earlier, match the bulb to your ballasts current setting for optimal performance...

 

[Rrog]

These guys were pretty down on the whole dimming thing : http://www.eyehortilux.com/ Obviously their new ballast isn't dimmable, so what else would they say. I'm not crazy about buying their expensive lamps to match up to their ballast.