Catholic Idolators

Shannon Alexander

Well-Known Member
As a somewhere near Christian, that has a firm belief in God if not the somewhat debatable God as described in Christian Holy texts, I read my bible more than a lot of full on Christians that I know and I have a serious question for anybody that is Catholic or was raised Catholic.

How do you personally reconcile your blatant disregard for the bibles rules on idolatry with your shrines, statues, portraits and talismans worshiping saints and praying for help from them..?

I am looking for a serious answer to my question.

What I am not looking for is anti religious remarks from athiests, If you wish to bash on peoples beliefs there are plenty of other threads that you are already doing that in, so please keep it out of here...
 

Landmark

Member
Shannon, in labeling oneself a Christian do you see that is idolatry, or no?
Another question, what is a firm belief in God? Do you believe
you have parent's, or do you have parents?
And, unfortunately, most likely what your going to get is a bunch of reactions from people to your question, as the nature of it is divisive AND comes from the world of morality, judgement. And the way judgment works is the moment you judge, you are judged yourself and suffer, do you see that, or not?
 

Carne Seca

Well-Known Member
Not trolling or bashing but a serious question.... Why does it matter to you?

And if you're truly looking for honest sincere dialog? Maybe your title should have been a tad less antagonistic.
 

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
As a somewhere near Christian, that has a firm belief in God if not the somewhat debatable God as described in Christian Holy texts, I read my bible more than a lot of full on Christians that I know and I have a serious question for anybody that is Catholic or was raised Catholic.

How do you personally reconcile your blatant disregard for the bibles rules on idolatry with your shrines, statues, portraits and talismans worshiping saints and praying for help from them..?

I am looking for a serious answer to my question.

What I am not looking for is anti religious remarks from athiests, If you wish to bash on peoples beliefs there are plenty of other threads that you are already doing that in, so please keep it out of here...
..."Thanks for your post, your questions are very important to us, please stay online and your post will be answered in rotation."

Kidding... :)

...you're a near christian, that's for sure. Already you point your scope at the Catholic tradition.

...so do you think any religion with shrines, etc. are idolatrous? This stems mainly from the super-fundamentalist believers. They don't like to wear shiny buttons - and excommunicate each other over arguments on how to install a wheel on a buggy.
 

Shannon Alexander

Well-Known Member
Carne Seca... I am purely curious about the answer to it, it doesn't overly matter to me, I wont be offended if I don't get an answer to it...

Landmark... I do have parents and my firm belief in God is just that I firmly believe that there is a God.

And I'm sorry if it may seem as though I am being judgemental as I am not intending to appear as such, it's just that as far as I can see the worshiping of Saints statues, shrines, posters, portraits, talismans etc... is idolatry and goes against the christian doctrine. I am curious to know how they feel it fits into Christianity... I am not saying that idolatry is wrong I am not judging, as it is the holy scriptures that they read says that idolatry wrong...
 

Shannon Alexander

Well-Known Member
I wasn't speaking about other religions, just specifically Catholicism and the shrines to saints that I have seen some people as having... Is it unjust that I ask a question about somebodies practice of faith that I see as most likely contradictory to what is in the literature they say their faith comes from, so I may get a better understanding of it..?
 

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
...Shannon. These are physical manifestations of a spiritual ideal. If they 'exist' on a spiritual plane, it follows that they will exist on a material plane. It's not particularly catholic. If you're referencing the statues that are pictured biblically it helps to see them as potentials, or ideals (or the opposite). Few people are buried with monuments beside them in their coffins, you know?

...also, there's nothing to reconcile - it is what it is... I mean that respectfully, of course.
 

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
I was raised Catholic, and had this same question, even as a child. I recently watched a documentary about Catholicism in Italy, specifically in Vatican City. After polling, they realized that Jesus was number seven on the list of most prayed to saints. NUMBER SEVEN! I can see why protestants have an issue with Catholicism conflicting with the Bible, but the Catholics I've spoken to don't seem to have a problem with it...
 

Shannon Alexander

Well-Known Member
Eye - I fully believe in different strokes for different folks, I would like to have somebody explain to me how worshiping a plaster model of man or woman that is dead isn't idolatry... perhaps I should find a catholic church and ask a priest about this matter...

Tyler - It is somewhat disturbing that followers of what is supposed to be christian faith would turn to other spirits for help, guidance or protection...
 

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
Eye - I fully believe in different strokes for different folks, I would like to have somebody explain to me how worshiping a plaster model of man or woman that is dead isn't idolatry... perhaps I should find a catholic church and ask a priest about this matter...

Tyler - It is somewhat disturbing that followers of what is supposed to be christian faith would turn to other spirits for help, guidance or protection...
...born and raised catholic and have had many a chat with priests. It's not the figurine - but what was represented. Much like television is now the vehicle for non-catholic 'worshipping'. I wish you well in your quest, but look deeper. These arent' surface materials you dig for.

...it's like the sun and worshipping its life giving qualities, but not the metal ball itself, f.e.
 

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
Eye - I fully believe in different strokes for different folks, I would like to have somebody explain to me how worshiping a plaster model of man or woman that is dead isn't idolatry... perhaps I should find a catholic church and ask a priest about this matter...

Tyler - It is somewhat disturbing that followers of what is supposed to be christian faith would turn to other spirits for help, guidance or protection...
Yes, it is disturbing. So is the ornateness of Catholicism and the fact that the Vatican is one of the wealthiest institutions on the planet. I can see why it's appealing for people to pray to specific saints who are specialists in certain areas (you are supposedly more likely to have your prayer answered by these specialist intermediaries), but it seems to go against the very first commandment. If you speak to a priest, let me know their justification for this...
 

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
Early in its history, Israel was forbidden to make any depictions of God because he had not revealed himself in a visible form. Given the pagan culture surrounding them, the Israelites might have been tempted to worship God in the form of an animal or some natural object (e.g., a bull or the sun).

But later God did reveal himself under visible forms, such as in Daniel 7:9: "As I looked, thrones were placed and one that was Ancient of Days took his seat; his raiment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like pure wool; his throne was fiery flames, its wheels were burning fire." Protestants make depictions of the Father under this form when they do illustrations of Old Testament prophecies.

The Holy Spirit revealed himself under at least two visible forms—that of a dove, at the baptism of Jesus (Matt. 3:16; Mark 1:10; Luke 3:22; John 1:32), and as tongues of fire, on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1–4). Protestants use these images when drawing or painting these biblical episodes and when they wear Holy Spirit lapel pins or place dove emblems on their cars.

But, more important, in the Incarnation of Christ his Son, God showed mankind an icon of himself. Paul said, "He is the image (Greek: ikon) of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation." Christ is the tangible, divine "icon" of the unseen, infinite God.

We read that when the magi were "going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshipped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold, frankincense, and myrrh" (Matt. 2:11). Though God did not reveal a form for himself on Mount Horeb, he did reveal one in the house in Bethlehem.

The bottom line is, when God made the New Covenant with us, he did reveal himself under a visible form in Jesus Christ. For that reason, we can make representations of God in Christ. Even Protestants use all sorts of religious images: Pictures of Jesus and other biblical persons appear on a myriad of Bibles, picture books, T-shirts, jewelry, bumper stickers, greeting cards, compact discs, and manger scenes. Christ is even symbolically represented through the Icthus or "fish emblem."

Common sense tells us that, since God has revealed himself in various images, most especially in the incarnate Jesus Christ, it’s not wrong for us to use images of these forms to deepen our knowledge and love of God. That’s why God revealed himself in these visible forms, and that’s why statues and pictures are made of them.
 

Landmark

Member
Carne Seca... I am purely curious about the answer to it, it doesn't overly matter to me, I wont be offended if I don't get an answer to it...

Landmark... I do have parents and my firm belief in God is just that I firmly believe that there is a God.

And I'm sorry if it may seem as though I am being judgemental as I am not intending to appear as such, it's just that as far as I can see the worshiping of Saints statues, shrines, posters, portraits, talismans etc... is idolatry and goes against the christian doctrine. I am curious to know how they feel it fits into Christianity... I am not saying that idolatry is wrong I am not judging, as it is the holy scriptures that they read says that idolatry wrong...
Shannon, is a belief a fact, the actual? Obviously, that there are beliefs is a fact, I'm not questioning that. Does belief ever have you come in contact with the actual?
You may not be intending to appear judgemental, however maybe it is something hidden from your view, do you see that as a possibility?
 

blazinkill504

Well-Known Member
i was raised catholic until i realized all religion is bull, but thats besides the point. i have an issue with any religion...mainly catholics with the vatican and all these nice ass churches and monuments to multiple saints and such. im pretty sure jesus said "its easier for a camel to go to the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom." so why are christians and catholics makin giant and beautiful churches...it doesnt add up to me. to me your question can be answered with they just dont care. catholics have always done the pick and choose what we wanna follow and i think that falls into that slot. haha i remember in bill maher's documentary in 08 they said jesus was the 6th one they'd pray too...damn jesus you slidin down the polls
 

Shannon Alexander

Well-Known Member
Landmark - You would be correct in saying that the subconscious mind may play apart in how things are worded. There is no denying that it influences how people talk about and react to things even if that is not what was intended...

Ps. as far as my understanding of your question about is belief fact the answer is no.
 

Shannon Alexander

Well-Known Member
Eye Exaggerate - I can understand if not completely agree with your point of the images of God and Jesus in a Christian worship situation as it pertains to the belief of worshiping God and his son, that is in turn himself as part of the Christian holy trinity... but how does for example someone like St. Alexander and you can choose any one of the 34 odd saint Alexanders available fit into being a visible form of God?
 

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
Eye Exaggerate - I can understand if not completely agree with your point of the images of God and Jesus in a Christian worship situation as it pertains to the belief of worshiping God and his son, that is in turn himself as part of the Christian holy trinity... but how does for example someone like St. Alexander and you can choose any one of the 34 odd saint Alexanders available fit into being a visible form of God?
Hi Shannon, I think that the 6,775,235,700 or so folks here make up the attributes of christ... being the visible form. Some people are great examples of 'being'.
 

Landmark

Member
Landmark - You would be correct in saying that the subconscious mind may play apart in how things are worded. There is no denying that it influences how people talk about and react to things even if that is not what was intended...



Ps. as far as my understanding of your question about is belief fact the answer is no.
So what has one caught in belief in god?
 
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