Eurozone leaders agree to $1.4 Trillion rescue package

The Ruiner

The Ruiner

Well-Known Member
This will be good...it will keep oil down for the year.

The only drawback is that Germany is refusing to "open it's wallet" further, and holding to 211 billion euros. Meaning that the EU countries will have to find buyers - and they are looking to China and Japan mostly. the chair of the EFSF is already planning trips to those countries in an effort to get them to throw around alittle cash. But, they need to see German support - so look for more pressure for Germany to increase support for this in order to lure the Asian giants to buy in as well.

I think that ultimately, they will have to severe Greece like a gangrenous finger eventually.
 
sync0s

sync0s

Well-Known Member
This is a real good thing for the US. I heard on talk radio the other day an international economist from the london times i believe was listing off a ton of companies who are moving jobs to the US because of all this bullshit in europe. :)
 
The Ruiner

The Ruiner

Well-Known Member
Heard today that the meeting between the EFSF chair and the Chinese didn't go so hot...

Chinese are getting the impression that the Germans (by virtue of their restraint) are not fully backing this deal, and thus they want no part of it. No agreements were made.
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Germany is printing Deutsche Marks in anticipation of a possible exit from the EU. $1.3 trillion is a tiny drop in a bucket. Hell the Fed already gave them $16 trillion and they are still going to explode. Greece cannot be saved. The derivatives market is 100 times bigger than the World GDP.
 
The Ruiner

The Ruiner

Well-Known Member
Greece has to go, eventually. If the 1.3 trillion wasn't an issue they would let Greece and probably Italy (although ENI is a good enough reason for them to stay) go. The issue with the Germans is that they are anticipating enhanced power over the EU with all of these bailouts, but are doing so at the burden of the German taxpayer, which is reasonably not very popular among the masses. However, this opens up a lot of avenues for German control politically and economically. But, the Germans today probably wont see the benefits, and are frankly just "over it."

The derivatives market is moot, everyone has their hand in the cookie jar. The financial powers that be wont allow the entire system to implode because that means they would make less money, or god forbid LOSE money. It just isn't going to happen.
 
mame

mame

Well-Known Member
I'm hearing that this package was likely inadequate, but I haven't really seen any evidence to support that. I guess we'll have to wait and see...
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
BofA has already moved their Greek derivatives book to a FDIC insured deposit institution. How much will the American Public have to pay to keep the FDIC solvent so it can bail out BofA? only something like $72 trillion...and that is just the GREEK derivatives.
 
Charlie Ventura

Charlie Ventura

Active Member
mame said:
I'm hearing that this package was likely inadequate, but I haven't really seen any evidence to support that. I guess we'll have to wait and see...
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I've heard that you're right.

The bailout will only cover about 50% of what's needed. The other half will be guaranteed through the International Monetary Fund, most of which will be guaranteed through our Federal Reserve Bank. In other words, the U.S. Taxpayer will be left holding the bag again.

Why don't we just wake up to the fact that socialism leads to economic slavery and free markets lead to liberty?

Let the Greeks hold the bag. After all, it is they who enjoyed retirement at age 50 with government pensions and "free" medical care for life. Now they are discovering that "free" isn't always free, aren't they? I say let them either get productive again, or stew in their own Keynesian pot.

 
C

Coals

Active Member
The Ruiner said:
Greece was never productive. That's the problem.
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Negative. Greece is trapped in the same perpetual debt trap as America. Greece is simply what we, and the rest of the first world have to look forward too. This "bailout" is nothing more than a postponement of the inevitable. The good news is Christmas will come and go without much happening, after that its pretty much up in the air.

Kaiser puts it best hit play on the video: http://rt.com/news/bailout-eu-keiser-summit-907/
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Bailouts are just a rollover loan with different terms, more actual money is to be paid than the last bailout.
 
The Ruiner

The Ruiner

Well-Known Member
Coals said:
Negative. Greece is trapped in the same perpetual debt trap as America. Greece is simply what we, and the rest of the first world have to look forward too. This "bailout" is nothing more than a postponement of the inevitable. The good news is Christmas will come and go without much happening, after that its pretty much up in the air.

Kaiser puts it best hit play on the video: http://rt.com/news/bailout-eu-keiser-summit-907/
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I can tell youre someone that does their homework, and really knows the issue before responding, but I must ask: How can you say "negative" to the statement of "Greece was never productive"?

What evidence are you using to support your highly informed analysis?

And I would rather gouge out my eyes with a melon baller than watch a RT video.
 
C

Coals

Active Member
The Ruiner said:
I can tell youre someone that does their homework, and really knows the issue before responding, but I must ask: How can you say "negative" to the statement of "Greece was never productive"?

What evidence are you using to support your highly informed analysis?

And I would rather gouge out my eyes with a melon baller than watch a RT video.
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I probably should have been more specific about the issue. What I meant to imply was that at this point productivity is not particularly relavent to the big picture of the world debt crisis. Even if Greeks payed their taxes and worked harder and more productivly they would still be in a mess. Kind of like us. Its true they wouldn't be stradling a default, but they would be in the future regardless.

The system itself is broken at the base. You can shoot for all sorts of ideal parameters above the base but for the most part it is a waste of time. Under the worlds current financial model, you will still have an un-avoidable failure even with incredible productivity and low un-employment. It would just take a little longer, especially if you had a large population, like us.

Like RT or not, Max knows his shit. But I do disagree. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yekDrjy19iQ

If your house is on fire, would you attack it with a tiger torch?
Can you fight debt with a tiger torch? (you can because the debt is made out of highly flammable paper)
 
The Ruiner

The Ruiner

Well-Known Member
Coals said:
I probably should have been more specific about the issue. What I meant to imply was that at this point productivity is not particularly relavent to the big picture of the world debt crisis. Even if Greeks payed their taxes and worked harder and more productivly they would still be in a mess. Kind of like us. Its true they wouldn't be stradling a default, but they would be in the future regardless.

The system itself is broken at the base. You can shoot for all sorts of ideal parameters above the base but for the most part it is a waste of time. Under the worlds current financial model, you will still have an un-avoidable failure even with incredible productivity and low un-employment. It would just take a little longer, especially if you had a large population, like us.

Like RT or not, Max knows his shit. But I do disagree. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yekDrjy19iQ

If your house is on fire, would you attack it with a tiger torch?
Can you fight debt with a tiger torch? (you can because the debt is made out of highly flammable paper)
Click to expand...
The reason that many would think it unwise to compare the situation of Greece to that of America is that Greece acted like a parasite when it joined the EU. They gave huge pensions, entitlement programs, super early retirements...all on credit of the collective EU - not their own productivity. The eurozone IS a broken system, that I will agree on, but that is not the US system. And unlike Greece, we actually are indispensible to the world economic system...literally every country in the world has a vested interest in the well being of the US economy. Whether or not the rhetoric scratches this surface, that is the underlying reality of life on earth.

What all of the "economic models" are failing to account for is the paradigm shift that has taken place. It's becoming more and more obvious that it really is all monopoly money, and strict adherence to the fundamentals of yester-year are becoming obsolete. What works is power, and that is the US. And that is what every other major country is vying for, and hopefully will never have because that will come at the expense of us, and future generations.
 
C

Coals

Active Member
The Ruiner said:
The reason that many would think it unwise to compare the situation of Greece to that of America is that Greece acted like a parasite when it joined the EU. .
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The EU is the parasite. The entire first world is owned by the directors of the perpetual debt system. That system is dysfunctional. The US is simply at the top of the system. The same people that are selling the EU their money and sucking copious amounts of wealth, assets and power off the top are executing the same scam here.

Its a death cycle. Force "soverign" nations to buy their own currency at interest, odvioulsy bankrupting even the most fiscaly resposnible government, thus tightening the noose on the social structure. Slowly but surely the money runs out, services are cut and/or privatized in the notion "its just not affordable". The reality is that the state is paying far more in interest on every dollar they buy. As a result the people and smaller companies are bankrupted allowing the financiers to swoop in and swap their paper debt for actual assets and power/control/influence. The financiers companies get bailed out, gobble up the smaller firms and/or get preferential treatment by government. Meanwhile the country goes bankrupt, allowing the financiers even more power within, and the country eventually either outright fails and is invaded by the financiers private armies (NATO, US allies etc) and/or the government becomes completely corrupted and controlled by private interests (Americas case). Its more like a Plutocracy, or Monarchy or Oligarchy than Democracy. The more money power and control that is sucked out of the surfs is just more money, power and control for the King(s).

Life is good for those at the top when everything fails.

This is why the only two countries that could possibly compete with the US have pulled out of the US dollar. China and Russia know exactly what is going on and are moving to protect themselves by trading their American paper for assets of value. The writting is on the wall. Unless nothing drastic is changed soon the American Dollar is going to tank. If nothing is changed and it does tank, the Financiers will have even more control and an even larger amount of the Capital and Assets. By trading in US dollars, China and Russia realized they might be helping to finance the Euro/NorthAmero Empire that will eventually attack them.

The industrial millitary complex always survives no matter the "domestic" economic conditions of a country because the Kings know they have nothing without a strong millitary and police force. A complex here that is currently being privatized at a tremendous rate.

We can worry about abortion, gay marriage, productivity, tax rates and other social and domestic economic details after we re-gain control of our monetary system, untill then we will continue to not have any control of our future.
 
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