Get a Harvest Every 2 Weeks

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stickyicky77

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Yes, at least 16, perhaps 20, presuming 400HPS, cooltube (as always) recommended to allow the light to be dropped to about 8" of plant tops, improving foliar penetration.

4" (100mm) cubes are not the best for cloning. Bit big for the job. They stay wet too long. They are intended as an intermediate planting medium, used commonly with hydroponic tomatoes, which are started in 40mm then nested in 100mm cubes and finally planted in NFT channels or in rockwool slabs until harvest.

Start your cuttings in 40mm cubes for quickest rooting with lower possibility of overwatering symptoms. You can then nest the 40mm in 100mm cubes or you can go straight to your pellet bed.

I'd prefer standard plastic pots (not netpots) of pellets in an empty flood tray to preserve plant mobility and reduce the amt of pellets per crop, tho.

Would it be better to put the clones in 1" rockwool cubes or rapid rooter sponges in a bunch of small 4x4 black plastic pots with the hydrotons in them? Would 4x4 pots be OK or would the pots take more room in the tray and give me less space for clones?
 

LoudBlunts

Well-Known Member
very well put al...

im not worried necessarily, i just like to hear your input and opinions on certain topics. you are very insightful!

you forgot about the cooltubes....do you think cooltubes aid in being invisible to FLIR and thermal imaging?
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
is it pretty much legal in au.
um, no. My op would get me 20 years.

What i have read and heard Jorge Cervantes say about FLIR is that if you have your light cycles on during the day the FLIR is useless because the FLIR only works at night,which makes sense.
I tend to disagree. FLIR can work during the day but gets progressively 'blinder' when looking for the heat signature of a grow op as the ambient air temp rises, creating less contrast between the target thermal signal and the ambient thermal 'noise'. Keep in mind that FLIR is a surface temp thermometer and can look at numerous surfaces in a single frame, giving a differential display. If other objects in frame are close to the temp of the target, the target won't be very well defined in the FLIR display image.

If a wall is in full sun, it will be warmer than any grow op could make it, so FLIR IS blind in that instance. However, if a grow room is in an uninsulated or minimally insulated structure and FLIR is used to look at a shady side of the structure, FLIR would see a warm exterior wall. It would be hard to tell if the heat was coming from an op or from other heating during the day. FLIR will work best at night or on cool, overcast days because of the higher contrast between the target and thermal 'noise.'

you forgot about the cooltubes....do you think cooltubes aid in being invisible to FLIR and thermal imaging?
Cooltubes can be an important part of FLIR defences but by themselves do nothing against FLIR per se; they just move heat somewhere else.

They do reduce buildup of warm air in the growroom because they don't allow the room's airmass to contact the HPS bottle. They trap a lot of radiated IR but not all of it. Long wave IR is stopped in the tube. Some short-wave IR escapes and if it can contact uninsulated exterior walls, will make the other side of them appear warm to FLIR.

FLIR can see concentrations of warm air but generally only in the immediate vicinity of an exhaust which is significantly warmer than the surrounding air. Diffusing exhaust through an intermediate airmass such as an attic drops its temperature as well as distributes the cooled air through several structural vents, Unless one has an IR image of the structure when it was known that there was no grow op installed, it would be hard for a FLIR operator to tell that the attic/crawlspace vents are unusually warm.

If you're worried about FLIR, you need to insulate your walls and diffuse your warm exhaust air, usually via an attic or crawlspace intermediate airmass, either from cooltubes or the main exhaust blower.

If you'd like to see what FLIR sees, look at this sales brochure for FLIR cameras.

Would it be better to put the clones in 1" rockwool cubes or rapid rooter sponges in a bunch of small 4x4 black plastic pots with the hydrotons in them? Would 4x4 pots be OK or would the pots take more room in the tray and give me less space for clones?
I don't like rapid rooters, jiffy pots etc which are made from organic materials (usually compressed peat or coconut coir). These organic materials can support mould growth and can fragment, making a mess in recirculating hydro systems.

Yes, if I had to use pellets (and I really kinda hate them for a half dozen reasons including weight, difficulty of disposal, difficulty in cleaning and sterilisation of them which limits reusability without transferring root problems crop to crop) I'd prefer to use individual pots of them rather than plants in an entire bed of them. They'll keep the rootmasses from knitting, allowing you to pickup and move the plants around for evening out growth, spraying, etc. 4" cube pots might work, but that's a pretty small rootmass. I'd prefer something closer to 6".
 

LoudBlunts

Well-Known Member
al, like i said before, not really worried about it, i just believe the biggest defense or the biggest tools in war is intelligence and knowledge. never hurts to ask/research/question. I like your advice, you do a great job of explaining everything MORE THAN ONCE, that must be frustrating...very commendable bro! I just wanted your advice & input, especially since you've helped me from day one

you mention attic and crawlspace. i just read/watched barry copper's new video. he mentioned distributing the air under the house if possible. that way the area is evenly distributed? do you agree? i guess you just said that aye?

another thing. In you opinion....say a 3 or 4 bedroom house using maybe a 1000watter 12/12 everyday, the whole cycle.....as well as MAYBE a 1000watter mh every now and again, on top of [house] regular use, would you think that may be too much? what shouldnt i go over if i was to add more lights?

and as far as cutting and exhausting. i rent, so i use a window fan that intakes and exhaust the air with two fans in one unit. i also use cabs. intake down below and exhaust out the top. do you think im venting efficiently? the central a/c will also be ran just like a normal room via vents.... do you think the air exhausting out the window fan should be worried about?

and of course, i want to give props where they are due, once more. you are a great asset to any community! you may not know it all...and you may call yourself a lazy stoner, but you damn sure know a little bit of everything aye? how they say it? master of none jack of all trades? i want to thank you for continuous support and willingness to help everybody...no matter how redundant the question may be!!!!! peace beyond to you my friend!!!
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
al, like i said before, not really worried about it, i just believe the biggest defense or the biggest tools in war is intelligence and knowledge. never hurts to ask/research/question. I like your advice, you do a great job of explaining everything MORE THAN ONCE, that must be frustrating...very commendable bro! I just wanted your advice & input, especially since you've helped me from day one
No worries, happy to do what I can. Some things I don't mind repeating because they're buried deep in the thread and they'd be hard for ppl to find. It's often easier for me to repeat something than look it up and quote it.

However, I do appreciate it when ppl have done some independent research in the FAQ, etc for the real building-block basics. I don't have to refer ppl to the FAQ much but I do from time to time when they've clearly not done the prereqs.

you mention attic and crawlspace. i just read/watched barry copper's new video. he mentioned distributing the air under the house if possible. that way the area is evenly distributed? do you agree? i guess you just said that aye?
Yep. :)

another thing. In you opinion....say a 3 or 4 bedroom house using maybe a 1000watter 12/12 everyday, the whole cycle.....as well as MAYBE a 1000watter mh every now and again, on top of [house] regular use, would you think that may be too much? what shouldnt i go over if i was to add more lights?
I think you could safely double my op, or at least add another pair of 1000s to it for 12h day. Comes a point where you are taking enough of the maximum capacity of the AC mains supply to the house that you interfere with normal residential uses. My place has 240V AC mains @ 60A max, but 30A is going to the water heater (when it comes on, it rarely does now I have solar water heat). My op uses 14.7A with everything running, leaving 15.3A for everything else in the house.

and as far as cutting and exhausting. i rent, so i use a window fan that intakes and exhaust the air with two fans in one unit. i also use cabs. intake down below and exhaust out the top. do you think im venting efficiently?
I'm a little concerned about your window exhaust being so close to your intake unless something has been done to prevent the exhaust from being drawn right back in the op.

Your locations of blowers in your wardrobes is OK.

the central a/c will also be ran just like a normal room via vents.... do you think the air exhausting out the window fan should be worried about?
IF you were worried about FLIR, you'd worry about discharging your warm air as you are. That window would glow like a fireplace on FLIR.

and of course, i want to give props where they are due, once more. you are a great asset to any community! you may not know it all...and you may call yourself a lazy stoner, but you damn sure know a little bit of everything aye? how they say it? master of none jack of all trades? i want to thank you for continuous support and willingness to help everybody...no matter how redundant the question may be!!!!! peace beyond to you my friend!!!
aw, shucks. *blush*

thanks. :)
 

LoudBlunts

Well-Known Member
okay...could you point me, or give me ideas/pointers in how you would design a more efficient way of exhausting in my situation?

the only reason i had the window fan is to exchange fresh air from outside.

but im guessing if im using central air to cool the room, it really wont matter as i keep my ambient temps in check?

did i just solve my own dilemma? even my dilemma for the summer? would the central a/c use that much electricity cost wise to cool the room?
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
okay...could you point me, or give me ideas/pointers in how you would design a more efficient way of exhausting in my situation?

the only reason i had the window fan is to exchange fresh air from outside.

but im guessing if im using central air to cool the room, it really wont matter as i keep my ambient temps in check?

did i just solve my own dilemma? even my dilemma for the summer? would the central a/c use that much electricity cost wise to cool the room?
Phwoaaar... you have central air.. and you didn't mention it til now?! :lol:

Yes, problem solved.

You'll save a lot of dough on central air if you can source and dump the cooltubes through the window, but with central air, you really never need open a window. Even if you don't dump the cooltubes to outdoors, they get heat out of the room before it can get to the plants. Your central air will shift the thermal energy outside, but you'll pay for the privilege. Your aircon will run more often.


Looked up a pic of what a grow op might look like on FLIR if the exterior wall is poorly insulated and the grow is fairly warm:

 

Enigma

Well-Known Member
Phwoaaar... you have central air.. and you didn't mention it til now?! :lol:

Yes, problem solved.

You'll save a lot of dough on central air if you can source and dump the cooltubes through the window, but with central air, you really never need open a window. Even if you don't dump the cooltubes to outdoors, they get heat out of the room before it can get to the plants. Your central air will shift the thermal energy outside, but you'll pay for the privilege. Your aircon will run more often.


Looked up a pic of what a grow op might look like on FLIR if the exterior wall is poorly insulated and the grow is fairly warm:

So an insulated Secret Jardin Dark Room would work well?
 

LoudBlunts

Well-Known Member
And Enigma....he's telling us that yes...insulation is better than no insulation.

but we still have to handle the air that comes out the vents/ports of the tent.

i think secret jardin dark rooms are quite possibly the best damn grow tent out there.
 

Enigma

Well-Known Member
And Enigma....he's telling us that yes...insulation is better than no insulation.

but we still have to handle the air that comes out the vents/ports of the tent.

i think secret jardin dark rooms are quite possibly the best damn grow tent out there.
I was thinking the insulation and heat reflective material would big a big bonus for a grow room. The ventilation won't be a big deal. The house is kept around 70 deg f. There will be a vent for the cooltube and a vent for the room that is filtered twice with carbon. That should keep things quiet and not so smelly. Everything will be circulated inside so no worries about heat concentration outside.
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
k, I hit the web and looked for these 'secret Jardin dark rooms.'

Like all ready-made grow tents, these are WAY overpriced compared to what you can make with one trip to the hdwe store and an hour's work with some common tools.

A grow tent placed in the middle of a room could have a very significant air gap between the tent and the structure. There's your insulation- in the air gap. No more needed.
 

Enigma

Well-Known Member
k, I hit the web and looked for these 'secret Jardin dark rooms.'

Like all ready-made grow tents, these are WAY overpriced compared to what you can make with one trip to the hdwe store and an hour's work with some common tools.

A grow tent placed in the middle of a room could have a very significant air gap between the tent and the structure. There's your insulation- in the air gap. No more needed.
Well, I found one that is 4x4x6.5 with one main door and two side doors with ventilation, reflective material, and insulated for $240. All of that with adjustable roof cross-members and a warranty settles it. Just one less thing to do at this point.. I wouldn't mind building one, but this thing even has its own carrying bag to move it.

I'm sold.
 

stickyicky77

Well-Known Member
What i have read in Jorge Cervantes Grow Bible is that you can hook up your exhaust to a chamber with a ozone generator in it to kill any residual smell and subcool the exhaust. I personally have a Homebox with a 6" in-line duct fan and a carbon filter. I have the Homebox set up in a large closet. Then i have a ozone generator going in the room that the closet is in. Also for a back up i have a 5 gallon bucket with a lid on it and a hole cut in the lid with a 120 cfm computer fan attached to the lid. The bucket has holes drilled in the sides of it and i have some Soil Moist crystals with some liquid ONA in it. I can set the fan on a timer and let it cycle on and off through out the day if i need to. I do not vent any exhaust outside because i have a central AC system and i keep my temp set at 74 F all day and at night 70-74 F.
 

stickyicky77

Well-Known Member
Well, I found one that is 4x4x6.5 with one main door and two side doors with ventilation, reflective material, and insulated for $240. All of that with adjustable roof cross-members and a warranty settles it. Just one less thing to do at this point.. I wouldn't mind building one, but this thing even has its own carrying bag to move it.

I'm sold.
Check out the Homebox buy-the-homebox.com - universal indoor grow box kit. I own 2 of them, 1 XS one for vegging 2x2x4 and 1 SM one for flowering that is a 3x3x6 . They are reasonably priced and are very good quality and they have a lot of differant sizes to meet your growing needs. I have been very happy with my investment.
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Well, I found one that is 4x4x6.5 with one main door and two side doors with ventilation, reflective material, and insulated for $240. All of that with adjustable roof cross-members and a warranty settles it. Just one less thing to do at this point.. I wouldn't mind building one, but this thing even has its own carrying bag to move it.

I'm sold.
Yep, I agree- you've been sold. :D

If you could not build an equivalent for under $50 (sans fans), I'd be stunned.

How often are you planning to move this thing? Enough to merit a carry bag? Bit of a useless accessory, IMNSFHO. A grow room is not a laptop or an iPod.

Keep in mind that when installing in a new location, fitting points for fans/ducts, entry flap, etc may not be in the same places as in the old installation. You wind up with a patchup job and a lot of pinholing from putting up and taking down and moving the tent.

When I move house, my grow rooms have been totally torn down and a completely new one built in the new location (in the reverse of that order, actually- I need a new room to put the plants in before I tear down the old one- lights, fans & flood systems move with the plants). I'll salvage what timbers I can, but old panda film, accumulated pinholes and all, goes straight to the bin.

Being a stoned slacker, I can appreciate the virtues of sacrificing money in exchange for not having to work very hard. However, I was a cheap bastard long before I was a stoned slacker.... Spending 5x more than I need to for a commercially made copy of something I can knock up myself in an hour or so, wherever possible, annoys the bejesus out of the skinflint in me.
 

TLR

Well-Known Member
Would this be possible to do with a rubbermaid setup and LSTing the plants, but at the same time cutting the lower branches to get the wanted effect?
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
What i have read in Jorge Cervantes Grow Bible is that you can hook up your exhaust to a chamber with a ozone generator in it to kill any residual smell and subcool the exhaust. I personally have a Homebox with a 6" in-line duct fan and a carbon filter. I have the Homebox set up in a large closet. Then i have a ozone generator going in the room that the closet is in. Also for a back up i have a 5 gallon bucket with a lid on it and a hole cut in the lid with a 120 cfm computer fan attached to the lid. The bucket has holes drilled in the sides of it and i have some Soil Moist crystals with some liquid ONA in it. I can set the fan on a timer and let it cycle on and off through out the day if i need to. I do not vent any exhaust outside because i have a central AC system and i keep my temp set at 74 F all day and at night 70-74 F.
Good one from JC there.

Sounds like a good op!

With ozone, the scent mask probably isn't necessary- and may in itself be a giveaway. Also, O3 breaks down when it comes in contact with molecules it can oxidise. You may be using up your O3 breaking down scent mask molecules.

Try your system without the scent mask and see how you go with an independent nose doing your testing for you, if possible.
 
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