Get a Harvest Every 2 Weeks

Status
Not open for further replies.

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Light leaks are best cured by fully lining the cabinet with panda film, effectively creating a light-sealed tent within the cabinet. Leave plenty of overlap where panels of panda film must be joined, such as where the walls meet the ceiling and floor.

Modern, cheapo duct tape is nearly useless in grow rooms. It comes unstuck in no time at all in warm, humid conditions. Use silicone sealant to glue panels of pandafilm together. Used duct tape only as a temporary measure until the silicone sealant sets up.
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
check your local hydro shops & hdwe stores.

You'll find almost everything you need to build an op between aquarium/pet shops and your local giant hdwe stores. Only a very few items will be specific to hydro shops, like nutes and big wattage HPS lighting.
 

Kaosisglobal

Well-Known Member
Hey Al, I am leaving the house now. Even if I don't finish up my project today. I will have a better idea of what I am doing. You've been great. I will keep in touch with my updates.
 

Enigma

Well-Known Member
I've been looking at HTG.com and their prices blow away any local competitors.

Period.

For a 4x4 space would a 1000w HPS be over-kill?

I've used one before in such a small space with great results.. but I was wondering if you had first-hand experience with a smaller space.. would a 400w/600w suffice?

I know more light is always better, if you don't burn the plants.

HTG recommends the 400w for a 4x4 space..

1000w; 150,000L = 150L/w
600w; 95,000 = 158.2L/w
400w; 55,000 = 137.5L/w

1000w = 37,500L/sq. ft. @ 24" above the canopy
600w = 42,222.2L/sq. ft. @ 18" above the canopy
400w = 24,444.4L/sq. ft. @ 18" above the canopy

To me.. the 600w seems to be the most efficient and the best suited for the space.. maybe my math is wrong...?

Here is a layout:



Model #5 - Updated

Note: The jpeg can be enlarged to view in the browser. This is also based on a perpetual grow.. just a little bit different from yours.. well a lot a bit.

:blsmoke:

Enigma
 

We TaRdED

Well-Known Member
you got some crazy ideas enigma! i hope that works out for you! why do you want it to be round? at least thats what i get from it! also how do you plan on implementing it? shoot me a pm! unless al doesnt mind a little hijacking:mrgreen:

edit, also how many plants/ft^2 is that going to be? looks really densely packed!
 

Enigma

Well-Known Member
Haha, on the way to the store I was working the math out in my head and I found where I went wrong.. but the 600w still seems to be the best suited for the space.

you got some crazy ideas enigma! i hope that works out for you! why do you want it to be round? at least thats what i get from it! also how do you plan on implementing it? shoot me a pm! unless al doesnt mind a little hijacking:mrgreen:

edit, also how many plants/ft^2 is that going to be? looks really densely packed!
As you can see that is Model #5! So far, I've been through 4 models until this one came up to be the least expensive and most cost efficient design.

Check the link for the details: Model #5 - Updated

About 8 plants per sq. ft. It is still in design so the numbers could change in the future.

It is round because it is made out of this:
35 Gallon Pond Kit - Lowe's
 

We TaRdED

Well-Known Member
Haha, on the way to the store I was working the math out in my head and I found where I went wrong.. but the 600w still seems to be the best suited for the space.



As you can see that is Model #5! So far, I've been through 4 models until this one came up to be the least expensive and most cost efficient design.

Check the link for the details: Model #5 - Updated

About 8 plants per sq. ft. It is still in design so the numbers could change in the future.

It is round because it is made out of this:
35 Gallon Pond Kit - Lowe's
thats like $50, thats not that cheap, maybe reinforced though. i bought a 40 gal(i think its 40, greater than 35gal anyways) for under $10. if you were only filling it 1/2way you would have no problems with it. Plus you want something thats square, that way it will make it easier to do a perpetual crop, you could work down the rows. idk, JMHO!

8 PLANTS/SQFT? WHAT? thats unheard of. madness. you really are a puzzle..... lol....

let me know how it goes, this is like a new frontier!!! your going to need some healthy moms!!! :peace:
 

Enigma

Well-Known Member
thats like $50, thats not that cheap, maybe reinforced though. i bought a 40 gal(i think its 40, greater than 35gal anyways) for under $10. if you were only filling it 1/2way you would have no problems with it. Plus you want something thats square, that way it will make it easier to do a perpetual crop, you could work down the rows. idk, JMHO!

8 PLANTS/SQFT? WHAT? thats unheard of. madness. you really are a puzzle..... lol....

let me know how it goes, this is like a new frontier!!! your going to need some healthy moms!!! :peace:
With the round one there is more usuable area.. I had a good geometry teacher! He was also the basketball coach!

I never thought of the round res until I saw one going through some pond stuff.. then it hit me.. why not see how many I can fit in there?! The Model #4 only held 56.. this one holds 63.. in less floor space.. and costs way less than the other.

I had an idea to use some tubs from Rubbermaid.. but that would only allow me to use 8 plants at best per tub.. and getting 4 tubs in the are would leave me with 32 total.. I like the numbers from the pond kit!

In order to harvest all I have to do is tag each plant with the name of the mother and the date cloned. A piece of masking tape folded around the base of the newly cloned stalk is all I will need for information. Besides that, I will group them next to each other and the plain sight of the bud with a magnifying glass will tell me when the tricromes are matured enough for harvest.

Check out the possible moms for yourself.. T5's ftw!



:blsmoke:

Enigma
 

We TaRdED

Well-Known Member
With the round one there is more usuable area.. I had a good geometry teacher! He was also the basketball coach!

I never thought of the round res until I saw one going through some pond stuff.. then it hit me.. why not see how many I can fit in there?! The Model #4 only held 56.. this one holds 63.. in less floor space.. and costs way less than the other.

I had an idea to use some tubs from Rubbermaid.. but that would only allow me to use 8 plants at best per tub.. and getting 4 tubs in the are would leave me with 32 total.. I like the numbers from the pond kit!

In order to harvest all I have to do is tag each plant with the name of the mother and the date cloned. A piece of masking tape folded around the base of the newly cloned stalk is all I will need for information. Besides that, I will group them next to each other and the plain sight of the bud with a magnifying glass will tell me when the tricromes are matured enough for harvest.

Check out the possible moms for yourself.. T5's ftw!



:blsmoke:

Enigma
you should start your own thread my friend! i will definitely watch your build and growing. seems like you know what you want and how to do it, right on! what strain that that btw? what would be the circumference of your res/propagator? your moms look good :D peace
 

Enigma

Well-Known Member
you should start your own thread my friend! i will definitely watch your build and growing. seems like you know what you want and how to do it, right on! what strain that that btw? what would be the circumference of your res/propagator? your moms look good :D peace
I was thinking about that.. but right now I'm patiently awaiting the Guru's advice.. although, I think the 600w is gonna be the best bet.
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
For a 4x4 space would a 1000w HPS be over-kill?
Would be fine with a cooltube. You can recover some of the intensity lost by the 24" uncooled recommended spacing by installing a cooltube and dropping the light to 330-350mm (12-14") min clearance.

I've used one before in such a small space with great results.. but I was wondering if you had first-hand experience with a smaller space.. would a 400w/600w suffice?
For good density, I use the coarse (but darn close for 400, 600 & 1000HPS) guide of 50W of HPS/sq ft. For a 4x4 table, a 1000 would be best suited per that rough guide. A 600 would produce nice results too, but you may want to move plants around in the trays periodically to even them up a bit. Plants left always on the fringe of the light coverage may not do as well as you like.

However, most horizontal tube reflectors lay down a mainly rectangular light pattern. This is why I use square tables in pairs, to create a rectangular plant space to be covered by a single 1000 in a cooltubed batwing. Of course, you can buy rectangular trays if you like.

I know more light is always better, if you don't burn the plants.
True. Cooltubes trap most of the radiated IR but not all of it. I can lay my hand on a cooltube running a 1000 and leave it there but I don't think I'd want to do it for 12 hours straight, nor would I lay a plant up against one. I don't have a surface temp thermo but the warmest part of my cooltubes would be close to 38-40C. The cooltubes are so effective at ducting off heat from the HPS bottles and my room air circ is sufficient enough that the air temp (measured with a light-shielded air probe) under my batwings is just the same as any other place in the room.

HTG recommends the 400w for a 4x4 space..
Mmm. Pretty big table for a 400. I'd probably choose a 2' x 3.5'-4' tray for a 400 in a horizontal reflector.

1000w; 150,000L = 150L/w
600w; 95,000 = 158.2L/w
400w; 55,000 = 137.5L/w

1000w = 37,500L/sq. ft. @ 24" above the canopy
600w = 42,222.2L/sq. ft. @ 18" above the canopy
400w = 24,444.4L/sq. ft. @ 18" above the canopy

To me.. the 600w seems to be the most efficient and the best suited for the space.. maybe my math is wrong...?
If I'm not mistaken, those figures are for lamps without cooltubes. Easy to cut any of them in half with cooltubes installed. I wouldn't feel bad about a 400 in a cooltube at 6-8" clearance. You can use the inverse square math to adjust the intensity figures accordingly.

Here is a layout:



Model #5 - Updated

Note: The jpeg can be enlarged to view in the browser. This is also based on a perpetual grow.. just a little bit different from yours.. well a lot a bit.
Nice drawing. :)

Not sure about the round tray (is that what I'm seeing?), though, unless you're using a vertical tube 'chinaman's hat' type reflector, which are not the most efficient sort and their tube sockets run very hot, reducing lamp life.

If you want to do a grow in the round, think about a vertically mounted cooltube column. I've seen a 'stadium' or 'coliseum' grow which used a pair of 1000s, in seriesed cooltubes, like my setup, but with plants on 3 levels of shelves surrounding the cooltube column. I like the fact that all light in such an arrangement comes straight from the lamp tube instead of half of it bouncing off a reflector before it gets to the plants.
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
About 8 plants per sq. ft. It is still in design so the numbers could change in the future.
Are you doing plants in pots or an aero/DWC? Looks doable that way. However, I'd suggest that 8 per sf in pots would be pushing the minimum rootmass size you'd want for good development and the small amt of absorbent media would hold very little water in case of pump failure. 8 per sf looks more possible as an aero/DWC. If in pots, I would not go more than 4 per sf.

It is round because it is made out of this: 35 Gallon Pond Kit - Lowe's
hmm, OK, looks like a nice base for an aero/DWC, all you have to organise is something waterproof and yet stiff enough when a bunch of holes are cut in it to support the netpots. Good bit of McGuyvering. :)
 

Enigma

Well-Known Member
Would be fine with a cooltube. You can recover some of the intensity lost by the 24" uncooled recommended spacing by installing a cooltube and dropping the light to 330-350mm (12-14") min clearance.

For good density, I use the coarse (but darn close for 400, 600 & 1000HPS) guide of 50W of HPS/sq ft. For a 4x4 table, a 1000 would be best suited per that rough guide. A 600 would produce nice results too, but you may want to move plants around in the trays periodically to even them up a bit. Plants left always on the fringe of the light coverage may not do as well as you like.

However, most horizontal tube reflectors lay down a mainly rectangular light pattern. This is why I use square tables in pairs, to create a rectangular plant space to be covered by a single 1000 in a cooltubed batwing. Of course, you can buy rectangular trays if you like.

True. Cooltubes trap quite most of the radiated IR but not all of it. I can lay my hand on a cooltube running a 1000 and leave it there but I don't think I'd want to do it for 12 hours straight, nor would I lay a plant up against one. I don't have a surface temp thermo but the warmest part of my cooltubes would be close to 38-40C. The cooltubes are so effective at ducting off heat from the HPS bottles and my room air circ is sufficient enough that the air temp (measured with a light-shielded air probe) under my batwings is just the same as any other place in the room.

Mmm. Pretty big table for a 400. I'd probably choose a 2' x 3.5'-4' tray for a 400 in a horizontal reflector.

If I'm not mistaken, those figures are for lamps without cooltubes. Easy to cut any of them in half with cooltubes installed. I wouldn't feel bad about a 400 in a cooltube at 6-8" clearance. You can use the inverse square math to adjust the intensity figures accordingly.

Nice drawing. :)

Not sure about the round tray (is that what I'm seeing?), though, unless you're using a vertical tube 'chinaman's hat' type reflector, which are not the most efficient sort and their tube sockets run very hot, reducing lamp life.

If you want to do a grow in the round, think about a vertically mounted cooltube column. I've seen a 'stadium' or 'coliseum' grow which used a pair of 1000s, in seriesed cooltubes, like my setup, but with plants on 3 levels of shelves surrounding the cooltube column. I like the fact that all light in such an arrangement comes straight from the lamp tube instead of half of it bouncing off a reflector before it gets to the plants.
Cool tubes cool the 1000w that much?!?! Shit.

I was looking at the Euro hood/reflector with 6" vents. Is that not enough...? Even if the hood had its own duct for ventilation outside of the room?

The round pond kit DWC is already purchased because of the density factor.. 63 clones as apposed to a 6" PCV setup that would hold only 54 and be way more complex and expensive.. and the rubbermaid tub DWC would only hold 32 in the 4x4 space. The ONLY issue I see right now is that all clones will share the same amount of nutes.. so I will have to find the middle ground saturation of nutrients to cover them all.. something on the tone of 1,000-1,200 PPM? The new clones will be watered from the top for two weeks, or until the roots grow into the res.

So, if the 1000w cooltube was used at say 12"-16" above the canopy:

1000w 150,000L = ~85,000L/sq. ft.

Damn.

I like the stadium idea.. but I think this round table is going to be interesting enough!

Simple, compact, cheap, and efficient.. in the days to come my newly logged journal will tell the story! (See sig below).

As always thanks Al!

:blsmoke:

Enigma
 

Enigma

Well-Known Member
Are you doing plants in pots or an aero/DWC? Looks doable that way. However, I'd suggest that 8 per sf in pots would be pushing the minimum rootmass size you'd want for good development and the small amt of absorbent media would hold very little water in case of pump failure. 8 per sf looks more possible as an aero/DWC. If in pots, I would not go more than 4 per sf.



hmm, OK, looks like a nice base for an aero/DWC, all you have to organise is something waterproof and yet stiff enough when a bunch of holes are cut in it to support the netpots. Good bit of McGuyvering. :)
DWC!

Yea, I'm thinking a thick piece of plastic to look like a piece of swiss cheese!

Some well placed PVC supports should hold it nicely.. but that is to be seen.. if I source the DWC cover in time I will go right into it.. if not, I'll have a nice soil op to tide me over!

:blsmoke:

Enigma
 

Enigma

Well-Known Member
$360 shipped for a 1000w HPS, ballast, cooltube, hangers, and extra bulb.. now where the hell can I find one of those reflectors you have?!?!
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Cool tubes cool the 1000w that much?!?! Shit.
Yeah, the difference really is night & day. I don't know how I got by without the things for so long... well, yes, I do... my summer crops always sucked. :D

I was looking at the Euro hood/reflector with 6" vents. Is that not enough...? Even if the hood had its own duct for ventilation outside of the room?
I'm not a fan of Euro hoods. They're rather inefficient reflectors because their boxy shape permits a fair amount of light to be bounced right back to the HPS bottle.

The double parabola shape of batwings assures all reflected light is going away from the tube and toward the plants.

Also, either a cooltube or cooled hood should have a closed air circuit and its own blower, sourcing and dumping air outside the room's airmass. Coupled with a main exhaust blower capable of shifting the room's airmass in 3-5 mins, this will make the room airmass temps very stable. Mine is now 25C +/- 1.1C at all times with closed ckt cooltubes and a 600CFM blower for a 500cu ft space.

A cooltube must have its own blower for a constant air supply during lights-on, plus a 15 min cooldown period after lights-off, necessitating its own timer as well. I've seen attempts to use the cooltube's blower as the room's main exhaust blower. Since one cannot run such a blower on a thermostat, the room temp stability is sacrificed. Room temp will be intake temp plus 1-3C.
The round pond kit DWC is already purchased because of the density factor.. 63 clones as apposed to a 6" PCV setup that would hold only 54 and be way more complex and expensive.. and the rubbermaid tub DWC would only hold 32 in the 4x4 space.
k, it'll do, then! :D

The ONLY issue I see right now is that all clones will share the same amount of nutes.. so I will have to find the middle ground saturation of nutrients to cover them all.. something on the tone of 1,000-1,200 PPM? The new clones will be watered from the top for two weeks, or until the roots grow into the res.
Nah, run it at 1400 @ 5.8, the newbs won't mind a bit. I run all my flowering tanks there.

So, if the 1000w cooltube was used at say 12"-16" above the canopy:

1000w 150,000L = ~85,000L/sq. ft.

Damn.
Sounds about right.

I like the stadium idea.. but I think this round table is going to be interesting enough!
Ought to be a good bit of fun.

Not sure how you're going to go with air circ at 8/sf but I guess you'll cross that when you come to it.

DWC!

Yea, I'm thinking a thick piece of plastic to look like a piece of swiss cheese!

Some well placed PVC supports should hold it nicely.. but that is to be seen.. if I source the DWC cover in time I will go right into it.. if not, I'll have a nice soil op to tide me over!
heh, you need a big assed slab of 12mm thick PVC and a hole saw. :) Wot to do with all the offcuts?! Might make interesting beer coasters. :)

$360 shipped for a 1000w HPS, ballast, cooltube, hangers, and extra bulb.. now where the hell can I find one of those reflectors you have?!?!
Nice price, esp incl shipping. :)

I'm using modified Adjust-A-Wings, but they're pretty expensive to buy and then just throw away the lamp mount and socket to fit a cooltube. AAWs are Australian but you ought to find them in the US & UK. You might consider making a homemade batwing reflector for your cooltube.


Originally Posted by Kaosisglobal
I just don't want to fuck up.
Get used to the idea. It's going to happen. Now let's get back to ABF's masterpiece.
Yes-indeedy-do, that's a sure thing. You just fuck up less as you get more experience built up. I absolutely still balls it up from time to time. I've overwatered my latest batch of clones and had to recut about 10 of this last batch of 30 due to stem rot.
 

Kaosisglobal

Well-Known Member
Yeah I know I may fuck up, though o so far things have been going great. I am a pothead, so I still havn't built the closet. Rolled up and never left the house yesterday. But I played with the girls when the lights came on. I fimmed one of my tops that were getting high. Also Al, tell me if you don't think this is sick. You know my tanks. Now I'm two weeks into Flowering and a seed that never germinated is an inch and a half above the rockwell. The only thing I figure is my plants are healthy, and hungry, lol. I am feeding the big girls a flowering solution. The two clones are in there doing fine, but I was shaky. And that seed germinated a month and a half after I started, my widow would be 3 ft. if she was strait up. She already covers 3 sides of the tank. (With training) And at this point I will have to train shoots which are trying to reach lights. Is there anything sold in Home Depot, comparable to Bushmasters??? We don't have any hydro shops here, I would have to order online.
 

Kaosisglobal

Well-Known Member
Oh never said up top, but do you think that seed will make it up, or should I get it out of the tank. By being out of space only thing I could do is soil it, or Grow rocks in a two liter or something? What do you think about that germination, and keeping it healthy??
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top