Get a Harvest Every 2 Weeks

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We TaRdED

We TaRdED

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so you should let the roots just sit in the pipe with no solution for 12 hours? seems like they could dry out too much???? i guess it depends on your setup. aero is supposed to supply the most oxygen so there should be no problems with DO in the NFT effected water where the roots mainly reside in a pipe system. im sure it would help keeping the DO up if your keeping res temps low too!

i have 30ppm from the tap. thats close enough to distilled right?

im planning on putting my whole pump in a filter bag.. that should do the job.

thanks al
 
Enigma

Enigma

Well-Known Member
Al B. Fuct said:
Ah, ok, I see what you're up to.

The only drawback I can see is that plants likely won't be mobile within the op. They will have to stay put until harvest as their rootmasses will probably knit in your 100mm/4" square aero chamber. Even if you take some measures to stop knitting, roots growing without media are rather easy to damage and won't like being moved. It's really handy to be able to move plants around in an op to even out growth and for plant maintenance.

I think what you will end up with will work great, but will be classifiable a bit more accurately as NFT rather than aero.

The main difference between aero, DWC and NFT is the water level.

True aero systems use root chambers tall enough to keep the roots from dipping into pooled nute soln below them. The roots are irrigated only by sprayers or (far preferably) by a nute mist created with air stones in a pool of nutes below the roots and contained in a rather large chamber.

NFT uses a very shallow water level in a long channel or tube which is sloped to allow water to drain out the other end from the feed.

DWC submerges the roots fully in a constantly aerated solution.

In a 4" square tube, it'll make little difference whether you have sprayers spaced between netpots or if you just feed nute soln at one end of the square pipe and let it gravity feed down the tube.

Whether operated as aero or NFT, handwatering the netpots of clay pellets from the top will be needed for the first 1-2 weeks or until roots are well through the netpot bottoms and can contact either a sprayed or gravity fed stream of nutes.

If you want to do aero, I'd consider using something a larger than 4" square tube for the aero chamber- perhaps 150mm or larger round PVC stormdrain pipe; something large enough to have a couple inches of water pooled in the bottom and some airstones/bubble curtains in the pooled nute soln to create the mist. The tubes would have to be fed from a nute res to have adequate reserves for a couple of weeks tank life.
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I've seen a few aero op's with root masses long enough to go anywhere. The "Space Shuttle" thread proves that easily. These would be set in place and left to complete thier flowering phase with a 400w MH and 600w HPS combination for the entire 4x4 space.

The plan is to have one 50 gal res (about 40-45 gal available), a stone for oxygen, aquarium pump (filtered) to pull nutes from res to sprayers between the net pots, the 'table' would be at a slant to collect run-off to feed back into res. with a grand total of about 120 clones at any given time (10 per 1-2 weeks).

I'm going to hit the drafting table again and see what can fit with 6" pipes. Due to constraints only one lighting apparatus can be used in such a confined space due to heat and costs.

I've got experience with DWC with full growth (veg - flower) and I'm interested to see what can be accomplished with something this intricate and compact.
 
We TaRdED

We TaRdED

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Enigma said:
These would be set in place and left to complete thier flowering phase with a 400w MH and 600w HPS combination for the entire 4x4 space.

with a grand total of about 120 clones at any given time (10 per 1-2 weeks).

only one lighting apparatus can be used in such a confined space due to heat and costs.
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if im following you correctly, you want to fit 120 plants in a 4x4 area and only lite by one apparatus? wow, talking about SOG, i would love to see that :D
what are you basing your areo plans on? maybe you can give me some pointers!
 
Enigma

Enigma

Well-Known Member
We TaRdED said:
if im following you correctly, you want to fit 120 plants in a 4x4 area and only lite by one apparatus? wow, talking about SOG, i would love to see that :D
what are you basing your areo plans on? maybe you can give me some pointers!
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It is simply 4" x 4" pvc fence posts, 4" net pots (120), 400w MH and 600w HPS, 50 gal res (40-45 gal available), the necessary aero supplies, organic nutes, ect.

I'm also working on a 6" design that will allow for more roots and less plants (about half).. I'm still doing research and collecting findings on what has already been done and what works.

When I finally make a decision on what works best I will post some pics of the build in progress. Everything from supplies to construction and utilization.

Normally I give to get. Since everything is free to read here I am getting to give.

:blsmoke:

Enigma
 
We TaRdED

We TaRdED

Well-Known Member
kool enigma! good luck with your build, i would def like to check it out! shoot me a PM when you start your journal just in case i overlook it! :blsmoke:
 
Al B. Fuct

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
We TaRdED said:
so you should let the roots just sit in the pipe with no solution for 12 hours? seems like they could dry out too much???? i guess it depends on your setup.

[...]

i have 30ppm from the tap. thats close enough to distilled right?
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With lights off, transpiration all but ceases. The moisture in the rootmass is sufficient to get the plants through the 'night.'

30ppm says that there's SOME dissolved minerals, though you won't know what they are with your EC meter. Their conductivity depends upon what the elements dissolved in your water really are. A rather large amount of a mineral without a lot of free electrons (i.e. limestone) won't cause a high ppm reading, as would ionic compounds like most mineral salts.

If it will leave a water spot on your car's paint, it'll leave mineral residue elsewhere, too. If you really want to remove all minerals from the system to avoid leaving any residue, distilled water is the go.
 
Enigma

Enigma

Well-Known Member
Al B. Fuct said:
With lights off, transpiration all but ceases. The moisture in the rootmass is sufficient to get the plants through the 'night.'

30ppm says that there's SOME dissolved minerals, though you won't know what they are with your EC meter. Their conductivity depends upon what the elements dissolved in your water really are. A rather large amount of a mineral without a lot of free electrons (i.e. limestone) won't cause a high ppm reading, as would ionic compounds like most mineral salts.

If it will leave a water spot on your car's paint, it'll leave mineral residue elsewhere, too. If you really want to remove all minerals from the system to avoid leaving any residue, distilled water is the go.
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Do you buy distilled water or do you distill your own?
 
We TaRdED

We TaRdED

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have you ever ate kangaroo? if so how does it taste?

also do you have kangaroo's frolicking in your back yard?

ok you can yell at me now al! lol i love you.
 
Enigma

Enigma

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Al B. Fuct said:
I don't have small sprayers to clean! :D

However, I do have a dehumidifier which yields about 10L/day of free distilled water if I want it for anything.
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Just wondering, I know a lot of people use distilled for any op. It just sounded like you did too. I figured it would be easier to distill at home than to buy it all the time.. maybe even use a Brita filter...

Enigma
 
Al B. Fuct

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
We TaRdED said:
have you ever ate kangaroo? if so how does it taste?
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No. Oral sex with a kangaroo is banned in all Australian states and territories.

Ever ate bald eagle? Do they taste like chicken?

Any trouble getting their little knickers off? :lol:

also do you have kangaroo's frolicking in your back yard?
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Of course. All that and worse. I have a gang of young, tough, juvenile delinquent wombats- and they won't turn their damn stereos down. There is little worse than the heartbreak of WOMBATS.

Enigma said:
Just wondering, I know a lot of people use distilled for any op. It just sounded like you did too. I figured it would be easier to distill at home than to buy it all the time.. maybe even use a Brita filter...
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Cannabis plants don't need distilled (or other fancy purification method e.g. RO) water. Chlorination in municipal water supplies not only does not hurt plants, it is the friend of the indoor grower. Chlorination suppresses pathogens for 2-4 days in an open nute tank, until the chlorine evaporates from the solution.

Anyone who tells you chlorine hurts cannabis plants or that municipal drinking water must be purified before use in a cannabis grow frankly doesn't know WTF they're talking about. Kinda makes you wonder how cannabis plants got on with that nasty ol' rainwater for a few hundred thousand years before teh w33d b4R0ns got hold of a handful of seeds...

If you've ever used a Brita filter, you know how unbelievably slow they are. If I had to filter 550 litres of water through a Brita each time I changed up my tanks, I'd have to start 2 weeks before I needed it, kid you not.

In more than 20 years of doing this, I have never have seen a problem in an op caused by municipal drinking water. The only time I've ever seen water quality cause problems in a hydroponic op was when the water came from a bore with a lot of dissolved minerals.
 
Enigma

Enigma

Well-Known Member
Al B. Fuct said:
Cannabis plants don't need distilled (or other fancy purification method e.g. RO) water. Chlorination in municipal water supplies not only does not hurt plants, it is the friend of the indoor grower. Chlorination suppresses pathogens for 2-4 days in an open nute tank, until the chlorine evaporates from the solution.

Anyone who tells you chlorine hurts cannabis plants or that municipal drinking water must be purified before use in a cannabis grow frankly doesn't know WTF they're talking about. Kinda makes you wonder how cannabis plants got on with that nasty ol' rainwater for a few hundred thousand years before teh w33d b4R0ns got hold of a handful of seeds...

If you've ever used a Brita filter, you know how unbelievably slow they are. If I had to filter 550 litres of water through a Brita each time I changed up my tanks, I'd have to start 2 weeks before I needed it, kid you not.

In more than 20 years of doing this, I have never have seen a problem in an op caused by municipal drinking water. The only time I've ever seen water quality cause problems in a hydroponic op was when the water came from a bore with a lot of dissolved minerals.
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That's exactly what I thought. The minerals are what concerns me.

I figure if I could build a distiller I'd be in business.. it seems simple enough.
 
Enigma

Enigma

Well-Known Member
I've uploaded a some pics of two designs I'm thinking about.. could you give me some feedback Al B.?
 
Al B. Fuct

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Enigma said:
That's exactly what I thought. The minerals are what concerns me.

I figure if I could build a distiller I'd be in business.. it seems simple enough.
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By the time you get done building and monkeying around with a distiller for water, you could have bought a dehumidifier- which does you a big favour in the flowering area and gives you free distilled water to boot.

Enigma said:
I've uploaded a some pics of two designs I'm thinking about.. could you give me some feedback Al B.?
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k, will look later, up to my nose in it today.

LoudBlunts said:
so al, how do you accurately read the water? what is the ppm of your water out the faucet?
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My municipal tapwater is about 20-50ppm and usually pH 7.1, sometimes jumps to 8 after heavy rains; my water util may be adding extra chlorine to deal with microbes and pathogens washed out of the catchments after particularly heavy rain, accounting for the pH bump.

30ppm is insignificant enough to not bother compensating for in your EC measurements of your nute soln. Stop worrying. :)

I wouldn't worry about your tapwater unless you're on a bore. Bore water quality varies a LOT. It may have excessive salinity or dissolved limestone. Should be tested at least annually if used for drinking; more often if there's any construction or large industry nearby or up the catchment from you.

If on muni water, your only concern will usually be a lot of dissolved limestone ('hard' water). The midwestern US is known for tapwater so hard it's almost crunchy. ;) You wind up buying a new water heater about every 5 years.

If either is the case, a high pH will reveal the high limestone content and will be corrected for when you adjust the pH. If you have a bore which is excessively saline (may show up as a way high EC - 200-250ppm or more out of the tap), you probably shouldn't put it on plants- but then you shouldn't be drinking much of it, either.

If you have any questions about the quality of bore water if you have it, your local council can refer you to testing agencies.
 
FrostickZero

FrostickZero

Well-Known Member
I'm trying to get a harvest every 1 week but right now I am doing clones so that I can do a harvest every week but one day I'm gona try to get a harvest every day
 
Al B. Fuct

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Enigma said:
Would a simple filter before the pump be sufficient?
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Filtration will remove solid particulate matter in suspension in a solution but is ineffective against dissolved solids.

FrostickZero said:
I'm trying to get a harvest every 1 week but right now I am doing clones so that I can do a harvest every week but one day I'm gona try to get a harvest every day
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Slacker.

If you had your shit together, you could be getting a harvest every 15 fuckin' minutes.

I don't wanna see pix from your oh-so-frequently productive op- I want video... from a 3000fps high-speed cam. :D

LoudBlunts said:
lmao....such high hopes for those cfls huh?
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CFLs are great stuff for applications where you need low-intensity light, such as cloning and slow-vegging mums. They are not suitable for flowering, at least if you expect dense, heavy buddage.

For the ventilation or stealth challenged, CFLs may make the difference between flowering a very small amt of poor to ordinary quality bud or none at all.

For flowering cannabis, HPS is the tool for the job. If you think you need the low power consumption of CFL for a micro op, what you really need is a low wattage HPS. The ittybitty HPS toobs are available in 60, 75, 100, 150 and 250W as accent or security lighting from hdwe or lighting speciality stores- and any one of those will beat the yield of twice the wattage of CFLs, with better quality to boot.

The fabled PC cabinet grow has been attempted with CFLs... it actually could work with a clever arrangement of a low wattage HPS in a home-made cooltube. Big fuckin' ups to the joker who cuts up a pickle jar for a cooltube over a 75W and grows in a friggin' shoebox. :D
 
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