Is Time An Illusion?

Finshaggy

Well-Known Member
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
This is what you believe in, based on something that proves it wrong. General Relativity.
[video=youtube;eI9CvipHl_c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI9CvipHl_c&feature=related[/video]
 

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
"In general relativity, there is no such thing as a 'universal time' that makes clocks tick at the same rate everywhere. Instead, gravity makes clocks run at different rates in different places. But quantum mechanics, which describes physical phenomena at infinitesimally small scales, is meaningful only if time is universal; if not, its equations make no sense."



And time is not universal.

Lol.

Black holes and time don't exist, all at once...LOL...

http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050328/full/news050328-8.html
Chapline's ideas regarding black holes are speculative and not accepted by the scientific community at large. His "Crystal Star" or "Dark Energy Star" hypothesis has problems:


[Chapline] presents two major objections to the black hole model, one theoretical and one observational. The observational objection is based on the strong jets of matter shooting out from the accretion discs around black holes: these are not yet fully understood, although partial explanations have been proposed. It’s a challenging problem involving high temperature plasmas and strong magnetic fields, so failure to resolve it may not be a problem with black holes as much as it is a problem with understanding accretion phenomena. The theoretical objection Chapline raises is that any object with an event horizon is incompatible with quantum mechanics. His reason is that there isn’t a universal time associated with an event horizon, which is a true statement: the passage of time measured by an observer depends on their motion relative to the black hole. That’s an inevitable consequence of relativity, but it doesn’t just apply to black holes: the measurement of time on Earth is slightly different than the measurement of time by a satellite in orbit (a correction factor GPS and other communication satellites have to make). In fact, time is always measured relative to an observer, and two observers moving quickly relative to each other will not agree on how much time has passed. That’s Einstein’s relativity, and it is not controversial. Event horizons are also not controversial from a basic understanding of general relativity (and in fact the 18th century physicist Laplace predicted something very similar to them!)

The promising attribute of his hypothesis is that it's testable, so it'll be interesting to see how it goes...

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2011/09/02/what-we-know-about-black-holes-the-game-is-afoot/

P.S. The article you posted was from 2005, a lot can be discovered in 7 years... Also, just because time is relative doesn't mean it doesn't exist...
 

Finshaggy

Well-Known Member
[video=youtube;A4GFAjX62Yg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4GFAjX62Yg[/video]
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/971124b.html

Here's a direct quote from NASA's chosen Astrophysicist:

" Black holes cannot be observed directly and therefore cannot be 'discovered'. "

This is what determined the argument I had before that I mentioned... But there is even more evidence in the posts above than I had that day.


LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL


LMFAO LOL LOL
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Chapline's ideas regarding black holes are speculative and not accepted by the scientific community at large. His "Crystal Star" or "Dark Energy Star" hypothesis has problems:


[Chapline] presents two major objections to the black hole model, one theoretical and one observational. The observational objection is based on the strong jets of matter shooting out from the accretion discs around black holes: these are not yet fully understood, although partial explanations have been proposed. It’s a challenging problem involving high temperature plasmas and strong magnetic fields, so failure to resolve it may not be a problem with black holes as much as it is a problem with understanding accretion phenomena. The theoretical objection Chapline raises is that any object with an event horizon is incompatible with quantum mechanics. His reason is that there isn’t a universal time associated with an event horizon, which is a true statement: the passage of time measured by an observer depends on their motion relative to the black hole. That’s an inevitable consequence of relativity, but it doesn’t just apply to black holes: the measurement of time on Earth is slightly different than the measurement of time by a satellite in orbit (a correction factor GPS and other communication satellites have to make). In fact, time is always measured relative to an observer, and two observers moving quickly relative to each other will not agree on how much time has passed. That’s Einstein’s relativity, and it is not controversial. Event horizons are also not controversial from a basic understanding of general relativity (and in fact the 18th century physicist Laplace predicted something very similar to them!)
 

wheels619

Well-Known Member
time has to be an illusion. lol. cuz when i get really high it either speeds way up or slows way down. lol. time is however u percieve it. if u dont believe me go out and have fun with a stop watch for 5 minutes then go watch wait for water to boil on the stove. tell me what u thought took longer.
 

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
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http://www.mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de/~bruhn/toRabounski030508.html

Highlights:

As I have pointed out on my website the PP-articles by Stephen Crothers are substantially wrong.
Mr. S. Crothers has not understood the concept of black holes and is fighting against his own misconceptions.


Conclusion
The contributions published in PP on Schwarzschild black holes deny the scientific facts listed above and/or contradict them diametrically. Therefore we can only conclude that these publications are dubious and must be considered to be attempt of misleading the less informed readership.

Most physicists consider Crothers a crack-pot:

http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2009/11/are_black_holes_forbidden_math.php

That YouTube video you posted doesn't make me take him seriously. Do you truly understand what Crothers is opposing and why it isn't taken seriously?

 

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
that can't be from nasa. I literally got in an argument with someone, and what determined the end was the nasa website saying that it was false. I'll google, but can you post a link?
You are an IDIOT.

It says nasa in the address bar when you click the link. Please, write the authors of the articles (NASA scientists) and continue your argument with them because OBVIOUSLY you are more of an expert on space and singularities than the scientists at NASA.

You claim NASA says black holes "don't exist", yet they have thousands of articles on Black Holes on www.nasa.gov;

Here are 10 just as a start -

All of these are FROM NASA; (that's what it means when it says www.nasa.gov in that bar above where you're reading this, Fin)


http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2006/spinning_blackhole.html

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/chandra/multimedia/photo10-082.html

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2008/gems.html

http://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudents/5-8/features/F_Do_Black_Holes_Really_Exist.html

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/spitzer/news/spitzer-20071025.html

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/universe/features/smallest_blackhole.html

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/spitzer/multimedia/spitzer20100317a.html

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/universe/blackhole_race.html

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/spitzer/multimedia/pia13168.html

http://www.nasa.gov/connect/chat/black_hole_chat.html


One again, I would just like to reiterate how fucking inept you are at argumentation and research, Finshaggy. Quit being an enormous fucking moron and wasting our time....



Since you don't seem to know how to so this, let me help you;

CLICK HERE


One more thing, in case you're a "visual learner" and reading isn't your forte;

PRETTY SPACE PICTURES OF BLACK HOLES (taken by the Spitzer telescope)

...yes NASA owns the telescope, but maybe you could inform them they are using it incorrectly.
 

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????
You're listening to the wrong Stephen.

[video=youtube;_WSC3BMy23E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WSC3BMy23E[/video]

[video=youtube;qjKxJMH37kI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjKxJMH37kI[/video]

[video=youtube;LK9iNqcgCEM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK9iNqcgCEM[/video]
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
Interesting, IMO. NASA is not a source for science, but for popular science. They need money. They need popular support. For the real science on Time we must consult the likes Leneord Suskind at Standford. He won the last bet with Steven Hawkins about this.

What we call time is timespace. We measure durations across space. It is physically
impossible to cross space without taking a duration to do so....even if you are a pulsing
atom of Cesium in an atomic clock.

So, we are tangled in the asumption that time is flowing thru through our static spaceframe. No, not flowing. Doesn't exist at all as we think. Matter is flowing
(and floating) by displacing timespace, in the universe. What we term "time" is movement of matter.

Another thing, the Big Bang theory was totally busted some years ago, because of this
very concept. There is no time to roll back past 10log-43 sec. Before matter frosted out
of the eary universe, release visible light and began to move in the newly created timespace, there "was" no "(false)time", yet.

"The universe may be stanger than we can understand." AlbertE.
 

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
Interesting, IMO. NASA is not a source for science, but for popular science. They need money. They need popular support. For the real science on Time we must consult the likes Leneord Suskind at Standford. He won the last bet with Steven Hawkins about this.

What we call time is timespace. We measure durations across space. It is physically
impossible to cross space without taking a duration to do so....even if you are a pulsing
atom of Cesium in an atomic clock.

So, we are tangled in the asumption that time is flowing thru through our static spaceframe. No, not flowing. Doesn't exist at all as we think. Matter is flowing
(and floating) by displacing timespace, in the universe. What we term "time" is movement of matter.

Another thing, the Big Bang theory was totally busted some years ago, because of this
very concept. There is no time to roll back past 10log-43 sec. Before matter frosted out
of the eary universe, release visible light and began to move in the newly created timespace, there "was" no "(false)time", yet.

"The universe may be stanger than we can understand." AlbertE.
Ideally, the scientific method should be blind; and science and popular science should be one in the same; we know that's not 100% true, and yes NASA needs funding to survive. I however, don't believe that all of the space organizations in the world are working together to create some sort of "black hole conspiracy theory". There are phenomenon that can be observed, and those phenomenon are best explained best by black holes.

You might enjoy reading some Theodore Sider; he's a Philosopher who does some very interesting pieces on time, time travel, temporal parts theory and some other neat topics.
 

olylifter420

Well-Known Member
Well said man, goodpoints doer!

Another note, i cant believe you guys are still engaging fsgy. How could you continue on with such bs? I mean what he says made no sense to me, im a believer guys and according to some atheists, that makes me dumb. Even i got it, i just thought you should know
 

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
Well said man, goodpoints doer!

Another note, i cant believe you guys are still engaging fsgy. How could you continue on with such bs? I mean what he says made no sense to me, im a believer guys and according to some atheists, that makes me dumb. Even i got it, i just thought you should know
I have never made a remark stating theists are 'dumb'. Intelligence for the most part has nothing to do with your theology, different people are susceptible to religious thought in different magnitudes. It's a tangible, measurable thing; you can see different areas of the brain light up on fMRI or PET (can't remember which scan was used) scans.

It doesn't mean you're dumb for believing it, but it doesn't follow logically either...
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
I'm not at all interested in philosphy. It's just religion by another name. Designed to
propose attitudes within the false reality and has nothing to do with my hardcore energy
physics interests.

My interest is at the boundary of knowledge. I'm seeing an amazing convergence, however, with what is called the soul, animus, spirit body, cucui, or whatever else dogma I may encounter and the new physical discoveries about the Quantum Mind.

Here, another one bites the dust and Hawkins (and I) won this bet.

August 22, at the Biennial International Symposium on Lepton-Photon Interactions at the Tata Institute of Fundamental Research in Mumbai, India, the bombshell was dropped: CERN scientists declared that over the entire range of energy the Collider had explored—from 145 to 466 billion electron volts—the Higgs boson is excluded as a possibility with a 95% probability.

On the subject of black holes. It is widely held, there is no matter remaining in a black
hole. It is bendable timespace that is tightly twisted. The twist energy is fed by matter stripped of everything, stripped to bare energy and feed to the twist. This knot of
timespace is so dense that it creates the illusion of dense matter and it's gravity.

Black holes are observed by the Hawkins radiation they emit.
But, what happens to the information is the bet Hawkins lost
to Suskind.
 

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
I'm not at all interested in philosphy. It's just religion by another name. Designed to
propose attitudes within the false reality and has nothing to do with my hardcore energy
physics interests.

My interest is at the boundary of knowledge. I'm seeing an amazing convergence, however, with what is called the soul, animus, spirit body, cucui, or whatever else dogma I may encounter and the new physical discoveries about the Quantum Mind.

Here, another one bites the dust and Hawkins (and I) won this bet.

August 22, at the Biennial International Symposium on Lepton-Photon Interactions at the Tata Institute of Fundamental Research in Mumbai, India, the bombshell was dropped: CERN scientists declared that over the entire range of energy the Collider had explored—from 145 to 466 billion electron volts—the Higgs boson is excluded as a possibility with a 95% probability.

On the subject of black holes. It is widely held, there is no matter remaining in a black
hole. It is bendable timespace that is tightly twisted. The twist energy is fed by matter stripped of everything, stripped to bare energy and feed to the twist. This knot of
timespace is so dense that it creates the illusion of dense matter and it's gravity.

Black holes are observed by the Hawkins radiation they emit.
But, what happens to the information is the bet Hawkins lost
to Suskind.
We have more than just radiation to support black holes, what about gravitational lensing? And any of the other multitude of methods used to solidify the idea of black holes?

Philosophy isn't a religion, and it has nothing to do with 'false realities', what the hell are you talking about? We discuss more science in my philosophy classes than anything else, because 99% of Philosophy Professors are materialists and have a background in science. Maybe, just maybe, before you place such a tight (and uninformed) noose around an entire branch of study you should investigate it first.

When discussing time travel, and what time is, it's impossible to stray from science; because it's what we have observed and tested about the world. So, how would philosophy be useful at all, (and it is) if it weren't based off of science (which the bulk of any Philosophy degree is).

Biomedical Ethics
Metaphysics
Philosophy of Science
Philosophy of Mind
Critical thinking in the Information age

Just to name a few branches of Philosophy that deal directly with science.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
Dude, you are accusing me of ignorance. This can be a very pissy board at times.
Philosophy is a religious-like approach to human attitudes. Ethics? Just because we had add words together? The Nose Hair of Science? Doesn't make science or nose hair more
appealing. The false reality is the one we are in. It's being proven false everyday.

Aldus Huxley, Keys to the Doors of Perception. He experimented with LSD and
concluded that perception is limited by survival conciousness. In other words there
is an entire other sensorium we have no access to.

Now we find there are 9 different optical paths and only one ends in visual cortex.
The only other one that is defined at present is the "blind sighted" path that can preceive
human emotion facial expression. There a type of blindness where all equipment is OK,
but still in the brain, no vision. These folks react in the MRI to picture of human faces
displaying emotion. The not optical path lights up in the brain and end in the hypocamus.
How many other paths for skin, hearing, all of it?

I may not be able to educate, but I'm not ignornant. I very well informed.

Our reality is defined by magnetic repulsion of atomic surfaces. We experience, not reality, but a consensual based construct due to
the limitations of our meat rocket.
 

olylifter420

Well-Known Member
Dude, you are accusing me of ignorance.
LOL, i am sorry if you understood it that way, as it was not addressed to you and if i remember correctly it is beefy that i quoted dude...
It is pissy to you because you assume things that are not true and make me look like a bad guy, scarface epic bad guy... after i commended you for your great post, you accuse me of accusing you of being ignorant, the only ignorant thing here is you assuming that i said such a thing.

Yes, i know that religion is a philosophy, any belief one has is a philosophy.
 

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
Our reality is defined by magnetic repulsion of atomic surfaces. We experience, not reality, but a consensual based construct due to
the limitations of our meat rocket.
...if you'd be so kind as to keep going with this I'd appreciate it. My understanding of it at present is with regard to bubbles, or droplets and primary color. Don't really know if this is, say...scientific of me to write. I'm driven to art from the axis, so-to-speak, so I may be limited. (...and not by choice)

Thanks.
 
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