True HP Aero For 2011

[PetFlora]

Yeah- Hawaii, and the worst part is raw milk is illegal here... I grew up on the stuff and agree it's alot healthier. I can't believe McDonald's is legal and raw milk isn't- it's just so wrong...

Here they have to sell it for "animal" use only. FDA has cracked on farmers. I can't wait for the complete overthrow of the government

 

[PetFlora]

Well, there seems to be alot of opinions on the subject, so I'll give mine. I believe that microbes are mainly to break down the organic nutrients into a form the plant can absorb. But if you use chemical nutes, they are already in the form most useable by the plant. I'd rather keep a sterile environment and use chemical nutes because of less variables, and less possibility of nozzle clogs. I doubt there is any tangeable difference to the plants, and therefore the same results, if not better due to better control can be achieved this way. I suppose I'd have to run a head to head challenge to be 100% sure, but that's my stance for now.

If my zoology and chemistry serve me correctly, plants (and young children) have no problem breaking down inorganic elements, so the whole 'organic' nutes is more in the head. That said, most ferts (like most vitamins) are made from crap (coal tar!), so it depends on the quality of ferts making up the formula.

 

[PetFlora]

Yes, it's likely not exactly as simple as I just explained. I am sure the good microbes also colonize and smother out the bad ones sort of like how probiotics in your intestinal flora would work. But if you don't need the good guys, you can run low level chlorine or peroxide and keep them all away. Again, it gives you more control when you need it. If you were running organics, and had an issue with some sort of overgrowth of bad bacteria or whatever, you'd not be in a good position to add any bleach or peroxide because you'd disrupt the symbiosis with the good microbes and the plant would then suffer.

Pod Racer said we are not feeding roots, we are feeding microbes, which break down the nutes and feed the plants. That said, I 'think' they develop on their own in an HP environment. I am only using DM nutes and get some colonization in my filters, no doubt due to recirculating during veg.

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Pod Racer said we are not feeding roots, we are feeding microbes, which break down the nutes and feed the plants. That said, I 'think' they develop on their own in an HP environment. I am only using DM nutes and get some colonization in my filters, no doubt due to recirculating during veg.

Totally agree with all you said in the last posts. In regards to this statement it's sort of what I was trying to say, as the microbes feed off the organic nutrients and convert them to a form the plant can digest, but with chemical nutrients they are already in the elemental form most readily absorbable by the roots, and therefore need no processing by the microbes. There is likely other symbiotic interactions going on between the microbes and roots that we don't even understand yet, but they are obviously not totally necessary, but who knows the other possible benefits they could be offering that we don't have a clue about yet. One thing's for sure, you can still grow in excellence without them as long as you are using good nutes.

 

[foresakenlion]

Sorry to hear about your loss, better luck next time and a word of caution to every single one of you, this is not a game.

Quick stop in, was reading about fish rearing troughs, look expensive, but they're very long, about a foot or more deep, and preformed and water proof, might be the perfect one stop chamber for some of you.

Me my self I'm going to frame a box, insulate, and pond liner, the more you do this stuff the more you want to keep things simple, no one enjoys causing their own headaches.

here's a link to one manufacturers selection as an example

http://www.reiffman.com/Aquaculture/MISC/Rearing Troughs 2.pdf

 

[Trichy Bastard]

My first aero roots!

Well, I went camping for the weekend, and just dialed back the time on my mistings to .4 sec/4.5 minutes. I had to do it to ensure I would have enough nutes to last while I was gone, plus I felt it was what the plant needed. I came back after a few days, and besides my 10 gallon res being over half full, I had some new white root growth! There arent and noticeable fuzzies yet, but from what I've seen in the past, I believe the couple root shoots I have today, will be exponentially more by tomorrow or the next day. I dialed the timing back a hair more to .4/5m and will see how it goes.

Here's a pic, with the 2 or 3 new roots, and the mass of old roots from when the plant was soil bound.
EC .33 (160 ppm on the .7 scale) /PH 5.78

 

[PetFlora]

It's been a long time comin'. Let the fun begin

 

[Trichy Bastard]

It's been a long time comin'. Let the fun begin

Serious! Thanks for the good-will Petflora!

 

[r0m30]

My first aero roots!

Congrats.

What kind of netpot in a netpot type of setup do you have going on there?

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Congrats.

What kind of netpot in a netpot type of setup do you have going on there?

They're called "Chrysalis cups" some new innovation...

Hehe, ok kidding, it's just a 2" netpot but I have a 3" one cut in half so that a 3" net pot lid can cover it... I should take a pic and explain better- I actually did in the building pics- the idea was since the chamber lid was double walled, the lower hole fit a 2" netpot, but the upper one was 3" size so the pot could drop all the way down to the lower wall of the lid- otherwise the netpots would have been flush with the lid and the mist wouldn't have gotten to them... Chrysalis cups- pffft!

 

[konagirl420]

Congrats TB!!!!! Go you!!!!

 

[PetFlora]

This is a root shot from a clone started in a Sunleaves Super Starter Cube that was in my DIY bubbler. Just moved it to HPA yesterday. Hoping to see it flourish, but others that have been in there awhile, the roots haven't taken off. You might see them in the background.

 

[konagirl420]

Great job petflora!!!!!

 

[Trichy Bastard]

This is a root shot from a clone started in a Sunleaves Super Starter Cube that was in my DIY bubbler. Just moved it to HPA yesterday. Hoping to see it flourish, but others that have been in there awhile, the roots haven't taken off. You might see them in the background.

View attachment 1877432

How quickly will you dial back the mistings? They're dripping wet in this pic, and I am still trying to understand how much mist and dryness is proper. The roots on the test subject seem happy at the .4sec/5min timings, but I don't have any fuzzyness yet and wonder if I should cut back times further, or would that stress the plant too much till it has a more solid root structure in the first place?

 

[konagirl420]

Watching you to see what you do

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Ok, so anyone who's been following along knows I'm working withm my first life form in the chamber. It was not an ideal situation as I used a soil potted clone, washed the roots, and tried to keep it alive in a netpot in my chamber. The pod temps have been reaching nearly 90 degrees everyday but don't get past that temp since I've recently shaded the chamber with some sun shade cloth. Atomizer reminded me that even with partial shading, the natural tropical sunlight is likely better and stronger than the best synthetic light. I haven't seen him around anywhere and hope he is okay. Yesterday I had signs of my first 2 whispy white aero roots, and today there are 7 or 8 of them. None have any fuzz as of yet, but I'm trying.

I've been adding my nutes and what not with an eyedropper and measuring with my combo ph/tds pen. Obviously this is slightly tedious and today I decided to dump the res and measure everything in drops or ml/gal so I have a recipe to follow even if my pen fails. Of course I calibrated it beforehand, as to get the best readings. I also decided to change the 35% peroxide for bleach as it has better staying power, and my 10 gallon res is lasting nearly a week now. I dialed back the mist timings further to .3sec/5min.
Here is what I am currently mixing up per gallon starting with zero ppm r.o. water:

Botanicare Silica Blast - 15 drops
Canna Substra Vega (softwater)A & B - 1.75ml/gal each (35 drops)
Clorox bleach - 6 drops/gal
Mad farmer ph- "Get Down"- 1.5 drops/gal

This is getting me e/c: 245 u/s (170ppm on .7 scale) and a ph of 5.78
I really prefer to use e/c as it's a universal measurement, and ppm has at least 3 different conversion factors depending on part of the world or brand of the measuring instrument. Since the .7 scale is pretty common and I believe the scale Bluelab Truncheon uses, I try to include it for others, but there are conversion tables out there for anyone interested. I have a Hanna 98129 combo pen, and it automatically adjusts the temperature coefficient and can be programmed to use any ppm conversion factor. If anyone has any comments or tips, now is the time because I'd really like it if my first little girl doesn't die on me- lol... One thing is that since she's outside here in the 12/12 I think she's going to flower at 8 inces tall, so I'm not sure if I ought to be feeding some flower nutes instead already.

EDIT: I just checked my pod thermometer which also measure ambient air temps and here are the readings for the last 3 days:
Ambient Minimum: 77.2f (25.1c) / Pod Minimum: 77.2f (25.1c) (same)
Ambeint Maximum: 89.2f (31.8c) / Pod Maximum 86.4 (30.2c) (so the mist has a slight pulldown effect on the temps). And yes, the temperatures here are beautiful even in November

 

[r0m30]

I am still trying to understand how much mist and dryness is proper. The roots on the test subject seem happy at the .4sec/5min timings, but I don't have any fuzzyness yet and wonder if I should cut back times further, or would that stress the plant too much till it has a more solid root structure in the first place?

I can't help much since I haven't seen any fuzzies
My roots are "damp", I know that sucks for a description, it's kind of like a wash cloth that has been wrung out and that must be to much but I'm working with what I have.
What I gathered from Atomizers cloning advice, he seemed to be advocating HPA from the very start while top feeding if necessary. He said it would keep the roots from making a run for the bottom of the chamber.

Here is what I am currently mixing up per gallon starting with zero ppm r.o. water:

Botanicare Silica Blast - 15 drops
Canna Substra Vega (softwater)A & B - 1.75ml/gal each (35 drops)
Clorox bleach - 6 drops/gal
Mad farmer ph- "Get Down"- 1.5 drops/gal

How long is the bleach lasting? I'm using about half that much and it lasts 4-5 days.

And yes, the temperatures here are beautiful even in November

Even? I've never understood why people vacation in HI during the summer. It's so nice to leave cold and rainy behind in Jan or Feb to hit the big island. Less crowded too if you avoid the weeks before, during and after Ironman.

 

[Trichy Bastard]

I can't help much since I haven't seen any fuzzies
My roots are "damp", I know that sucks for a description, it's kind of like a wash cloth that has been wrung out and that must be to much but I'm working with what I have.
What I gathered from Atomizers cloning advice, he seemed to be advocating HPA from the very start while top feeding if necessary. He said it would keep the roots from making a run for the bottom of the chamber. Okay, well I tried my best to build for fuzzies, so I'll let you guys know how it goes...


How long is the bleach lasting? I'm using about half that much and it lasts 4-5 days. Don't know as of yet, I believe in absence of light and aeration it won't dissapate much- but I suspect any less than what I'm using won't be enough to properly sterilize. Even the guidelines for sterilizing emergency water for drinking call for 6-8 drops per gallon minimum, and go up to 4x that much depending on the source of the info and the status of the water. Bleach really isn't that toxic- I read you could drink it from the bottle and a little wouldn't even get you sick. One thing however, is clorox now includes lye and some other boosters, and I want to find some pure sodium hypochlorite, perhaps the generic brands are more suitable. Atomizer told me he used a bleaching solution made for sterilizing baby's bottles, but I couldn't locate anything similar except lab grade whick was $78/liter, and I'm not even gonna... haha



Even? I've never understood why people vacation in HI during the summer. It's so nice to leave cold and rainy behind in Jan or Feb to hit the big island. Less crowded too if you avoid the weeks before, during and after Ironman.

Quite right, I suppose some families have to do the summers as the kids are out of school... If you ever do visit again, you'd better look me up for a beer buddy!

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Well, approxamately 30 hours later, here is the root growth since the last pic...
30 hours ago:



Now:




I suspect either the heat, or the need to dial back nightime mistings are stopping me from fuzzies, or perhaps even my general mistings need more dialing back?

 

[konagirl420]

Great Job Tb you are my hero hehehe it won't be long before fuzzies come I just know it lol