Is Democracy a fools paradise?

[ralf]

So what do you guys reckon, is Democracy just a big con job? Is it not just a nifty apparatus that allows a certain group of people to gain control of a countries finances, Armed forces. Media, State Broadcasting apparatus and last but not least, the ability to control the minds of the people of any given country?

I have various reasons for believing that Democracy is an insult to the intelligence of the human race, but what do you guys think?

I would genuinely like to know the opinions of the members here.....Excluding the filthy mouthed, Emotional Blackmailers, and the gutter talk rabble of course.

We all know what they have to say already. A vulgarity here an insult there, a scream of anti Semite to end every sentence and not one valid comment on the subject under discussion.

Who needs that kind of riff raff eh?

 

[tip top toker]

Democracy and capitalism just don't seem to go hand in hand. It's pretty hard to say that the people are the voice, the people of importance and all that gubbins, when profit is the primary goal. Just a week or two ago there was talk about a referendum for the UK to leave the EU, there needed to be a vote in parliament for the referendum to go ahead, instead of being, i don't know, democratic and simply putting the question out there, they enforced a rule which basically meant that any member of parliament who voted yes to a referendum, as they had promised their constituents, that they would have to resign. Fantastic democracy, the only arguemnts offered really were that the EU is our biggest trading partner. And? But nope, the countries bank sheet is of ore importance to the actual people of the country.

A country ceases to be without it's people, but a country can keep right on rocking without it's military spending and foreign trade. All one big planned power grab if you ask me just today the news was chock a block about how Germany and France were atlking about breaking up the EU and creating a closer knit group. All these countrues going "bankrupt" well it's only because they played into the game that is "let's create debt and as such control". Italy, greece, ireland, the UK, they're all elling off sovereign bonds to folk, it's not gonna take long before one group holds the power over all of these countries via debt and interest rates.

 

[NoDrama]

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."-Ben Franklin

 

[sso]

its bit difficult to have a democratic system in place, where we allready have another system where people are valued by possessions (capitalism)

so now we have a system where everyone can vote, but the vote´s are about as important as yesterdays´ farts, simply becuase the real power is behind the scenes.

you have to stuff the right pockets to get either justice or create laws (or uncreate them)

we actually havent moved at all from the position of only property owners being able to vote, its just been "hidden".

 

[NoDrama]

The USA is NOT a democracy, the constitution of the USA deliberately specifies and guarantees a REPUBLICAN form of government.

 

[ralf]

Democracy and capitalism just don't seem to go hand in hand. It's pretty hard to say that the people are the voice, the people of importance and all that gubbins, when profit is the primary goal. Just a week or two ago there was talk about a referendum for the UK to leave the EU, there needed to be a vote in parliament for the referendum to go ahead, instead of being, i don't know, democratic and simply putting the question out there, they enforced a rule which basically meant that any member of parliament who voted yes to a referendum, as they had promised their constituents, that they would have to resign. Fantastic democracy, the only arguemnts offered really were that the EU is our biggest trading partner. And? But nope, the countries bank sheet is of ore importance to the actual people of the country.

A country ceases to be without it's people, but a country can keep right on rocking without it's military spending and foreign trade. All one big planned power grab if you ask me just today the news was chock a block about how Germany and France were atlking about breaking up the EU and creating a closer knit group. All these countries going "bankrupt" well it's only because they played into the game that is "let's create debt and as such control". Italy, greece, Ireland, the UK, they're all selling off sovereign bonds to folk, it's not gonna take long before one group holds the power over all of these countries via debt and interest rates.

I heard something regarding France and Germany trying to break up the EU on TV tonight but i had visitors and could hear it properly, is this a real possibility do you know? I hope to G-d that they do, perhaps Britain can then reclaim our independence.

As you say, regarding the Blackmail of British MP's, that is hardly Democracy in action, in fact the creation of the EU itself is an insult to the name of Democracy.

We British got a referendum in 1975 on joining Europe, but on a trade only basis.

So i would then ask, is it just coincidence that every government since that time, both Labour and Conservative, have all thrown us deeper and deeper in to Europe?

Every Prime minister of both parties since 1975 have all been Pro Europe. What are the odds on that being just coincidence?

Even today we have all three party leaders, Conservative, Labour and Liberal, all supporting the EU option. That would make it even more unlikely to be just coincidence.

To sum that up, every party leader for over 35 years..ish + all three party leaders now being Europhiles, looks to me, to be too much of a coincidence.
While i willingly admit, that i am no mathematician or statistician, I would say looking at things realistically, it could well be that our so called Democracy, is quite likely not a Democracy at all.

And there are a few more points that could indicate that Democracy, just might be the biggest con job, the world has ever known.

But what do you guys think, am i paranoid? Am i just fooling my self?

 

[ralf]

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."-Ben Franklin

I love that analogy. So you also think that perhaps our so called Democracy, might not be all that it seems, is that correct to say? ? If
you do think along those lines, you are part of a very small group indeed.

 

[ralf]

its bit difficult to have a democratic system in place, where we allready have another system where people are valued by possessions (capitalism)

so now we have a system where everyone can vote, but the vote´s are about as important as yesterdays´ farts, simply becuase the real power is behind the scenes.

you have to stuff the right pockets to get either justice or create laws (or uncreate them)

we actually havent moved at all from the position of only property owners being able to vote, its just been "hidden".

So you are saying that the political system known as Democracy, is incompatible with Capitalism? That our Western worlds Democracy is financed and driven by people who have a lot of Money? Is that correct?

That being the case, could i ask you, if you have noticed any particular group of people who have gained through one way or another a lot of money?

 

[sso]

sociopaths.

 

[tip top toker]

Oh, and I'm a fool, i fancy taking on the police kettle line with a battalion of armour clad knights on horseback, fuck you and all that lot, horse win! but no, this is no paradise. I've paid 5 different taxes by the time i've turned the key in my cars ignition.

 

[ralf]

The USA is NOT a democracy, the constitution of the USA deliberately specifies and guarantees a REPUBLICAN form of government.

Could i ask, how you personally would define a Republican form of government? Or how the constitution defines a republican government.

I have very little knowledge of how the American political system works, although i have noticed that a certain group of people seem to always be involved in guiding or trying to steer the American government in certain directions.

I also think i know that a certain group of people, control the Finances of America, who it is that at present governs the Federal Reserve and the have almost always controlled the Federal Reserve.

And if my source material is correct, the control of the Federal reserve was achieved by nefarious means, would that be correct?

 

[ralf]

Oh, and I'm a fool, i fancy taking on the police kettle line with a battalion of armour clad knights on horseback, fuck you and all that lot, horse win! but no, this is no paradise. I've paid 5 different taxes by the time i've turned the key in my cars ignition.

Unfortunately, i think i can honestly same thing, its no damn joke is it?

I did hear somewhere that the American tax system is illegal, in that the the bill was pushed through, with out there being the required amount of politicians being present at the time, have you heard anything of this by any chance? Or has anyone else heard anything along those lines?





But speaking of tax's

 

[deprave]

The founders predicted that democracy would be the fall of the republic and they would be correct...while democracy is in essence 'mob rule' in the grandest sense. The 51% vs the 49%...and the word democracy is used in place of liberty today, thats the guise. So American's are basically taught that democracy means freedom when it obviously has nothing to do with freedom. This is the illusion they paint for us, in part credit goes to our own government who associated loosely "Spreading Democracy" with "Spreading freedom".

However, I think democracy at its core is a great idea, assuming it can be fair. I am an advocate for certain types of direct democracy that work on a human level but thats not what we have, we have a couple thousand people in charge of 3.5 billion, we have the 51% ruling the 49% when it comes to the citizen power that we have. Just look at marijuana legalization, at least 49% of us think it should be legal, too bad!

Its not fair to talk about democracy like its some kind of demo hell spawn, but I think its fair to say democracy is not freedom. Liberty is what gives us freedom. To be fair, Democracy is a really good idea with good intentions and can be a great thing.

 

[VILEPLUME]

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."-Ben Franklin

It is also the thing we teach countries to adapt to when we invade them.

 

[sync0s]

I dislike the electoral voting system.

A true government of the people is a republic.

 

[Canna Sylvan]

Socrates knew first hand democracy's virtues. He was even able to democratically vote his method of death too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU-TjUZrYQk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[deprave]

Direct Democracy makes a lot more sense, as opposed to a representative democracy the people participate much more actively in the political process and all of their voices are heard.

Swiss Direct Democracy:
[video=youtube;y5W45Va0cPE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5W45Va0cPE[/video]

A lot of people are talking about this, technology is enabling the possibility of something better then switzerland could imagine:

[video=youtube;Vu8J_UKKa-c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu8J_UKKa-c[/video]


Representative Democracy IS NOT Democracy:
[video=youtube;7InS1EQ9RfU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7InS1EQ9RfU&feature=like-suggest&list=UL[/video]

 

[laughingduck]

I think our founders choose correctly our form of government. I believe that most of our problems with our system is what it has been distorted into. Most people if asked would say we are a democracy, and that is false. We are a republic, which takes out the mob rule part of a democracy. With real time reactions it seems like the system is turning into a direct democracy, which does not leave enough time for clear thought on a subject before the mobs have their way.

 

[deprave]

I think our founders choose correctly our form of government. I believe that most of our problems with our system is what it has been distorted into. Most people if asked would say we are a democracy, and that is false. We are a republic, which takes out the mob rule part of a democracy. With real time reactions it seems like the system is turning into a direct democracy, which does not leave enough time for clear thought on a subject before the mobs have their way.

So you think government moves too hastily and that a representative democracy clearly represents the people when they get some time to think about it? I have to disagree, the people are way ahead of the government, Direct democracy would be a good thing because it eliminates quite a few flaws in the more authoritarian Representative democracy.

I have to disagree witth you when you say its false that we have democracy. Thats an absolutely ridiculous statement, we are a republic also, but far from what the founders dreamed of. The founders also said democracy would be the end of our republic and they have been pretty much right about that. If it was the 1800's and you said that then you might be right but its clearly 2011.

 

[NoDrama]

I love that analogy. So you also think that perhaps our so called Democracy, might not be all that it seems, is that correct to say? ? If
you do think along those lines, you are part of a very small group indeed.

The big enabler of democracy is a central bank, for only a central bank can create money from nothing which the politicians can then use to appease the masses who have voted themselves gifts from the treasury (Welfare, Health Care etc etc).

Could i ask, how you personally would define a Republican form of government? Or how the constitution defines a republican government.

I have very little knowledge of how the American political system works, although i have noticed that a certain group of people seem to always be involved in guiding or trying to steer the American government in certain directions.

I also think i know that a certain group of people, control the Finances of America, who it is that at present governs the Federal Reserve and the have almost always controlled the Federal Reserve.

And if my source material is correct, the control of the Federal reserve was achieved by nefarious means, would that be correct?

A republican form of government is more concerned about the individuals rights than the masses comforts. A republican form of government is rule by law, not by majority. In a democracy you do not need to follow any constitution since all laws are approved or dissolved by the masses of people who are brainwashed/and or fooled into thinking that life in the USA is supposed to be like this. TSA agents at every airport and even at bus depots ready and willing to physically search you because the masses have turned our justice system into guilty until proven innocent. Searching anyone without probable and articulate cause is Unconstitutional.