DWC "FLUSHING" with...................... ?? - STELTHY

[stelthy]

Hi one and all, I am steadily approaching my Harvest date and would really like to hear from all DWC growers what their best method of 'Flushing' is what they/you use ie/ Plain PH balanced water, or a flushing agent etc etc.. ??

I would like to hear all views : Pro's and Cons, and from what point you start the flush & for what duration etc etc... Infact please add as much info as humanly possible on DWC Flushing techniques!


Great replys/post's = GREAT +REP!


I hope others find this thread helpful, many thanks - STELTHY

 

[wiimb]

been watching your plant on the quite grow and i think she is the shit!
job well done!
Plain water and change regular is what i do to flush pal

 

[stelthy]

been watching your plant on the quite grow and i think she is the shit!
job well done!
Plain water and change regular is what i do to flush pal

Have you always used just PH balanced water to flush...or have you tried any other Flushing products? How long do you flush for? - STELTHY

 

[wiimb]

i have never finshed a flush as i have only done one grow and they day i put them in flower the got pinched
and i never added any thing but plain water and i was going to change water every 2 or 3 days untill weeks flush is finshed
here my video of my last grow
[video=youtube;da5tGpRmDKA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da5tGpRmDKA&lc=pCZFqqEiirPui89acAnpHpo6gChJ8NI2I3GDqkfNmgA&feature=inbox[/video]

 

[stelthy]

i have never finshed a flush as i have only done one grow and they day i put them in flower the got pinched
and i never added any thing but plain water and i was going to change water every 2 or 3 days untill weeks flush is finshed
here my video of my last grow
[video=youtube;da5tGpRmDKA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da5tGpRmDKA&lc=pCZFqqEiirPui89acAnpHpo6gChJ8NI2I3GDqkfNmgA&feature=inbox[/video]

Nice...what strain was she? ... its a shame someone stole her/them.. how'd that happen? How many liters did/do your DWC buckets hold? - STELTHY

 

[wiimb]

here m8 as much as i like talking on RIU and other poeples threads mate i have just sucked a huge bong and im bakedd lol
heres a link to the babys of these in the same set-up same buckets same strain
https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/472326-fuk-out-old-new.html

 

[stelthy]

here m8 as much as i like talking on RIU and other poeples threads mate i have just sucked a huge bong and im bakedd lol
heres a link to the babys of these in the same set-up same buckets same strain
https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/472326-fuk-out-old-new.html

Lol ok dude I am just loading a bucket + bottomless 1.5L JD bottle gunna take a huge hit and chill for the next few hours I'll check out your LINK in a sec, cheers for your input though - STELTHY

 

[wiimb]

no bother mate any time

 

[rowlman]

Hi one and all, I am steadily approaching my Harvest date and would really like to hear from all DWC growers what their best method of 'Flushing' is what they/you use ie/ Plain PH balanced water, or a flushing agent etc etc.. ??

I would like to hear all views : Pro's and Cons, and from what point you start the flush & for what duration etc etc... Infact please add as much info as humanly possible on DWC Flushing techniques!


Great replys/post's = GREAT +REP!


I hope others find this thread helpful, many thanks - STELTHY

Holy fuckin shit on a stck!...thats one bushy plant...you gatta post the yield on that baby!
I flush for the last 2 weeks with just water PH'd at 6.0-6.3 or so. I've harvested after only a few days of flush with no difference too though.
Nice job !

 

[stelthy]

Holy fuckin shit on a stck!...thats one bushy plant...you gatta post the yield on that baby!
I flush for the last 2 weeks with just water PH'd at 6.0-6.3 or so. I've harvested after only a few days of flush with no difference too though.
Nice job !

Feel free to check out my thread:-



https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/320402-stelthys-600w-hps-project-new-64.html



The LINK shows the building of my cab, my 1st grow in the cab and this one (Royal Haze ^^ Above) hope you enjoy it

cheers for your input - STELTHY

 

[ATL HYDRO]

Plain water with about 80ml of final phase for my 10 gallon system, then ph balance water and wait 1-2 weeks.

 

[nick17gar]

Um yea that looks dank dude

when i did DWC, and now in soil, i refuse to flush unless theres an issue. i do taper off nutrients towards the end, and the last 2 weeks or so i use 0 *chems*.
i say Chems specifically because when im getting ready to harvest, i use sugars/carbs/juice extracts til the last day. this last harvest, i had watered a bit with different extracts (lemon / orange) and the taste is there. on another i kept doing chems til the last day, and its harsh.

the best thing ive done so far, was cut off all nutrients about 2 weeks before harvest, leave sugars (molasses) and kept using that bottle of "sweet" til the last day. i added pure water and that stuff, and the residual chems in the reservoir kept being diluted over and over til they were all nil.

either way no matter what ya decide to do, looks like you got something well worth being proud of. grats man!

EDIT: i cut off the water pumps 1-2days before too, when they go into that 24-36hr dark period. it gets them a lil drier, faster. (if growing peppers, it makes the peppers spicier too. "thats a spicy meatball!". i got some big nugs, and spicy peppers lol)

 

[woodsmaneh!]

Very nice plant, like wow!


Pr-harvest flushing puts the plants under serious stress.

I don't flush and have not done so for about 10 years. I found that starving my plants of food was counter productive. No-one in the growing world does this but weed farmers and the only reason people do it is manufactures can sell shitty products. If you cut back on the food by 50% you will get a better yield and that's what we all want. Now for some reasons not to flush, when you flush with water the first element to flush out is N, but when the N is gone it locks up other elements like Magnesium. Without Nitrogen mag stays where it is, in your plant. Evey smoke weed that popped and sparked? So if you must flush always use 25% of recommended nutrients. The other thing is the smoke and taste are all done in curing not flushing.


I put the summery first, It is also backed up by science links attached.


Summary:

Pre-harvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are losing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well.

The grower should react in an educated way to the plant needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn’t be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue. It doesn’t sound likely to the author that you can correct growing errors (significant lower mobile nutrient compound levels) with pre-harvest flushing.

For one thing, the most common way that growers flush their crops is by giving their crops water that has no nutrients in it. But this doesn't fully cleanse your crops. It only starves your plants so they lose vigorous floral growth and resin percentages just before harvest. Other growers use flushing formulas that generally consist of a few chemicals that sometimes have the ability to pull a limited amount of residues out of your plants.


Nutrient fundamentals and uptake:

Until recently it was common thought that all nutrients are absorbed by plant roots as ions of mineral elements. However in newer studies more and more evidence emerged that additionally plant roots are capable of taking up complex organic molecules like amino acids directly thus bypassing the mineralization process.

The major nutrient uptake processes are:

1) Active transport mechanism into root hairs (the plant has to put energy in it, ATP driven) which is selective to some degree. This is one way the plant (being immobile) can adjust to the environment.

2) Passive transport (diffusion) through symplast to endodermis.

http://www.biol.sc.edu/courses/bio102/f99-3637.html

The claim only ‘chemical’ ferted plants need to be flushed should be taken with a grain of salt. Organic and synthetic ferted plants take up mineral ions alike, probably to a different degree though. Many influences play key roles in the taste and flavour of the final bud, like the nutrition balance and strength throughout the entire life cycle of the plant, the drying and curing process and other environmental conditions.

3) Active transport mechanism of organic molecules into root hairs via endocytosis.

Here is a simplified overview of nutrient functions:

Nitrogen is needed to build chlorophyll, amino acids, and proteins. Phosphorus is necessary for photosynthesis and other growth processes. Potassium is utilized to form sugar and starch and to activate enzymes. Magnesium also plays a role in activating enzymes and is part of chlorophyll. Calcium is used during cell growth and division and is part of the cell wall. Sulphur is part of amino acids and proteins.

Plants also require trace elements, which include boron, chlorine, copper, iron, manganese, sodium, zinc, molybdenum, nickel, cobalt, and silicon.

Copper, iron, and manganese are used in photosynthesis. Molybdenum, nickel, and cobalt are necessary for the movement of nitrogen in the plant. Boron is important for reproduction, while chlorine stimulates root growth and development. Sodium benefits the movement of water within the plant and zinc is needed for enzymes and used in auxins (organic plant hormones). Finally, silicon helps to build tough cell walls for better heat and drought tolerance.

http://www.sidwell.edu

You can get an idea from this how closely all the essential elements are involved in the many metabolic processes within the plant, often relying on each other.

Nutrient movement and mobility inside the plant:

Besides endocytosis, there are two major pathways inside the plant, the xylem and the phloem. When water and minerals are absorbed by plant roots, these substances must be transported up to the plant's stems and leaves for photosynthesis and further metabolic processes. This upward transport happens in the xylem. While the xylem is able to transport organic compounds, the phloem is much more adapted to do so.

The organic compounds thus originating in the leaves have to be moved throughout the plant, upwards and downwards, to where they are needed. This transport happens in the phloem. Compounds that are moving through the phloem are mostly:
Sugars as sugary saps, organic nitrogen compounds (amino acids and amides, ureides and legumes), hormones and proteins.

http://www.sirinet.net

Not all nutrient compounds are movable within the plant.

1) N, P, K, Mg and S are considered mobile: they can move up and down the plant in both xylem and phloem.
Deficiency appears on old leaves first.

2) Ca, Fe, Zn, Mo, B, Cu, Mn are considered immobile: they only move up the plant in the xylem.
Deficiency appears on new leaves first.

http://generalhorticulture.tamu.edu

Storage organelles:

Salts and organic metabolites can be stored in storage organelles. The most important storage organelle is the vacuole, which can contribute up to 90% of the cell volume. The majority of compounds found in the vacuole are sugars, polysaccharides, organic acids and proteins though.

http://jeb.biologists.org.pdf

Trans-location:

Now that the basics are explained, we can take a look at the trans-location process. It should be already clear that only mobile elements can be trans located through the phloem. Immobile elements can’t be trans located and are not more available to the plant for further metabolic processes and new plant growth.

Since flushing (in theory) induces a nutrient deficiency in the root-zone, the translocation process aids in the plants survival. Trans-location is transportation of assimilates through the phloem from source (a net exporter of assimilate) to sink (a net importer of assimilate). Sources are mostly mature fan leaves and sinks are mostly apical meristems, lateral meristem, fruit, seed and developing leaves etc.

You can see this by the yellowing and later dying of the mature fan leaves from the second day on after flushing started. Developing leaves, bud leaves and calyxes don’t serve as sources, they are sinks. Changes in those plant parts are due to the deficient immobile elements which start to indicate on new growth first.

Unfortunately, several metabolic processes are unable to take place anymore since other elements needed are no longer available (the immobile ones). This includes processes where nitrogen and phosphorus, which have likely the most impact on taste, are involved.

For example nitrogen: usually plants use nitrogen to form plant proteins. Enzyme systems rapidly reduce nitrate-N (NO3-) to compounds that are used to build amino-nitrogen which is the basis for amino acids. Amino acids are building blocks for proteins; most of them are plant enzymes responsible for all the chemical changes important for plant growth.

Sulphur and calcium among others have major roles in production and activating of proteins, thereby decreasing nitrate within the plant. Excess nitrate within the plant may result from unbalanced nutrition rather than an excess of nitrogen.

http://muextension.missouri.edu

Summary:

Pre-harvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are losing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well.

The grower should react in an educated way to the plant needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn’t be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue. It doesn’t sound likely to the author that you can correct growing errors (significant lower mobile nutrient compound levels) with pre-harvest flushing.

Drying and curing (when done right) on the other hand have proved (In many studies) to have a major impact on taste and flavour, by breaking down chlorophylls and converting starches into sugars. Most attributes blamed on un-flushed buds may be the result of unbalanced nutrition and/or over fertilization and improper drying/curing.

 

[kindnugz]

Wow, nice plant! LST/Scrogging like this is the way to go if you have the time and patience for a longer veg cycle. It also helps maximize your output if you are limited to a certain number of flowering plants according to state mmj laws.

When I switch to flush mode, I use a Botanicaire ClearEx solution in a garden sprayer to spray down and flush out the entire inside of the 19 gallon plastic bin and underside of the net pot. You can see the clearex carrying away all kinds of residue. I flush a second time with PH 5.8 water to make sure it is all rinsed out. A PPM meter is helpful to make sure of a good flush. Then I'm ready for a week of running with water only.

To be honest I am incapable of telling flushed from non-flushed weed when I smoke it. I am still working on refining those skills. That doesn't stop me from striving to put out the best possible medical bud that I can!

 

[ChronicClouds]

I PH to 5.5 for flushing. I like to change my reservoir back to back at least twice before I cut.

 

[stelthy]

Hmm..some useful info so far... I am still on the fence as to whether to keep feeding with 25% of my nuitrient measures or whether to just use PH balanced water either on its own or with a flushing agent... I am wondering how much growth I'll lose if I just use PH balanced water with or without the flushing agent instead of feeding until the end ??

Has anyone kinda flushed ie/ cut out all nuits except Boost, or Cha-Ching ?? ,,, I wonder if this would help, and or increase bud size whilst also clearing the plant from the other nuitrient build-ups etc ??

I have am due to start Flushing tommoz.. so its crucial now that I decide upon the best way to bring my lady to her glorious end. I could cut out all nuits except either Boost or Cha-Ching for the duration of 1 week and then in the final week .. then... use just PH Balanced water!??



Also on a separate note whats the deal with water curing? Pro's n Con's please !! ............. many thanks - STELTHY

 

[nick17gar]

i just dont think its good to starve them. the plants dont like flushing them with a huge amount of pure water, so thats an added stress at the very end of the life cycle. i think cutting back on nutes will allow the plant to use the build up nutrients.

i agree with woodsmanah, no one other than pot growers flush. at the same time no one other than pot growers probably give as much of a fuck about their plants.
even when doing peppers, and going for spicy spicy peppers i dont flush, i just stop using nutes towards the end, and dont water the last day or 2.
i dont think ive ever heard of anyone that does fruits or veggies actually "flush" the plant with tons of water to remove chems.

Perhaps the best thing to do now is to break off a branch, mail it to me, ill smoke it. then stop using ferts, mail me branch #2, ill smoke that, then flush it, mail me branch 3 and ill smoke that. ill holler when my research is complete =)

really it seems like a trade off, the flushing is said to lower the harsh-ness of the smoke, but at the same time it can cut down on potency. id rather a lil tingle in the back of the throat, and a massive high, then sucking in something that refreshing on the throat and not getting high at all.

 

[k0ijn]

Hi one and all, I am steadily approaching my Harvest date and would really like to hear from all DWC growers what their best method of 'Flushing' is what they/you use ie/ Plain PH balanced water, or a flushing agent etc etc.. ??

I would like to hear all views : Pro's and Cons, and from what point you start the flush & for what duration etc etc... Infact please add as much info as humanly possible on DWC Flushing techniques!


Great replys/post's = GREAT +REP!


I hope others find this thread helpful, many thanks - STELTHY

Congrats on such a fine result

I do not flush myself and therefore cannot recommend it but what I know from people who flush, they tend to use RO water pH'ed properly.
I would like to point out that flushing plants haven't been shown to improve taste, harshness factor, odour or anything else even though people might say so, even though people like Jorge Cervantes might say so.
It's a disputed issue and the two sides are basically:



Pro:
You can improve the harshness factor (reducing it) by flushing and some also claim to have taste & odour improvements.
^ This is very disputed.

Flushing is key in correcting medium imbalances (mineral buildup etc.), pH problems and other 'growing errors'.
This is not really flushing per se, but what is known as leeching.
^ This is probably the most important fact about 'flushing', since it's proven and is used by everyone (every time you change water in a hydro DWC setup you are basically flushing (wether that may be removing stale water, changing pH or adding / taking nutrients).
The important thing to know is that even when you leech you do not remove any nutrients stored in the plant you can only correct errors in the medium and the water.



Con:
Removing nutrients in the most critical phase of flowering is logically not a smart thing to do since you deprive the plant(s) of their 'food' and in turn thereby lower their ability to reach their full potential.
What is proven to affect harshness, smoke, odour, taste etc. is a drying & curing, therefore it would seem logical to focus on that part.






When all is said and done, it's a preference call for many, and it's taken very lightly sometimes, which results in a lot of errors.
Your best bet is to try it all out for yourself and read the conclusions as to better your personal grow.



I however will still advice against doing it, no matter what, you will starve your plants at the most critical time and it will affect the outcome of your harvest.

 

[nick17gar]

so how long did you veg/flower this plant anyways? that photo makes me wanna try some scrog.

 

[mike91sr]

The important thing to know is that even when you leech you do not remove any nutrients stored in the plant you can only correct errors in the medium and the water.

Question about this. Based on chemical/physical properties of osmosis/diffusion, the plant would sense the lower concentration of nutrients in their environment compared to roots. So it would either:
A. Take up extreme amounts of water in an attempt to dilute the higher concentrate of nutrients inside the plant
B. Expel nutrients into the medium to raise the concentration