Smart Pots

Sunbiz1

Well-Known Member
As a relatively new product, I haven't seen a whole lot of reviews here or anywhere else. The few that I have seen were all favorable, wish I had thought/patented the concept!.

For anyone that has used these, I was hoping you could answer a few questions. The smallest available container is a 1 gal(already bought a few for the next grow), they go up 7 I believe. Do we transplant out of these like I normally would?. I always start with smaller containers than a gallon and transplant several times up to a 5 gal 2 weeks prior to flower.

It looks like I simply would cut the smart pot and transplant to a larger, or should I wait longer than normal to transplant...start with larger pots???.

This is totally new to me, any input would be great.

Biz
 

matthebrute

Well-Known Member
i thought smart pots were like peat pots the rooots grow right through the pot. I have no clue tho just what i "thought"
 

matthebrute

Well-Known Member
The root structure in Smart Pots is finer and interwoven with the pot interior so you really have to roll it around some and loosen up all sides and the bottom. Make sure it is time to pot up also as having a solid built root system makes it muuuch easier than say a regular pot where you can kind of get by making sure the soil is wet and holding it gently.

Smart Pot rootballs should be totally soaked before transplanting if you are going to do it, imho. The fine root structure gives way really easily and breaks up if it's taken out of the Smart Pot with any dry spots

copy pasted from another thread
 

matthebrute

Well-Known Member
I transplant smart pot's into smart pots . That way its stress free on the roots , and very easy. I use #1's , then into #3's , and then into #7's . and Im considering up sizing pot sizes on my next run .


Goldenglow, I am very close to harvesting a plant that has a 3gallon inside of a 7 gallon , So I will be able to see if the smart pots inside are usable for a second round , or if the roots destroy them. But I have a feeling they will be reusuable , so Dont cut them anymore ! Stay tuned and I will let you guys know If they are intact inside the 7's after I chop.

copy pasted from another thread.
 

matthebrute

Well-Known Member
just trying to help answer your question like i said i have no clue. but if the roots dont grow through the pot then it really isnt that smart of a pot, i would think that they would make them easily transplantable.
 

blimey

Active Member
They are smart pots because since they are flexible air gets down the sides and when roots meet open air they are "air pruned" and stop growing out and branch out a bunch of little roots from that root. That's why the root structure is finer. I have also read that the little roots are better at taking up nutes but I'm not sure.
 

bestbuds09

Well-Known Member
if you want something better then just go with airpots. imo the plants have better root structure and not only but it grows faster imo.

heres a LINK.......


heres a video,,,,,,,,, [youtube]ojPbf3MkuC4[/youtube]
 

matthebrute

Well-Known Member
i have been reading a few forums in past few min about it and i have gotten mixed results, some people say they transplant the pot right into another pot with no ill effects and others say to "roll" the pot untill it loosens enough to pull out of the bag.

maybe do 1 plant the bag in bag method and roll the rest and see what the effects are then you will know for future grows or roll em all and start a plant just for the experiment :) either way GL man hope i could help
 
My plants grow bushier and faster after the switch to smart pots and would recommend this to anyone as its a cheap easy way to improve an important aspect to your plant.
 

Brick Top

New Member
just trying to help answer your question like i said i have no clue. but if the roots dont grow through the pot then it really isnt that smart of a pot, i would think that they would make them easily transplantable.

Smart Pots is just a brand name for one of several air root pruning pots. The "smart" part is not about roots growing through the openings in the pots. When root tips get close enough to the edges of the pots and come in contact with enough air the root tips die but then like when you prune plants the root tips split off into two and each new root tip heads off in different directions and by doing so you get a fuller healthier root structure that is not a tightly wound root-bound root-ball.

When it comes to re-potting. I never re-pot. Ever. I pick a pot size for each grow, normally 7-gallong pots but somewhat often 5-gallon pots, and I start my seedlings in the pots and they live their entire life in the one single pot.

If starting plants out in small pots is better then explain why plants will do so well outside when the entire planet is their pot.

Would this plant be more impressive if it had been started in a small pot and then up-canned a time or two and only then planted in the ground?





Nevil

Breeder
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,145



Wow that's a plant Darwinsbulldog, about $50,000 worth where I live.
I'm truly impressed.
N.
Since plants can grow like that when having limitless root space from day one what is the true benefit of starting plants out in small pots and then risking all that goes with it?

I stopped starting plants in small pots when we began planting trees at our nursery that would be grown to a large caliper size before being sold and doing so in the largest sized pot they would have in the past been bumped up to (as large as 50 gallon pots), and their rate of growth and health was improved over starting them in small pots and up-canning them each season.
 

matthebrute

Well-Known Member
well if the roots grow to the outside of the pot and are able to make contact with the air then i would imagine once that air is replaced by soil the roots will grow into the next bag if you transplant the pot to pot method untill they reach the outside of the new bag....amirite, this does seem to make sense but hell who needs common sense.
 

Psychedelic Breakfast

Well-Known Member
Hey sunbiz, I finished my grow a month or so back and used smart pots. I had two main plants in smart pots.

The first started out in a 16 oz party cup, then into a 1 gallon smart pot. After it grew into the pot, i ended up transfering it to a 3 gallon for its final home. Transplanting is relatively easy because you can just pull down the sides of the pots and move the rootball+plant into a new container.

The second plant went straight from a 16 oz party cup right into a 3 gallon smart pot.

As far as which is better, I'm not sure. I prefer using smaller containers because theres not as much loose soil to manage.

Both worked, but this time around i'll probably put them both into 1 gallon pots before the 3 gallon.

Hope that helps! :eyesmoke:
 

Sunbiz1

Well-Known Member
Smart Pots is just a brand name for one of several air root pruning pots. The "smart" part is not about roots growing through the openings in the pots. When root tips get close enough to the edges of the pots and come in contact with enough air the root tips die but then like when you prune plants the root tips split off into two and each new root tip heads off in different directions and by doing so you get a fuller healthier root structure that is not a tightly wound root-bound root-ball.

When it comes to re-potting. I never re-pot. Ever. I pick a pot size for each grow, normally 7-gallong pots but somewhat often 5-gallon pots, and I start my seedlings in the pots and they live their entire life in the one single pot.

If starting plants out in small pots is better then explain why plants will do so well outside when their entire planet is their pot.

Would this plant be more impressive if it had been started in a small pot and then up-canned a time or two and only then planted in the ground?







Since plants can grow like that when having limitless root space from day one what is the true benefit of starting plants out in small pots and then risking all that goes with it?

I stopped starting plants in small pots when we began planting trees at our nursery that would be grown to a large caliper size before being sold and doing so in the largest sized pot they would have in the past been bumped up to (as large as 50 gallon pots), and their rate of growth and health was improved over starting them in small pots and up-canning them each season.
Good morning Brick,

Thanks for helpful insight, as usual. I guess my question would be, Do we really want to use the same limited amount of medium for an entire grow?. Containing plants is not natural to begin with, as you mentioned our in-grounds have the entire planet to work with. So, here we are dumping water through this limited amount of soil over and over again during contained grows. Do we not lose a portion of our soil nutrients over time with this method, or am I missing something?. I like to give my ladies fresh soil to work with on occasion...is this a waste of time and $$?.
 

Sunbiz1

Well-Known Member
And to whomever moved this thread, there was a reason I placed it where it was...which was where it belonged.
 
the point of using a smaller pot, then going to bigger is so you don't have to water 5 gallons of dirt that isn't being used by a small plant.
my 2 cents
 

Brick Top

New Member
well if the roots grow to the outside of the pot and are able to make contact with the air then i would imagine once that air is replaced by soil the roots will grow into the next bag if you transplant the pot to pot method untill they reach the outside of the new bag....amirite, this does seem to make sense but hell who needs common sense.

But that is not the designed function of air root pruning pots.


How the Air-Pot works

Please click on the play button to see the DVD

Air-Pot containers have unusual cuspated walls, sort of an egg box configuration, made up of closed inward pointing cones and open ended outward pointing cones. There are no flat surfaces on the inside of the container to deflect roots and start the spiralling process.
The inward pointing cones direct the roots further outward to the open ended cones where, because the air density in the soil is too great, the roots dehydrate and are effectively pruned.
The plant responds to this "air-pruning" by sending out more roots to compensate for the loss which leads to a dense root system with a vast number of active white tipped roots.
The porosity of the Air-Pot wall also creates better conditions for bacterial activity and thus increases the amount of nutrients available to the plant. With so much root right back to the stem, the root system is very efficient in its use of all the available water and nutrient.
Plant vigour and health is therefore guaranteed.


Since roots dehydrate and push out more roots when the soil air density is to great how would you expect roots to ignore the soil air density and grow through the holes in pots out of soil and into nothing but air?


Maybe you are seeing the use of the pots as being when re-potting is needed you can just set one smaller pot containing a plant inside a larger pot and fill in soil between the two and then roots from the smaller inner pot should grow through the holes and into the soil in the larger outer pot. I have no idea if that would or would not occur. I would think it to be possible though. But then that is not the purpose of the pot design. It would be using the pots in a totally different way than they were intended to be used.



But using the same logic there would be no reason to actually re-pot plants in regular pots. Hole could be cut or drilled in the pots that have become to small and they could be set inside larger pots or the bottom two or three inches of the small pot could be cut off and it then set into a larger deeper pot and the roots could grow out of the small pot into the larger deeper pot without needing to fully remove the plant from the smaller pot.



Either could be done, but then an entire lawn can be cut with a weed eater. But just because it could be done would not make it the right way or the best way of doing so. And it would be the same with putting one smaller pot inside a larger pot.



Like any plant, one should be in a pot that is large enough to allow a healthy plant to grow and air root pruning pots are designed to create a healthier more efficient root structure for the above soil portion of plants to rely on and be healthier because of.


Plants will try to maintain as equal as possible a 50/50 mass ratio between above ground growth and below ground growth. Of course a main stem, branches, leaves, flowers/buds look very different than roots, but the overall mass/volume of each, if given a proper amount of soil to grow in, will at all times be very close to a 50/50 ratio if a plant is healthy. When you deprive a plant of adequate below ground grown space it will negatively effect the above ground growth.
 

Brick Top

New Member
Good morning Brick,

Thanks for helpful insight, as usual. I guess my question would be, Do we really want to use the same limited amount of medium for an entire grow?.
If you pick proper sized pots for what you will grow and how you will grow it you are not limiting or containing root growth.

As I mentioned I normally use 7-gallon pots though at times I will use 5-gallon pots. I failed to mention that is inside. I do not grow plants inside that are so tall and bushy that they need more than 7-gallons of soil to keep from having a crowded root-bound root structure.

Outside I use 15-gallon to 25-gallon pots.

Unless I misjudge the needs of a strain, and that has only happened a few times when I used 5-gallon pots, I never encounter the root-bound condition, and the few times it has been minimal. Most times using 5-gallon pots all of the soil will be used by roots, but not to a point approaching a root-bound condition. When I use the various larger pots, depending on if inside or outside and strain and veg time the most I will find at the deepest portions of the pots/soil are small roots that are no where near being crowded or tangled.There is no limitation involved.



Containing plants is not natural to begin with, as you mentioned our in-grounds have the entire planet to work with. So, here we are dumping water through this limited amount of soil over and over again during contained grows. Do we not lose a portion of our soil nutrients over time with this method, or am I missing something?. I like to give my ladies fresh soil to work with on occasion...is this a waste of time and $$?.

Consider the amount of space a plant's roots will use/spread to outside. How many times do you run water through it? How many times does it rain and more water passes through it? Did you happen to see the pictures of one plant grown outside, the monster plant that Nevil said the crop would be worth about $50,000.00 where he lives?

How do trees live hundreds of years without being given fresh soil periodically? You might ay their roots expand into fresh soil, but once a tree reaches it's full height/size it's roots do not continue to expand their range and spread into fresh soil. So for many years, or even decades or more, it survives in the exact same soil. While there is not a man made/artificial container plants, bushes and trees basically contain themselves within a certain amount of space. It is a more free-form shape than a container is, but the area used is not limitless. What is used is what is needed and using large pots to grow in you give plants the needed amount of space for roots.

How is it possible that the plant in the picture I posted could grow as it did and produce as well as it did? Natural soil, organics continually replenishing the soil and feeding the plant in conjunction with fertilizers and other nutrients being added to the soil, along of course with adequate moisture.

Growing in a pot is virtually the very same thing. If you provide adequate root space, which most growers do not do, and make sure that all nutritional needs are met then it is not as if you are growing in depleted soil and in need of fresh replacement soil. Places that sell high dollar designer soils will tell you that you should or need to replace the soil during a grow, but that is how they sell more soil and increase their profits.

Like most growers I used to start my plants out in small containers and up-can one, two or more times. But after seeing the performance of trees and bushes at our nursery, ones that were intended to be grow to large size. large caliper size, before being sold and that were started out in the size container they would be in when they would reach the size they would be sold at growing faster and being healthier than the other trees and bushes of the very same type that began in 1-gallon pots and were then up-canned to 3-gallon pots and then up-canned to 5-gallon pots and then up-canned to 7-gallon pots etc. etc. etc. I no longer saw a need to start plants in small containers and up-can.

There is less fuss and less mess and you eliminate the risk of damaging plants when re-potting and you eliminate any plant stress, even just short term, from re-potting. You don't use more soil, and if you are someone who likes to remove as much of the old soil as can safely be removed when re-potting you will use less soil in the long run so it keeps costs down. Some people claim that small plants in large containers risks root rot because the lower soil can be overly moist. Well, if you have short/small plants they have short/small roots so the roots are not down deep enough to be in what, if over watering is done, could be soil that is overly moist and could cause root rot. Also because of the moisture retention in the lower areas of the pots as the upper soil dries out through plant usage/transpiration, and evaporation moisture will wick up and plants are less likely to become over dry. The lower moisture will not wick up faster than the upper moisture is lost, so again, there is no danger of root rot.

There has been times when I has small plants and I needed to be away for a few days or so and normally my plants would need to be watered. I would water my plants as per usual and let the pots drain, but then fill the drip trays with water. I use somewhat deep drip trays so that put about 2 1/2 inches of water into the trays and the bottom 2 1/2 inches of the soil. If the roots were that deep it would cause an over watering situation and possible root rot. But since the roots were not that deep in the pots the highly saturated soil and water in the drip trays was not a problem. By the time I would get back home most or all the water from the drip trays would be gone. Some naturally evaporated, but some, along with the excess moisture in the lower soil, wicked up to replace the moisture that was used or lost in the upper part of the pots, where the plant's roots were, and I came home to happy perky plants.

I think the reason the belief that you need to start plants in small containers, sometimes party cups or even smaller containers, is because of what people see many ornamental plants in when they are sold. But consider the reasons why ornamentals are sold in flats of tiny containers. Most are greenhouse grown. The more plants you can fit per greenhouse the more plants you can sell. That means increased profits. If you are growing say 100,000 plants to be sold to Lowes and Wal-Mart etc. the smaller the container you can grow them in means you use less soil. That saves more money. When the plants are shipped more plants will fit on a truck making the per-plant shipping cost less, and that equates to saved money and increased profits. Part of what home gardeners like is to watch their plants grow. So smaller plants are more desirable than larger plants, when dealing with ornamental plants anyway, so it is senseless to grow and ship large plants in large containers to be sold.

So the true reasons behind starting plants in small containers is one of profit and not that they produce better healthier plants.

Have you ever noticed the late spring leftover flats or small pots of plants? Have you noticed how they are stretched, how they are spindly, how they are most times droopy, even shortly after being watered, how they can look sickly? They have outgrown their containers, they are root-bound. The small containers are only good for a limited period of time and after that they are harmful to plants. The plant's roots need lebensraum, living space, enough area to grow deeper and wider, to expand their range until they eventually reach their maximum size/range.

Just as the entire planet is never to large for even the smallest of plants to grow in, you can never use pots that are to large. But you can very easily, and most people do, use pots that are to small for fully healthy plants that will produce to their maximum capability. Even when people start with small containers and up-can they seldom end up using a large enough pot for their final finishing size. Unless someone's grow area/setup is such where there is a pot size limiting factor that will keep them from being able to use larger pots there is no valid reason to use undersized pots.
 

Sunbiz1

Well-Known Member
If you pick proper sized pots for what you will grow and how you will grow it you are not limiting or containing root growth.

As I mentioned I normally use 7-gallon pots though at times I will use 5-gallon pots. I failed to mention that is inside. I do not grow plants inside that are so tall and bushy that they need more than 7-gallons of soil to keep from having a crowded root-bound root structure.

Outside I use 15-gallon to 25-gallon pots.

Unless I misjudge the needs of a strain, and that has only happened a few times when I used 5-gallon pots, I never encounter the root-bound condition, and the few times it has been minimal. Most times using 5-gallon pots all of the soil will be used by roots, but not to a point approaching a root-bound condition. When I use the various larger pots, depending on if inside or outside and strain and veg time the most I will find at the deepest portions of the pots/soil are small roots that are no where near being crowded or tangled.There is no limitation involved.






Consider the amount of space a plant's roots will use/spread to outside. How many times do you run water through it? How many times does it rain and more water passes through it? Did you happen to see the pictures of one plant grown outside, the monster plant that Nevil said the crop would be worth about $50,000.00 where he lives?

How do trees live hundreds of years without being given fresh soil periodically? You might ay their roots expand into fresh soil, but once a tree reaches it's full height/size it's roots do not continue to expand their range and spread into fresh soil. So for many years, or even decades or more, it survives in the exact same soil. While there is not a man made/artificial container plants, bushes and trees basically contain themselves within a certain amount of space. It is a more free-form shape than a container is, but the area used is not limitless. What is used is what is needed and using large pots to grow in you give plants the needed amount of space for roots.

How is it possible that the plant in the picture I posted could grow as it did and produce as well as it did? Natural soil, organics continually replenishing the soil and feeding the plant in conjunction with fertilizers and other nutrients being added to the soil, along of course with adequate moisture.

Growing in a pot is virtually the very same thing. If you provide adequate root space, which most growers do not do, and make sure that all nutritional needs are met then it is not as if you are growing in depleted soil and in need of fresh replacement soil. Places that sell high dollar designer soils will tell you that you should or need to replace the soil during a grow, but that is how they sell more soil and increase their profits.

Like most growers I used to start my plants out in small containers and up-can one, two or more times. But after seeing the performance of trees and bushes at our nursery, ones that were intended to be grow to large size. large caliper size, before being sold and that were started out in the size container they would be in when they would reach the size they would be sold at growing faster and being healthier than the other trees and bushes of the very same type that began in 1-gallon pots and were then up-canned to 3-gallon pots and then up-canned to 5-gallon pots and then up-canned to 7-gallon pots etc. etc. etc. I no longer saw a need to start plants in small containers and up-can.

There is less fuss and less mess and you eliminate the risk of damaging plants when re-potting and you eliminate any plant stress, even just short term, from re-potting. You don't use more soil, and if you are someone who likes to remove as much of the old soil as can safely be removed when re-potting you will use less soil in the long run so it keeps costs down. Some people claim that small plants in large containers risks root rot because the lower soil can be overly moist. Well, if you have short/small plants they have short/small roots so the roots are not down deep enough to be in what, if over watering is done, could be soil that is overly moist and could cause root rot. Also because of the moisture retention in the lower areas of the pots as the upper soil dries out through plant usage/transpiration, and evaporation moisture will wick up and plants are less likely to become over dry. The lower moisture will not wick up faster than the upper moisture is lost, so again, there is no danger of root rot.

There has been times when I has small plants and I needed to be away for a few days or so and normally my plants would need to be watered. I would water my plants as per usual and let the pots drain, but then fill the drip trays with water. I use somewhat deep drip trays so that put about 2 1/2 inches of water into the trays and the bottom 2 1/2 inches of the soil. If the roots were that deep it would cause an over watering situation and possible root rot. But since the roots were not that deep in the pots the highly saturated soil and water in the drip trays was not a problem. By the time I would get back home most or all the water from the drip trays would be gone. Some naturally evaporated, but some, along with the excess moisture in the lower soil, wicked up to replace the moisture that was used or lost in the upper part of the pots, where the plant's roots were, and I came home to happy perky plants.

I think the reason the belief that you need to start plants in small containers, sometimes party cups or even smaller containers, is because of what people see many ornamental plants in when they are sold. But consider the reasons why ornamentals are sold in flats of tiny containers. Most are greenhouse grown. The more plants you can fit per greenhouse the more plants you can sell. That means increased profits. If you are growing say 100,000 plants to be sold to Lowes and Wal-Mart etc. the smaller the container you can grow them in means you use less soil. That saves more money. When the plants are shipped more plants will fit on a truck making the per-plant shipping cost less, and that equates to saved money and increased profits. Part of what home gardeners like is to watch their plants grow. So smaller plants are more desirable than larger plants, when dealing with ornamental plants anyway, so it is senseless to grow and ship large plants in large containers to be sold.

So the true reasons behind starting plants in small containers is one of profit and not that they produce better healthier plants.

Have you ever noticed the late spring leftover flats or small pots of plants? Have you noticed how they are stretched, how they are spindly, how they are most times droopy, even shortly after being watered, how they can look sickly? They have outgrown their containers, they are root-bound. The small containers are only good for a limited period of time and after that they are harmful to plants. The plant's roots need lebensraum, living space, enough area to grow deeper and wider, to expand their range until they eventually reach their maximum size/range.

Just as the entire planet is never to large for even the smallest of plants to grow in, you can never use pots that are to large. But you can very easily, and most people do, use pots that are to small for fully healthy plants that will produce to their maximum capability. Even when people start with small containers and up-can they seldom end up using a large enough pot for their final finishing size. Unless someone's grow area/setup is such where there is a pot size limiting factor that will keep them from being able to use larger pots there is no valid reason to use undersized pots.
Unfortunately, I am limited to a 7 gal max. They have to be moved, sometimes up and down a flight of stairs. I like to take advantage of full late Summer sun, but bring them in at night to prevent theft. I also do indoor projects during Winter months that require moving plants. This is part of the reason I transplant a lot, to take full advantage of non-UV block glass in South windows year-round. Generally, I'll throw a lady into flower after reaching about 4' ht in a 5 gal...my final transplant into said 5 gal is always done 2 weeks prior to flowering. I also start plants in the Spring for in-ground purposes, so 1 gals will be perfect for those. For indoor and indoor/outdoor container grows, looks like I'll have to start w/1 gal smart pots and move straight into 5 gals. Normally, I would transplant out of a 1 gal when plant reaches 12" ht. Can I stretch it a bit further using these smart pots?, would be nice to be able to move them around easily for as long as possible.

Again, thanks for the good read!.
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
if you want something better then just go with airpots. imo the plants have better root structure and not only but it grows faster imo.

heres a LINK.......


heres a video,,,,,,,,, [youtube]ojPbf3MkuC4[/youtube]
They're as expensive as hell too. If you use fabric and upcan, you risk tearing up the rootball as opposed to knocking an intact rootball out of a pot.

I bought a 18" X 105' roll of Rootbuilder by Rootmaker and made my own. They also sell seedling flats and injected molded pots and fabric pots that direct roots outward like bicycle spokes. Cheap and about as effective as it gets. Here's an example:
https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/479798-snake-oil-horticultural-myths-horticultural-9.html

You can also chemically prune, as I did here with copper hydroxide paint - https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html

Sunbiz1, might wanna use the search feature. This topic has been discussed a lot.

BT, I have found that small seedlings confined to a large pot from the get-go are stunted or at least don't have near the vigor starting off in a small pot and upcanning as needed. A container grown plant experiences totally different dynamics than one in the ground. I think it is an issue of air exchange at the root zone. Do you not use pure pine bark mulch as potting medium?

Regarding upcanning, the 4" rule by Dr. Carl Whitcomb applies. It has been field tested and is a fact that air pruned root tips will branch with secondary and tertiary lateral roots approximately 4" from the pruned tip and behind. Accordingly, I made my Rootbuilder pots to be about 10" in diameter bigger than the pots they came out of recently. Yes, I cheated about an inch regarding radii.

So, if you want to become an afficionado regarding root efficiency, start with a small root pruning pot like a 1 gallon and upcan to one that is about 8" bigger in diameter.

And yes, somebody needs to talk to potroast and move this back to Advanced. After reading some of the basic crap that lands in that forum, to move this one here is ridiculous.

UB
 
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