New Grower. What do I need/need to know?

0calli said:
Now you guys are really fucking his head up arguing no this way no but like this man you guys got boos written on what he should and shouldnt do al he wants is basic info lolo

do howevere you feel comfortable with buddy
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well i cant let him get it in the other guys head that pH and nutes are not important. my methods speak for themselves and the OP is welcome to check the grow journal in my sig as proof that i know what im doing.
 
themanwiththeplan said:
still not true.

he could use 6inch pots if he goes 12/12 from seed but theres no way he's growing regular beans or autos in a 6inch pot. it'll become rootbound in no time.

i hear that they are on a budget but if you can't afford good quality soil and a good 2 part nute system (veg nutes and bloom nutes) then you shouldn't be growing. I suggested Fox Farm because its n00b friendly and if you follow their feeding chart it becomes hard to mess it up.

Also im not a salesperson. im just a member of the forums. Im just suggesting quality nutes and soil that he should be able to avoid. 1.5 cu ft of ocean forest or light warrior only runs $17-20 and the nutes are about $18 each in the store. If you can't afford that to get started in growing then you probably shouldn't be growing. sure he could use dirt from outside but who's to say the plants will agree with it? it could have bugs, an incorrect pH, etc. at least if he buys light warrior or ocean forest he's gonna have quality soil that'll be bug free and pH'd to the correct level and it comes with nutes 2 aid the plant its first two weeks of life.

Sure he can skip on veg nutes and only feed when absolutely necessary but most growers grow for quality and quantity. Why not start him off on the right path from the start. I don't only feed when the plants look sad...I feed em when they look healthy. I wanna give em a boost and push them to their full potential. Theres nothing wrong with that.

I agree that ff nutes aren't the cheapest but there are other 2 part nute systems (veg and bloom nutes) that run considerably cheaper but like i said I suggested them as they are pretty n00b friendly.

I learned with ff products and while ive tried others even after all these years of growing i find myself back to the ff line.

the soil doesnt buffer itself. dolomite lime does and YOU have to put it in the soil.

Also if my tap is 7.0+ then it WILL cause a problem down the line as in soil pH should be 6.3-6.8. if i continuously pour 7.0+ tap water into my soil its going to slowly (over time) raise the pH of the soil. What would be ideal is if my tap was 6.5 then i wouldn't need pH down and everything would be dandy.

Suggesting he doesn't need a pH meter because "its rarely a problem in soil unless its the growers fault" is ridiculous and you're just setting him up for failure. I listened to someone who suggested the same as you when i first started so i didnt buy a pH meter and by the time i hit the end of my first grow i had to run down to the hydro store and get one because my pH was out of wack because my tap is too high.

Growers of soil and hydro should stay on top of their pH at all times. its a good portion of what the problems are in the plant problems area of the forum. its very important to know your pH because if you begin to shows signs of a deficiency or such its good to know if the pH is on point or too high/low as pH problems can disguise themselves as deficiencies so you could have the poor guy dumping a ton of N into the mix thinking its an N deficiency (or what not) when its really an incorrect pH level.
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LOL, that's all I can do is LOL.

You fail at reading comprehension too.
Nobody said you were a salesman, but you have fallen for a salesmans pitch.

You're confused and shouldn't be giving anyone advise.
 
themanwiththeplan said:
well i cant let him get it in the other guys head that pH and nutes are not important. my methods speak for themselves and the OP is welcome to check the grow journal in my sig as proof that i know what im doing.
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Nobody said nutes aren't important.

Again, FAIL at reading comprehension.
 
Rj41 said:
Nobody said nutes aren't important.

Again, FAIL at reading comprehension.
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you said they were not needed until mid-way during flowering. That MIGHT apply if you go 12/12 from seed but most growers need veg nutes. if you seen my grow journal you'd know there was NO WAY i would have vegged 5wks then went to 12/12 without feeding veg nutes. if you honestly believe that then you're crazy.


I didnt fall for any sales pitch. I came to online forums like the rest of you and asked what a n00b needs to get started and went with the most popular response: ff nutes and soil. It worked. It still works.

You also say monitoring pH is unimportant in soil but my experience also proved that wrong as well.

I don't see a lot wrong with what i suggested to this guy to get started. I said he would need (at the least) cfls, soil (good soil), nutes, and a pH meter. Thats as cheap as it gets. he can't go any cheaper than that without running into several problems.

EDIT: i could have said grab some dirt from outside. plant some bag seed. add some cfls and SOMETHING will grow in the pot...that would be the cheapest way to start but he wont have any kind of semi-decent results especially if he's new to growing. i gave him the cheapest way that would produce good results. we do want him to smoke his bud happily when it comes harvest time...not throw it in the trash because the brown brick weed he can get for $500/lb is better quality.

I said go with the ff line because its easy to learn with.

i dont fail @ reading comprehension...you fail at growing apparently as my method speaks for itself and has been proven for years by growers all over the world/internet forums.

I cant count the number of grows online right now that grow with ff soil and nutes (yes and feed during veg stage) with fantastic results.

my current grow has been nothing more than ff ocean forest and 3 part nute system. yes i too fed in veg and i believe im having some great results w/ it. Its not my first grow either. The kid has to cough up some $$$ to get good results no matter how cheap he's trying to do it. I started w/ cfls and ff soil/nutes so i know. its still very cheap considering the alternative of HID lights, more expensive/complicated nutes/soil, electric bills, etc.
 
themanwiththeplan said:
you said they were not needed until mid-way during flowering. That MIGHT apply if you go 12/12 from seed but most growers need veg nutes. if you seen my grow journal you'd know there was NO WAY i would have vegged 5wks then went to 12/12 without feeding veg nutes. if you honestly believe that then you're crazy.


I didnt fall for any sales pitch. I came to online forums like the rest of you and asked what a n00b needs to get started and went with the most popular response: ff nutes and soil. It worked. It still works.

You also say monitoring pH is unimportant in soil but my experience also proved that wrong as well.

I don't see a lot wrong with what i suggested to this guy to get started. I said he would need (at the least) cfls, soil (good soil), nutes, and a pH meter. Thats as cheap as it gets. he can't go any cheaper than that without running into several problems.

EDIT: i could have said grab some dirt from outside. plant some bag seed. add some cfls and SOMETHING will grow in the pot...that would be the cheapest way to start but he wont have any kind of semi-decent results especially if he's new to growing. i gave him the cheapest way that would produce good results. we do want him to smoke his bud happily when it comes harvest time...not throw it in the trash because the brown brick weed he can get for $500/lb is better quality.

I said go with the ff line because its easy to learn with.

i dont fail @ reading comprehension...you fail at growing apparently as my method speaks for itself and has been proven for years by growers all over the world/internet forums.

I cant count the number of grows online right now that grow with ff soil and nutes (yes and feed during veg stage) with fantastic results.

my current grow has been nothing more than ff ocean forest and 3 part nute system. yes i too fed in veg and i believe im having some great results w/ it. Its not my first grow either. The kid has to cough up some $$$ to get good results no matter how cheap he's trying to do it. I started w/ cfls and ff soil/nutes so i know. its still very cheap considering the alternative of HID lights, more expensive/complicated nutes/soil, electric bills, etc.
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Nope, you're wrong again.
If you don't want to, you don't have to fertilize at all until the plants tell you. New soil is just full of nutrients that should bring a small plant well into flowering. I do it all the time with Hyponex $5 a bag soil.

Nope, wrong again - I never knocked FF products, but I will now. FF soils are too hot for most new growers to use. There's hundreds of threads all over where new growers complain about nute burn from FF soils. That can be confirmed right here in riu. Their nutes are stupidly over priced. There's plenty of great nutes for 1/4 the price. Remember, A fool and their money are soon parted. And yes, you have fallen for a salesmans pitch if you're STILL paying stupid prices for FF nutes.

themanwiththeplan said:
my methods
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That's what seems to be the problem, your ego.
You're all butt-hurt because I (and others) disagree with you and your methods.
Sorry bro, but your shit's fugged up, and it seems like you over complicate everything.
You grow with a mixed jumble of hydro and soil info, and poor watering technique.
If it works FOR YOU, that's fine, but it's based mostly on opinion and TERRIBLE advise to pass along to a new grower, especially unnecessarily getting them all worried over soil ph.
 
Rj41 said:
Nope, you're wrong again.
If you don't want to, you don't have to fertilize at all until the plants tell you. New soil is just full of nutrients that should bring a small plant well into flowering. I do it all the time with Hyponex $5 a bag soil.

Nope, wrong again - I never knocked FF products, but I will now. FF soils are too hot for most new growers to use. There's hundreds of threads all over where new growers complain about nute burn from FF soils. That can be confirmed right here in riu. Their nutes are stupidly over priced. There's plenty of great nutes for 1/4 the price. Remember, A fool and their money are soon parted. And yes, you have fallen for a salesmans pitch if you're STILL paying stupid prices for FF nutes.

That's what seems to be the problem, your ego.
You're all butt-hurt because I (and others) disagree with you and your methods.
Sorry bro, but your shit's fugged up, and it seems like you over complicate everything.
You grow with a mixed jumble of hydro and soil info, and poor watering technique.
If it works FOR YOU, that's fine, but it's based mostly on opinion and TERRIBLE advise to pass along to a new grower, especially unnecessarily getting them all worried over soil ph.
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there is not a facepalm icon in existence that could replicate how i feel right now.

yes ocean forest CAN run hot but usually it matters on the strain as well. all the strains in my journal went from the paper towel to the dirt directly. All i did to my ocean forest was add in perlite for better drainage as sometimes ocean forest can clump a little easier than i'd like it to. I didnt burn one plant.

remember that strawberry cough is a nute sensitive plant and even it didnt give me any problems.

also if you're growing for quality AND yield if you wait for the plant to tell you it needs nutes you've waiting too long.

I dont consider FF nutes overpriced. in fact its close in price to many of todays leading nutes. If you go down to the hydro store theres not too many nutes priced cheaper than ff. Sure they are some that go for 5-7 less per quart but overall its pretty consistent.

All he would need is grow big and tiger bloom at the very least. thats $30-40 mattering where you go and with the size plants he's talking about growing it would last him for well over 1 year. $30-40 a year on nutes is NOT too expensive imo as i burn through 1 qt in a very short amount of time in comparison but im also running 10 plants 6 of which are in 5 gal pots and 4 are in 3 gal pots so its to be expected in comparison to tiny pots.

If i grow with such poor methods/techniques why are my plants nearly as tall as i am and filling out rather beautifully? my strawberry cough has 8 tops and appears to be a huge producer regardless of what the reviews say about it being a low yielding strain.

if my methods are unnecessary and "over complicate" things then i guess ill keep doing "unnecessary" things for big yields of primo quality but you shouldn't be misguiding this guy. telling him he doesnt need to monitor pH is ridiculous and any serious grower would agree with me.

im not saying he has to get fox farm. im just saying he needs veg AND bloom nutes for ideal quality/quantity bud. sure you can use an all purpose fert but its not gonna produce the same results. its just not.


im supposedly so wrong but i dont see any links to a grow journal of yours to prove what you're saying. anyone on this forum can verify what im saying with a simple click. I also have pics and vids of prior grows i did also with fabulous results. oh and yes i used veg nutes in every grow too.
 
Oh and i don't have an ego...this is the internet. Besides i have no one to impress in real life as no one is aware that i grow anyway but come harvest time all my friends and smoking buddies like my gear. (of course i dont tell them its something i grew) but it damn sure feels good to hear, "hey man where'd you get this stuff? its bomb". just hearing that lets me know im doing it right.

if you want any old buds listen to rj41. if you want some decent buds of good quality then do as the experts do (which is what i do...follow the advice of the experts as im far from one myself but im also no 1st timer)...
 
To the original Post. Go to barnes and noble and buy a book. there are plenty. If you feel wierd buy one through amazon. Most (note the emphasis on most as I don't want to get harassed) books that get published are backed with research and most of the writers really know what your talking about. But coming on a public thread asking what you need is impossible. As one person says you don't need nutes untill flower, the other says another. The real truth is no one know what you need as everyones grow is different. You just get a well rounded idea of what to do and start growing/learning. Im not saying anyone's advice here is incorrect but I have seen TONS of so called facts about growing marijuana that are just absurd. It's a fucking plant.

And just out of personal experience I usually start to notice my plants having a nitrogen def around week3 and so do most if not all of the growers I know, which means you would want nutrients during veg. BUt then again if you just grow quick plants a few weeks old then switch to flower you prolly wont but it depends on your starting soil. I personally like to have BUSHES so i give mine nutrients during veg. But every grow is different find what works for you.

BTW don't be lazy do some research.

Peace
 
manwiththeplan: Ego generated responses. Apples to oranges comparisons. Poor reading comprehension. Contradiction after contradiction. Insisting that your methods and beliefs are absolute. Yup, you're definitely an american.
 
SirLancelot said:
To the original Post. Go to barnes and noble and buy a book. there are plenty. If you feel wierd buy one through amazon. Most (note the emphasis on most as I don't want to get harassed) books that get published are backed with research and most of the writers really know what your talking about. But coming on a public thread asking what you need is impossible. As one person says you don't need nutes untill flower, the other says another. The real truth is no one know what you need as everyones grow is different. You just get a well rounded idea of what to do and start growing/learning. Im not saying anyone's advice here is incorrect but I have seen TONS of so called facts about growing marijuana that are just absurd. It's a fucking plant.

And just out of personal experience I usually start to notice my plants having a nitrogen def around week3 and so do most if not all of the growers I know, which means you would want nutrients during veg. BUt then again if you just grow quick plants a few weeks old then switch to flower you prolly wont but it depends on your starting soil. I personally like to have BUSHES so i give mine nutrients during veg. But every grow is different find what works for you.

BTW don't be lazy do some research.

Peace
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i agree everyone's grow is different. if you go 12/12 from the jump you may not need them until flower.

thanks for agreeing though that most growers do need veg nutes during veg otherwise the plant will become deficient then problems ensue.

Rj41 said:
manwiththeplan: Ego generated responses. Apples to oranges comparisons. Poor reading comprehension. Contradiction after contradiction. Insisting that your methods and beliefs are absolute. Yup, you're definitely an american.
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um now i have someone who came in and agreed with me. So now what? im still an idiot i suppose. -_-

my methods and beliefs are not absolute but id bet you a pretty penny that more growers (professional or otherwise) use veg nutes during veg than those who dont and for good reason.

I think you know you're incorrect on the subject but have no ammo left to fire so now you're gonna attack my character as a last ditch attempt to get the last word in.

After this post im done addressing you on this subject. so take the last word if you wish.


My final points are:
veg nutes are important (even 12/12 from clone/seed you'll need N in flower at some point)

pH is an issue in soil AND hydro. Everyone should own a meter and monitor their pH throughout the grow and at first signs of deficiencies to confirm they are indeed deficiencies or pH problems masking themselves as deficiencies.

those are facts not opinions.

now go ahead and carry on screwing with op's head and filling it with lies.


OP if you want help or want proof just click my journal. if you like how they look PM me and ill help you best i can.
 
My responce would depend on how much money you have to start with. If you have cash to burn then I'd say get yourself some Advanced Nutrients Grow-Micro-Bloom, Connoisseur, Big Bud, Overdrive, Hammerhead, Voodoo Juice, b-52, a bale of promix or sunshine mix #4, a bag of perlite, a 600w HPS, a 4x8' tent that can fit a 4'x8' hydro table, a 4 x 8' hydrotable, blower, carbon filter, oscillating fan and call it a day.
 
themanwiththeplan said:
i agree everyone's grow is different. if you go 12/12 from the jump you may not need them until flower.

thanks for agreeing though that most growers do need veg nutes during veg otherwise the plant will become deficient then problems ensue. Never once did I say fertilizing during the veg cycle was unnecessary for everyone. Your reading comprehension has failed you again.



um now i have someone who came in and agreed with me. So now what? im still an idiot i suppose. -_- Umm, idiot? No. Egotistical and a bit confused? Yes.

my methods and beliefs are not absolute but id bet you a pretty penny that more growers (professional or otherwise) use veg nutes during veg than those who dont and for good reason.
I haven't disagreed about nutes - for some soil growers it is a necessity but not everybody. If your reading comprehension was better you'd have understood that all along.

I think you know you're incorrect on the subject but have no ammo left to fire so now you're gonna attack my character as a last ditch attempt to get the last word in.
Nah bro, wrong again.

 After this post im done addressing you on this subject. so take the last word if you wish.


My final points are:
veg nutes are important (even 12/12 from clone/seed you'll need N in flower at some point)

pH is an issue in soil AND hydro. Everyone should own a meter and monitor their pH throughout the grow and at first signs of deficiencies to confirm they are indeed deficiencies or pH problems masking themselves as deficiencies. hydro issue yes. soil issue no.

those are facts not opinions. Your 'facts' about PH are incorrect. That is just your opinion.

now go ahead and carry on screwing with op's head and filling it with lies.
Classic transference behavior.


OP if you want help or want proof just click my journal. if you like how they look PM me and ill help you best i can.
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See MY signature, lol.
 
everyone has their own thing going on. I am a total noob when it comes to this but what has worked for me so far (with lighting) is CFls. they are cheap and effective.
you can buy them at home depot but the best place I found is Ace HArdware. they carry 6500k 23 watt cfl bulbs. (home depot the highest they carry is 5000k)

thats the best I got, maybe it will help someone

also you need like 100-150watt per plant. literally like 1-2 inches above the plant and also a fan on them to help keep them cool and to grow strong stems.
 
ML75 said:
everyone has their own thing going on. I am a total noob when it comes to this but what has worked for me so far (with lighting) is CFls. they are cheap and effective.
you can buy them at home depot but the best place I found is Ace HArdware. they carry 6500k 23 watt cfl bulbs. (home depot the highest they carry is 5000k)

thats the best I got, maybe it will help someone

also you need like 100-150watt per plant. literally like 1-2 inches above the plant and also a fan on them to help keep them cool and to grow strong stems.
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oh thanks for reminding me.

yeah op if you decide to use cfls then you want 6500 Kelvin cfls for veg (it lets off a blue/white color) and 2700K cfls for flower (a reddish/orange color). its best to use both for both stage though.
 
just to chime in on the "blue light" for veg and "red light" for flower. I want to note that I did two grows all the way through with one light. one with a 400w MH and another with a 400w hps. I have read multiple places that the red light promotes flowering. This could be true I don't know Im not a scientist, but what I do know is that my nugs were pretty much the same after flowering with an MH compared to an HPS. THey weren't more "airy" or anything like that still plump dense nugs. but personally I just use an hps for flower and t5's for veg.

Remember though as dude above said it's best to use both, because the more lumens the better you can't go wrong adding more light.
 
SirLancelot said:
just to chime in on the "blue light" for veg and "red light" for flower. I want to note that I did two grows all the way through with one light. one with a 400w MH and another with a 400w hps. I have read multiple places that the red light promotes flowering. This could be true I don't know Im not a scientist, but what I do know is that my nugs were pretty much the same after flowering with an MH compared to an HPS. THey weren't more "airy" or anything like that still plump dense nugs. but personally I just use an hps for flower and t5's for veg.

Remember though as dude above said it's best to use both, because the more lumens the better you can't go wrong adding more light.
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right again. mh, hps, 6500K, 2700K will all grow a crop of good quality from beginning to end. Ive done just the same (whole grows with mh, and whole grows with hps) and both came out good.

If you're just starting out you can get away with just mh, just hps, just 6500K or just 2700K no problem.
 
btw. now i too use t5's for veg and hps for flowering. it works out well. i don't suggest getting t5's for a whole grow all the way through if youre a beginner. some growers here use t5's the whole way through with success but its not for beginners as it takes lots of plant training to get dense nugs as the t5's dont penetrate deep into the canopy like an hid bulb would.

in future if you have the means OP a t5 would be great for veg, cloning, or alternatively as supplementary lighting in your grow room as they are ok to be positioned anyway you'd like.
 
You're going to run into heat issues with ANY hid light.
Plus they're expensive to purchase and operate.
Will you have a better yield using hid's? Yes.
Are hid's necessary? No.
Should hids be used by a beginner? In my opinion, no.

If a person has the space, 4 foot T-12 flouros (6500K) work fine for vegging.
$10 at home depot.
T-12's will also work for flowering, but adding some 23w cfl's for additional side lighting is useful.
What's nice with the T-12s is that a new grower (or any grower) can literally let the plants grow into the lights with little to no stress to the plant.

The key for new growers to have a successful first couple of grows is to keep it simple.
Eliminate all the unnecessary, over-kill things, and MOST of the problems that so many new growers experience are eliminated.
 
I don't think having an hid over cfls is that complicated you dont have to be an expert just plug it in. But as stated there expensive if you grow on a budget. But I personally like to spoil my plants and not short them on anything. But to me it's worth the extra $ for that extra you get in buds.
 
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