Prove to you There's a God?

olylifter420

Well-Known Member
Having faith so strong even reality can't shake it.
Reality differs from person to person, making a statement such as that does not qualify. If i am mistaken, please post a definition that is accepted world wide that demonstrates your point.

figuring life out for yourself requires critical thought, discipline, reflection.
WHy is it that i have been able to "figure out life" for myself with what i have learned from the teachings of God? I am a very accepted individual in society and i am a very good contributor to society, yet i believe in God, why is that so? My faith in God is what has gotten me through some really tough times in life. It got me through the death of my son(you all can say what you want, but please remember, my son is dead, so dont be dicks)!!!!!

What question has religion answered?
i cannot speak for anyone else, but i do not seek religion for answers. My faith has nothing to do with religion as i believe that religion, structured that is, such as those massive church buildings you see and the assholes that ask you for half of your paycheck per month have nothing to do with what God set out to do. They have abused the system and will continue to do so till the end of time. I look to God for answers when i am in a hard spot, i ask questions... no i do not expect Him to answer them in a voice, but i understand that He has given me the ability to figure things out once i calm down and start to ask questions about the situation. Say what you want, but it has worked for me because i do Believe.
 

olylifter420

Well-Known Member
its time for christians to get radical. death on athiest.
I do not know if you are being serious, but why would you say such a thing? It makes no sense to make such a statement when the few believers(heph and myself) on here have been trying to shed a new light on these atheists' views on believers.
 

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
You make a good point in that, not all people's idea of god is ridiculous. Some people's idea's are quite interesting. Pantheism and deism are two ideas I have relatively little problem with. But a great deal of the world believes in a creator God who takes personal interest in peoples lives and answers prayers. Throw in salvation and damnation, and it makes me laugh quite often, even if only out of exasperation.
...that's pretty accurate right there. Some of those fundamentalist types, man, I tell you :spew:

...all in all, my thought goes to "how to help that situation". I mean, I get the 'who is the observer' question. But as that 'vision' approaches people they tend to look like those anti harry potter types. I think it's an ignorance hangover they have, something like that :)
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
I wonder, do you think it is ok for religion to evolve along the side of science?

I don't see how something set in stone (literally) can evolve or progress with time or culture. If it changes, how can it truly be the inspired word of God, much less the word of God himself?

Reality differs from person to person.
No, reality remains reality, our individual perception and interpretation of reality is what changes.

Why is it that i have been able to "figure out life" for myself with what i have learned from the teachings of God?
What have you figured out as a direct result of your belief in God? 'life' is pretty vague.

I'm sorry to hear about your son, dude.



i cannot speak for anyone else, but i do not seek religion for answers. My faith has nothing to do with religion as i believe that religion, structured that is, such as those massive church buildings you see and the assholes that ask you for half of your paycheck per month have nothing to do with what God set out to do. They have abused the system and will continue to do so till the end of time. I look to God for answers when i am in a hard spot, i ask questions... no i do not expect Him to answer them in a voice, but i understand that He has given me the ability to figure things out once i calm down and start to ask questions about the situation. Say what you want, but it has worked for me because i do Believe.
Serial killing works wonders for some people too bro. It takes more than that for the rest of us though.
 

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
I don't see how something set in stone (literally) can evolve or progress with time or culture. If it changes, how can it truly be the inspired word of God, much less the word of God himself?
...the things which are set in stone are completely fluid, that's the living word of belief. They will always be, and I think that is what is meant by 'in stone' - or, at the foundation of. Let's take happiness as an example. 100,000,000 years from now, happiness will be the same. It will still be as an aspect of an immutable god.
 

olylifter420

Well-Known Member
I don't see how something set in stone (literally) can evolve or progress with time or culture
you believe in evolution so to say that something that has been set in stone that cannot change would contradict your belief. The wheel was set in stone, so were all of our tools and so on, they do evolve with time and so would the word the God. The changes occur to accommodate the needs of the people and with time the meaning of things change as well. Just imagine if we did change anything and stuck to our old draconian ways of the past. Everyone would kill everyone and only the strong would survive. I think it changes in order to cause change universally.

our individual perception and interpretation of reality is what changes.
Ok, so then since you are an atheist and do not believe in God that makes your interpretation and perception of reality superior to mine in the sense that i would not have a proper interpretation of this "universal reality"?

I'm sorry to hear about your son, dude.
Thanks man, it was a really tough time in my life. I do not wish that on no one, what i went through. Nights filled with heavy drinking and on top of that my ex wife left me a month later, i caught her cheating, yeah, cheating... lol...


Serial killing works wonders for some people too bro. It takes more than that for the rest of us though.
I dont get it, there are also serial killer atheists and death squads just as there is those religious martyrs.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
...the things which are set in stone are completely fluid, that's the living word of belief. They will always be, and I think that is what is meant by 'in stone' - or, at the foundation of. Let's take happiness as an example. 100,000,000 years from now, happiness will be the same. It will still be as an aspect of an immutable god.
you believe in evolution so to say that something that has been set in stone that cannot change would contradict your belief. The wheel was set in stone, so were all of our tools and so on, they do evolve with time and so would the word the God. The changes occur to accommodate the needs of the people and with time the meaning of things change as well. Just imagine if we did change anything and stuck to our old draconian ways of the past. Everyone would kill everyone and only the strong would survive. I think it changes in order to cause change universally.
How could what God says is right be something different today than when it was written? Wouldn't that make God wrong? How could God be wrong?

Ok, so then since you are an atheist and do not believe in God that makes your interpretation and perception of reality superior to mine in the sense that i would not have a proper interpretation of this "universal reality"?
No, all it means is that reality is objective, our interpretation of reality is subjective. I might think its cold while you don't, fact is it remains 60F whether I'm cold or not.

I dont get it, there are also serial killer atheists and death squads just as there is those religious martyrs.
How I interpreted what you said earlier was something along the lines of 'it works for me', so I used the example of serial killing. Killing people gives some people a great sense of satisfaction or sexual gratification or whatever, it 'works for them', so I pointed out that simply 'working' isn't enough to warrant belief. The general consensus among most atheists is that religion is dangerous, and we can't even prove its authenticity.
 

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
How could what God says is right be something different today than when it was written? Wouldn't that make God wrong? How could God be wrong?
...you misinterpret my post. There are modes of being. One of them is happiness - it is part of a whole. When I say 'fluid' I mean it doesn't change, but is continually relevant - new.
 

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
Reality differs from person to person, making a statement such as that does not qualify. If i am mistaken, please post a definition that is accepted world wide that demonstrates your point.
I agree that parts of reality are subjective, or at least how we interpret events can be subjective.

There are things in the gospels that require believers to suspend their better judgement about reality. For example, god stopping the movement of the sun, then reversing the movement of the sun, the parting of the red sea, the arc, and dozens if not hundreds of other events that are seemingly impossible. We know the world doesn't work the way it's described in the bible, so believing it requires people to "hang up their thinking caps", and accept things that are clearly impossible.

That kind of faith is harmful.



WHy is it that i have been able to "figure out life" for myself with what i have learned from the teachings of God? I am a very accepted individual in society and i am a very good contributor to society, yet i believe in God, why is that so? My faith in God is what has gotten me through some really tough times in life. It got me through the death of my son(you all can say what you want, but please remember, my son is dead, so dont be dicks)!!!!!
Sorry to hear about your son, that's something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. It's great that your faith in god, and Christ got you through those hard times, religion has always been based in the hearts of the downtrodden but just because something is comforting doesn't make it true. If you were born in the Middle east, it would be Allah and Muhammad that got you through the death of your son, or maybe it would have been Shiva is you lived in India.... the mechanism of religion can be useful, certain messages and practices are the problems.

It reminds me of a quote from Proff. Stephen Weinberg;


“Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”

I think religion helped you, but you could have gotten that help elsewhere; and it wouldn't come at the cost of believing impossible things.



i cannot speak for anyone else, but i do not seek religion for answers. My faith has nothing to do with religion as i believe that religion, structured that is, such as those massive church buildings you see and the assholes that ask you for half of your paycheck per month have nothing to do with what God set out to do. They have abused the system and will continue to do so till the end of time. I look to God for answers when i am in a hard spot, i ask questions... no i do not expect Him to answer them in a voice, but i understand that He has given me the ability to figure things out once i calm down and start to ask questions about the situation. Say what you want, but it has worked for me because i do Believe.
That calming down and asking yourself questions about your situation is called 'critical thinking'. If you ask god, but he doesn't answer and you still figure it out; you shouldn't be thanking god, he didn't do anything - you did. So give yourself a pat on the back. :D



...the things which are set in stone are completely fluid, that's the living word of belief. They will always be, and I think that is what is meant by 'in stone' - or, at the foundation of. Let's take happiness as an example. 100,000,000 years from now, happiness will be the same. It will still be as an aspect of an immutable god.
I disagree, there is no need to invoke any 'god' to describe happiness. Happiness 10,000 years ago was probably not dying after killing an animal to eat. A biological reward system designed to keep us trying to survive. Eat, sleep, fuck, take one good shit per day, that was happiness.

Happiness now is much less about survival, and more about appeasing our wants and desires....
 

olylifter420

Well-Known Member
That kind of faith is harmful.
My faith is unlike the one you mention and describe and i know you understand that. Acceptance of several theories and laws is allowable, while a single person who minds their own business cannot practice their faith without being called insane. That is what i see a lot of among us here, that we all hold some beliefs that have affected others in our present, past or unseen future. Science and faith or religion cannot be used in the same discussion if you ask me. Everyone has a different understanding of the material at hand thus varying opinions will form due to our historical past. Everyone knows that there has been martyrs for both sides of the coin and to say nay towards the side of science is preposterous.. WE all know science has killed in the name of science and religious martyrs have killed in the name of their God.

Sorry to hear about your son,
Thank you for the kind words.

the mechanism of religion can be useful, certain messages and practices are the problems.
yes, i to agree that certain forms of religious practices can and are dangerous to other people... but to associate everyone who believes in God with such martyrs is, well, preposterous.

I think religion helped you, but you could have gotten that help elsewhere; and it wouldn't come at the cost of believing impossible things
people cope differently to different situations. the law of individual differences comes to mind. I think my faith is what got me through, not my religion. I did not seek out religious individuals for advice. Again, why is it impossible? The universe is so gigantic, impossible is possible, we just dont know yet.

That calming down and asking yourself questions about your situation is called 'critical thinking'. If you ask god, but he doesn't answer and you still figure it out; you shouldn't be thanking god, he didn't do anything - you did. So give yourself a pat on the back.
i did, but without God, i would have not been able to. Again, my faith and the teachings i have learned is what got me through these tough times.. through my faith, God gives me the power to understand and think critically stabilize the situation.


the only difference between us is faith. Faith keeps me going when all odds seem against me. Faith is what keeps me strong in times of a weakened mind. Faith is what gives me hope that one day, we will all be equal and have no discrimination against each other just cause of our beliefs.
 

olylifter420

Well-Known Member
How could what God says is right be something different today than when it was written?
There are many things that have changed through time. Language and letters were very different from what we are used to today.

I might think its cold while you don't, fact is it remains 60F whether I'm cold or not.
again, individual differences comes to mind. You are forgetting about demographic and geographic settings. These two aforementioned settings are highly influential on what and how a person is raised or how a society evolves with time.

The general consensus among most atheists is that religion is dangerous, and we can't even prove its authenticity.
how do you prove authenticity? An expert? Literature? Scientific method?
 

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
people cope differently to different situations. the law of individual differences comes to mind. I think my faith is what got me through, not my religion. I did not seek out religious individuals for advice. Again, why is it impossible? The universe is so gigantic, impossible is possible, we just dont know yet.
Quantum theory says that given enough time, anything is possible.

However, quantum theory isn't something we base our macro lives on, because it wouldn't make sense. No one stands on the side of the road, not at a bus stop waiting for the bus because it "could" stop there, because it's "possible". No one waits patiently in their kitchen holding an empty glass hoping that a drink will appear in it, because it's "possible".

That being said, I don't share your sense of "it could happen because the universe is big"....



We may not know 100% sure that god didn't stop the sun and move it around in the sky, but we've got a pretty freakin' good idea that's just not possible, ever. There's no justification to believe it, we've been watching the sun for a long time and it's not exactly an erratic object. Pretty damn predictable in fact.

There are many things that have changed through time. Language and letters were very different from what we are used to today.
Language never claimed to be the perfect, unchanging, rules of God. It's expected for language to change over time, but how can the unwavering, perfect word of god "evolve"? The need or want to change something perfect, explicitly negates its perfection. Unless by evolve you mean change from the perfect word of god into the word of man that makes way more sense. That I'd be down with.....
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
There are many things that have changed through time. Language and letters were very different from what we are used to today.
Oly, you've gotta see how that just isn't the same dude. God and his followers attribute omnipotence to his list of character traits, if he's wrong about something, that means he's not omnipotent, if he's not omnipotent, why worship him as a god? (especially considering all the harm the belief causes)

how do you prove authenticity? An expert? Literature? Scientific method?
Science
 

olylifter420

Well-Known Member
I don't share your sense of "it could happen because the universe is big"....
you are free to believe whatever you want bro, I got no problem with that because i do not rely on you for anything. People are free to do as they wish...

Unless by evolve you mean change from the perfect word of god into the word of man that makes way more sense. That I'd be down with.....
I dont know if you are being serious, so i will wait on my response.
 

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
you are free to believe whatever you want bro, I got no problem with that because i do not rely on you for anything. People are free to do as they wish...



I dont know if you are being serious, so i will wait on my response.
I was actually being serious. lol

If that's how you define "evolve" when it comes to religion, I'm down.

Cut out all the impossible shit in the bible, all the resurrections and virgin births, denials of physics, all the bigotry towards women and gays, drop the old testament and revelations and I think it'd be a somewhat worthwhile book to live by.

Now, if the bits of the bible that remain after all the "B.S. removal" happen to be the only parts you practice, I'll give you a big 'Amen' brother...
 

olylifter420

Well-Known Member
COol. I respect that bro. Thanks

I forgot to post my response, lol!

Yes, that is what i meant by evolve. I would really like that to happen, but i do not think that would happen anytime soon...

I was actually being serious. lol

If that's how you define "evolve" when it comes to religion, I'm down.

Cut out all the impossible shit in the bible, all the resurrections and virgin births, denials of physics, all the bigotry towards women and gays, drop the old testament and revelations and I think it'd be a somewhat worthwhile book to live by.

Now, if the bits of the bible that remain after all the "B.S. removal" happen to be the only parts you practice, I'll give you a big 'Amen' brother...
 

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
Ghandi said it well;

“I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.”

You don't have to actually be a Christian to draw out, and use the good and moral parts of the bible.
 
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