20,000 Watt Medical Grow Op Construction
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collective gardener
Well-Known Member
Thanks Wolv. SO MANY people don't get this. It's NOT the 12 hrs of light that blooms plants...it's the 12 hrs of DARK. Like most of you, I have had close calls with interupting the light schedule. I have had to move hundreds of plants on a few hrs notice. Giant moving trucks...2 of them...are the ticket. One is veg and one bloom. I use battery powered lanterns in the veg truck to keep them veging. The bloom truck is just dark all the time. I have left plants in the dark for several days with no ill effects.
When I have a close call....like leaving bloom room door open...I put the plants into darkness for 24 hrs right away. I feel that this stimulates the flower hormones. My experience has been that one bad night can be recovered from every time. I open the door to my bloom room all the time. A minute or 2 of ambiant light will not throw the plants back into veg. It takes a couple short nights to revert the plant to veg. BUT, once it goes back to veg, you may as well toss it. Getting back to bloom will take weeks and the original flowers may not "re-start".
C.Indica
Well-Known Member
Oh.. did some reading, turns out my buddy didn't do as much homework as I thought he did..
Shouldn't have listened to him, but it's nice that I never tried it.
Found this too,
Someguy15
Well-Known Member
Are you referring to Final phase by AN or a different product? I'm thinking it must be different because final phase looks like a flush product to me. Thanks for all the insights, always readin the chatter in this forum, good shit guys.
Hey CG, i was just wondering what you meant by 2 parts flora blend, .2 floralicious, .5 kool bloom? is that the amount used per gallon? sorry for buggin ya.
Beansly
RIU Bulldog
If I'm not mistaken this is it --->http://www.amazon.com/Yellow-Bottles-Final-Bloom-liter/dp/B004HE9L9Q
But it's by a nute company called 'Yellow Bottle'
collective gardener
Well-Known Member
It's just like it reads. I'm not a fan of "tsp/gal" measurements. I just want to know the proportions of each nute, then I can use my TDS meter to get the desired strength. If I used the quantities on the AN bottles, my nute strength would be like 2500ppm...2 and a half times what I like to use.
Each number is a "part". You can use tsps. ml, cups, whatever...Just use the same unit of measurement on each nute. As a starting point, I would call 10ml a "part", and go with about 2 gallons of water . That means 10ml of Flora Nova, 20ml of Flora Blend, etc...That should put you around 1000ppm. BUT, you'll just have to mix up a batch to see the right amount per gallon.
collective gardener
Well-Known Member
That's the stuff. California is about to pull it off the shelves. That's how I know it works. Anything that works California won't sell. Same with Floromite (sp?). I need someone in another state to send me some Floromite. I think it's going to be the only way to achieve total eradication so that I can switch to predators and get off spray alltogether. Everytime I think I have these fuckers licked, they come back with renewed purpose. I've used Floromite in the past with great results. The stuff provides contact kill for 30 days. If you spray 1 week into bloom, before any flowers are present, the plants are mite-proof till week 6. In the past it's taken only 3 applications on 3 succesive perpetual crops to totally eradicate all mites. I know it's bad shit, but the only way I'm going to get off all pesticides is to start fresh. Basically, I need to get real dirty to get clean.
Beansly
RIU Bulldog
I read some interesting stuff about some organic sources of tricontanol, the active ingredient in Final Bloom, in alfalfa pellets and alfalfa meal. Check this read. Oh, and I found out why Final Boost is so expensive; because one kilo of pure Triacontanol cost 500,000 euro. (http://www.carbonkick.fi/growingsystem/pressrelease_eng.doc)
http://treatingyourself.com/vbulletin/archive/index.php?t-3152.html
Below are some information regarding the major benefits of using Alfafa Meal (contains triacontanol) to your plants. (in commercial cultivation, alfafa is said to have increase growth times and foliage weight for roses)
Take from Cannabisworld - http://www.cannabisworld.org/vbportal/forums/showthread.php?threadid=45123
Triacontanol by Ionicbigbud and Duque_de_Rivas
Duque_de_Rivas:
I wanted to let everyone know about a regimen that has really been working for me in hydro. Most of these ideas have come from this thread, which I would be remiss not to mention: http://www.cannabisworld.org/ubb/Fo...TML/005220.html
For my tea and 30 babes, I make up a batch 24 hrs prior to using: one half cup alfalfa pellets tied in an old sock / gallon of water. Alfalfa pellets go for about $10 for a 50 lb. bag and are used as horse feed. A 50 lb. bag is more than enough for you and everyone else you know.
I only make a gallon at a time because it goes bad in about 3 - 4 days after mixing (smells horrible!!!).
Then, either just before the lights come on or go off, I will drench anything that has roots or is over a week old 1x / day. I quit using this spray one week before I switch to 12/12 as the hormone (triacontonol) will keep them in veg longer, making you lose valuable time and contributing to overgrowth; this means I only use it 2 - 4 times, but it is worth it!
Anyway, I wanted to include this in a link in my sig, so I thought I'd start this thread.
Everyone's comments are more than welcome, as the alfalfa issue has come a long way since it was first discussed.
Happy growing!
IonicBigBud:
I have always entertained the idea of the use of Alfalfa meal (3-1-2) in my soil or to make a tea out of so I took the plunge and man it makes a difference. If you are unsure of this chemical do a google search on the subject and you will be sold hands down.
There are 46 posts on the subject from Doctors of horticulture from major universities and the one that sold me was where it stated that super thrive contained this chemical and the use of it dates back to the early 1900's. Corn farmers use this to increase crop production. No wonder my plants grew so well back in Indiana corn fields where I learned to grow!!!
If any of you want to try this organic wonder and have problems finding it in your area PM me. Not everyone has a feed store in their area. and 50lb bag goes a long way so let me know and we will work something out. Happy growing!!!! Peace!!!
Here's one more link worth checking out: http://www.cannabisworld.org/vbportal/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7395
More vital info & links on Alfafa Meal:
Triacontanol Links:
http://www.rdrop.com/~paul/alfalfa.html
You might want to try using alfalfa tea on your roses. Alfalfa releases triacontanol, an alcohol ester compound that acts as a growth stimulant. The alfalfa is not a food in the sense that nitrogen is, but it makes the uptake of nutrients more efficient. You'll have a dramatic increase in both growth, bloom, and overall vigour of the plant.
2 cups Alfalfa pellets or meal.
2.5 gal. water.
steep for 2-3 days covered.
Apply about a half gallon on your minis and a full gallon on your larger bushes about every 6-8 weeks. This is something that can be done in the garden at any time of the year without the usual concern of stimulating growth at inappropriate times, as you would with fertilizers.
http://www.minerva.at/search97cgi/s..._21_130417.html
The effects of a long chain aliphatic alcohol 1-triacontanol (TRIA) on the photosynthesis and membrane properties of mesophyll protoplasts and chloroplasts isolated from pea leaves were studied. In vitro treatments of isolated protoplasts caused a large enhancement (166 percent) of the CO2-fixation rate after 60 min of TRIA (10 ^-6 M) application as compared to the control. An enhanced photosynthetic response was observed in vitro treated leaf pieces. Application of octacosanol (OCTA) under the same experimental conditions did not result in any stimulating effects. In vivo treatments of pea seedlings also resulted in a significant increase of the net CO2 uptake to 109% and 119% in 10^-8 M and 10 ^-6 M TRIA-treated plants respectively.
http://www.healthy.net/library/jour...1no1/sativa.htm
Medicago sativa (alfalfa) also contains a plant growth stimulating substance identified as Triacontanol. When applied to crops it increases the growth and yield of several species. Applying 117kg of Alfalfa to a hectare of tomatoes increases yields by 10 metric tons per hectare.
http://www.bmi.net/roseguy/fbamend.html
Alfalfa - While at first glance it would appear that nitrogen is the big benefit from alfalfa (Meal: 5-1-2; Pellets: 14-4-
, with a good dose of iron and trace elements, the real benefit comes from a fatty acid alcohol called triacontanol which occurs naturally in the waxy surface of the plant’s leaves. Triacontanol is a root stimulant which, when used in small quantities, can increase yields in garden plots by 30 to 60%. It can be applied to roses straight out of the bag or box, or applied in an "alfalfa tea."
For direct application, sprinkle up to a cup of pellets, a half cup for miniatures, around each bush and water. The pellets then swell up and break apart. Then scratch the alfalfa into the soil or cover with mulch. If you leave the alfalfa on the surface, it will mold, and, when it dries, it will turn hard and crusty…work it in. Don’t use more than a cup, or its effectiveness will drop.
For alfalfa tea, add 10 to 12 cups of alfalfa pellets to a 32 gallon garbage can, add water, stir and steep for 2 or 3 hours to a couple of days. You can add 4 to 6 cups of Epsom salts and 8 ounces of fish fertilizer as a "fortifier", if you wish. Apply a gallon per bush, 1/3 gallon per miniature. Stir often to keep it mixed. You can pour the slurry on the bottom of the garbage can onto some of the roses, or add it to your vegetable garden.
50 lb bags can be purchased at farm & feed stores. Use once or twice a year.
http://www.vioryl.gr/products/agroactive_list.html
Check out “Gigamix” in their listing:
GIGAMIX EMULSION FOLIAR PRODUCT (11-1-1)+trace elements
http://treatingyourself.com/vbulletin/archive/index.php?t-3152.html
Below are some information regarding the major benefits of using Alfafa Meal (contains triacontanol) to your plants. (in commercial cultivation, alfafa is said to have increase growth times and foliage weight for roses)
Take from Cannabisworld - http://www.cannabisworld.org/vbportal/forums/showthread.php?threadid=45123
Triacontanol by Ionicbigbud and Duque_de_Rivas
Duque_de_Rivas:
I wanted to let everyone know about a regimen that has really been working for me in hydro. Most of these ideas have come from this thread, which I would be remiss not to mention: http://www.cannabisworld.org/ubb/Fo...TML/005220.html
For my tea and 30 babes, I make up a batch 24 hrs prior to using: one half cup alfalfa pellets tied in an old sock / gallon of water. Alfalfa pellets go for about $10 for a 50 lb. bag and are used as horse feed. A 50 lb. bag is more than enough for you and everyone else you know.
I only make a gallon at a time because it goes bad in about 3 - 4 days after mixing (smells horrible!!!).
Then, either just before the lights come on or go off, I will drench anything that has roots or is over a week old 1x / day. I quit using this spray one week before I switch to 12/12 as the hormone (triacontonol) will keep them in veg longer, making you lose valuable time and contributing to overgrowth; this means I only use it 2 - 4 times, but it is worth it!
Anyway, I wanted to include this in a link in my sig, so I thought I'd start this thread.
Everyone's comments are more than welcome, as the alfalfa issue has come a long way since it was first discussed.
Happy growing!
IonicBigBud:
I have always entertained the idea of the use of Alfalfa meal (3-1-2) in my soil or to make a tea out of so I took the plunge and man it makes a difference. If you are unsure of this chemical do a google search on the subject and you will be sold hands down.
There are 46 posts on the subject from Doctors of horticulture from major universities and the one that sold me was where it stated that super thrive contained this chemical and the use of it dates back to the early 1900's. Corn farmers use this to increase crop production. No wonder my plants grew so well back in Indiana corn fields where I learned to grow!!!
If any of you want to try this organic wonder and have problems finding it in your area PM me. Not everyone has a feed store in their area. and 50lb bag goes a long way so let me know and we will work something out. Happy growing!!!! Peace!!!
Here's one more link worth checking out: http://www.cannabisworld.org/vbportal/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7395
More vital info & links on Alfafa Meal:
Triacontanol Links:
http://www.rdrop.com/~paul/alfalfa.html
You might want to try using alfalfa tea on your roses. Alfalfa releases triacontanol, an alcohol ester compound that acts as a growth stimulant. The alfalfa is not a food in the sense that nitrogen is, but it makes the uptake of nutrients more efficient. You'll have a dramatic increase in both growth, bloom, and overall vigour of the plant.
2 cups Alfalfa pellets or meal.
2.5 gal. water.
steep for 2-3 days covered.
Apply about a half gallon on your minis and a full gallon on your larger bushes about every 6-8 weeks. This is something that can be done in the garden at any time of the year without the usual concern of stimulating growth at inappropriate times, as you would with fertilizers.
http://www.minerva.at/search97cgi/s..._21_130417.html
The effects of a long chain aliphatic alcohol 1-triacontanol (TRIA) on the photosynthesis and membrane properties of mesophyll protoplasts and chloroplasts isolated from pea leaves were studied. In vitro treatments of isolated protoplasts caused a large enhancement (166 percent) of the CO2-fixation rate after 60 min of TRIA (10 ^-6 M) application as compared to the control. An enhanced photosynthetic response was observed in vitro treated leaf pieces. Application of octacosanol (OCTA) under the same experimental conditions did not result in any stimulating effects. In vivo treatments of pea seedlings also resulted in a significant increase of the net CO2 uptake to 109% and 119% in 10^-8 M and 10 ^-6 M TRIA-treated plants respectively.
http://www.healthy.net/library/jour...1no1/sativa.htm
Medicago sativa (alfalfa) also contains a plant growth stimulating substance identified as Triacontanol. When applied to crops it increases the growth and yield of several species. Applying 117kg of Alfalfa to a hectare of tomatoes increases yields by 10 metric tons per hectare.
http://www.bmi.net/roseguy/fbamend.html
Alfalfa - While at first glance it would appear that nitrogen is the big benefit from alfalfa (Meal: 5-1-2; Pellets: 14-4-
, with a good dose of iron and trace elements, the real benefit comes from a fatty acid alcohol called triacontanol which occurs naturally in the waxy surface of the plant’s leaves. Triacontanol is a root stimulant which, when used in small quantities, can increase yields in garden plots by 30 to 60%. It can be applied to roses straight out of the bag or box, or applied in an "alfalfa tea."For direct application, sprinkle up to a cup of pellets, a half cup for miniatures, around each bush and water. The pellets then swell up and break apart. Then scratch the alfalfa into the soil or cover with mulch. If you leave the alfalfa on the surface, it will mold, and, when it dries, it will turn hard and crusty…work it in. Don’t use more than a cup, or its effectiveness will drop.
For alfalfa tea, add 10 to 12 cups of alfalfa pellets to a 32 gallon garbage can, add water, stir and steep for 2 or 3 hours to a couple of days. You can add 4 to 6 cups of Epsom salts and 8 ounces of fish fertilizer as a "fortifier", if you wish. Apply a gallon per bush, 1/3 gallon per miniature. Stir often to keep it mixed. You can pour the slurry on the bottom of the garbage can onto some of the roses, or add it to your vegetable garden.
50 lb bags can be purchased at farm & feed stores. Use once or twice a year.
http://www.vioryl.gr/products/agroactive_list.html
Check out “Gigamix” in their listing:
GIGAMIX EMULSION FOLIAR PRODUCT (11-1-1)+trace elements
Hey CG, they have floramite at my local hydro store, but instead they recommended me to use Mighty Wash from NPK. i used it last week and just noticed tonight that theyre back =(
collective gardener
Well-Known Member
Apologies in advance to Kitty and all other AN haters.
The verdict is in. The Connoiseur produces bigger yields than the Sensi Bloom. We're harvesting the Sensi grown buds right now and the difference in bud size is obvious. I'd guess that the Connoiseur yielded 20% more than the Sensi. And, remember, I only used Connoiseur for the first half of the bloom phase on the last crop...then Sensi Bloom to finish them.
The Grotek plants are slightly shorter and bushier than the AN plants they're against. It's only by 3" on plants 30" tall. I think it's too early to make any judgements or predictions. I keep threatening to buy a new camera, but haven't yet. I promise to get one soon and take pics of the Grotek 2011 Fall Challange.
I really need to settup a Flora Nove test. All my buddies are now on it full time. When I got better yields from AN over Cutting Edge, all my buddies ran out and got new nutes to try. They were convinced that Cutting Edge was not the best choice, but weren't convinced that AN was the answer. For that matter, neither am I. Commercial W went with the Flora Nova and just slammed em. His yields were insane...better than mine with AN, and also without CO2. Cases and cases of Flora Nova and associated additives were ordered this week from our Hydro Store. I'm getting my shit tomorrow. We'll have Cutting Edge vs. Advanced Nutrients vs. GroTek vs. GH Flora Nova going all at once! I have to get a camera quick.
The verdict is in. The Connoiseur produces bigger yields than the Sensi Bloom. We're harvesting the Sensi grown buds right now and the difference in bud size is obvious. I'd guess that the Connoiseur yielded 20% more than the Sensi. And, remember, I only used Connoiseur for the first half of the bloom phase on the last crop...then Sensi Bloom to finish them.
The Grotek plants are slightly shorter and bushier than the AN plants they're against. It's only by 3" on plants 30" tall. I think it's too early to make any judgements or predictions. I keep threatening to buy a new camera, but haven't yet. I promise to get one soon and take pics of the Grotek 2011 Fall Challange.
I really need to settup a Flora Nove test. All my buddies are now on it full time. When I got better yields from AN over Cutting Edge, all my buddies ran out and got new nutes to try. They were convinced that Cutting Edge was not the best choice, but weren't convinced that AN was the answer. For that matter, neither am I. Commercial W went with the Flora Nova and just slammed em. His yields were insane...better than mine with AN, and also without CO2. Cases and cases of Flora Nova and associated additives were ordered this week from our Hydro Store. I'm getting my shit tomorrow. We'll have Cutting Edge vs. Advanced Nutrients vs. GroTek vs. GH Flora Nova going all at once! I have to get a camera quick.
lamabile85
Member
Interesting test. I can't wait to see the pictures and the results.
Hey CG been folowing this thread since the begining. Never really had any thing to say, just been watching and learning a thing or too. Ok so i've been doing this for bout 8 years now i've always been a die hard GH person started with the 3 part back in the day and stuck with it for a very long time. And always only used there brand of additives, DIAMOND NECTAUR, KOOL BLOOM etc..... But recentely I had some one talk me into trying something new. Cause he was getting insane yields, I've always been happy with a lb per 1000w. I ran the 1 part Flora Nova my last four cycles and it yielded me 1.4lb per 1000w. But now I'm running the Heavy16 two part, my buddie swears by it. If it doesnt get me were the Flora Nova did I will have to switch back. Have you heard any thing about Heavy16?
Hey CG, I also want to try this Flora Nova experiment on my bloom phase. My list of what i just picked up.
Flora Nova Bloom
Floralicious bloom and plus
Florablend
Liquid Koolbloom and Dry Koolbloom
i also picked up a liter of that Final Bloom yellow bottle for $65. The guy at the store was telling me he uses it too with just overdrive and water and has gotten amazing results. as for the floramite dude told me not to tell anyone they carry it lol. but if you want just PM me and i'll give you the name of the spot.
Let me know if i missed something on the list.
Jozikins
Well-Known Member
You are going to rock your fucking garden, Megayielder420 uses a similar mix and he blows it the fuck up in vert growing! Last crop he pulled 5.5 lbs of 2kw, only 2kw!! He would have pulled more if his grow partner didn't kill off a Chem Dawg and nearly killed a Giesel. But that recipe is the shit, I recently have been trying H&G vs Technaflora vs FloraNova, and to be honest they are all doing soooo well. So far, I like H&G for a completely bump free ride with no hitches, no watery tissue, pH perfect when freshly bottled and solid harvests with a great smell, TechnaFlora is really easy to use, totally pH perfect when fresh, and gives massive stem growth, massive leaf sites, lots and lots of bud sites, but it isn't the perfect nutrient, node spacing could be better, however, anyone and I mean ANYONE can have a successful crop of lots and lots and lots of dank sticky buds with Technaflora, I think every beginner should start with this product, tissue is a little watery, but I still love to use it on my micro grows! But Flora Nova is the shit!! It is hard to underfeed, hard to over feed, the stems are fantastic, it goes with any bloom boster, floralicious plus ignites it with incredibly rapid and vigorous growth! I haven't cropped with it recently, I just flipped everything to 12 12 maybe a week or two ago, but so far it is giving me my best results and it is SO FUCKING EASY!! Red or Green, that is it. Boosters are completely optional, I've seen people go start to finish this just A and B with great yields and great product. However, I do recommend boosters that you already like, a lot of people use the kool bloom dry and liquid for obvious reasons, but I've used the Fox Farm trio a while back before I tried H&G, and was getting stellar yields. This time I want to try it with the shooting powder, and if Megayielder420 has luck with it, I'll use the MOAB next time. I also want to use Awesome Blossom by Technaflora with it, I love that product, fantastic bloom tonic.
DJKSTICK
Active Member
Hey CG, have you ever tried Fox Farm nutes? If so what did you think.......and if anyone else out there have used them I would love to hear about your experiences. Kitty...I have faith that CG will find another nute line that can give the results that AN has, once he does that would the wedding be back on...lol. And I would like to thank everyone on this thread minus the two or three negative parasites that decided to drop in. Your information has been more valuable to me than you know. Thank You.
Fnominon
Active Member
Hey Djkstick, I have run the full fox farm program for about a year and had solid results. Its not necessarily going to give you top yields, but combined with a soil grow you really have to try hard to screw it up. I just finished reading your entire thread CG and have learned a lot from it, thank you. Today is my 3rd year anniversary on Rollitup and this is my first post, I have always been to paranoid to post online, paranoid for the old days I guess, but honestly this thread is way to good to resist participating.
CG have you tried Avid to get rid of your mites? Is it available in California? I had thryps and spider mites so bad that I was pushed to using it, but in hind site I wish I had used it sooner. The strategy I used was to spray all my veg plants and my plants in the first two weeks of flower with Avid and then I used a product called Safer on the rest of my flowering plants. With just two applications of Avid and regular spraying of the later flowering plants with "Safer" I was able to completely eliminate all pests. Its been months with no treatments what so ever and I have zero signs of any mites or thryps.
CG have you tried Avid to get rid of your mites? Is it available in California? I had thryps and spider mites so bad that I was pushed to using it, but in hind site I wish I had used it sooner. The strategy I used was to spray all my veg plants and my plants in the first two weeks of flower with Avid and then I used a product called Safer on the rest of my flowering plants. With just two applications of Avid and regular spraying of the later flowering plants with "Safer" I was able to completely eliminate all pests. Its been months with no treatments what so ever and I have zero signs of any mites or thryps.
I think I hijacked CG LOL He's trying to extract my head from the door I intentionally slammed it into LOL (figuratively speaking with my grow). Thank you CG. Hey could I try the Flora Nova instead of the AN?