Evolution, Divine Creation, Starseed, or Other

[shnkrmn]

Arthur C. Clarke, who died last week in Sri Lanka at the age of 90 was possibly the most influential science fiction writer of all time.

In 1945, before anyone had gone into space, even before rockets had left earth's atmosphere, Clarke proposed a network of geostationary satellites positioned around earth to be used for global wireless communication. Today we have just such a network without which our modern world would be vastly different. In his honor, the geostationary orbit 22,000 miles above the equator is known as the Clarke Orbit.

His work as a writer of fiction explored possible scenarios for man's encounters with alien civilizations. His most famous work, 2001: A Space Odyssey, had its origin in a collaboration with the filmmaker Stanley Kubrick on a loose adaption of a story he wrote in 1948 titled "The Sentinel". The central premise of that work regards the deposit of a beacon on the Earth's moon which, when uncovered by a sufficiently advanced human race, would send a signal to its owners, an advanced interstellar civilization, of the presence of humans. The reader, or viewer of the film, can decide for themselves what the conclusion means; are we kin of that alien race, or the products of a experiment or process to spread intelligent life?

Another famous work, Rendezvous with Rama, surrounds the discovery and exploration of a vast, world-sized space vessel, seemingly uninhabited but functional and the effect it has on those who explore it. I read this many times when I was young and recommend it to all.

 

[shnkrmn]

Exogenesis, the notion that life on earth originated elsewhere in the universe is an idea which has been around, surprisingly, for several hundred years. For some, this could mean that the elements of life exist uniformly throughout the universe and await only the right conditions to flourish. This is the panspermia that email mentioned earlier.

Others think there is a possibility of the transfer of life forms from one planetary body to another through collisions with asteroids and comets, causing the ejection of large quantities of dust and rock which then fall on to other planetary bodies. This mechanism is known to have occurred in our solar system. Although it was far more frequent in the early history of our solar system, especially about 4 billion years ago when the moon got its spots, large asteroid and comet impacts occur today as the impact of comet Shoemaker-Levy into Jupiter in 1994 illustrates (I think that is one of the coolest things that has happened in my lifetime). Some meteorites which have fallen on Earth have been confirmed to be Martian in origin. Much work has been done and continues to be done on on whether and how life forms such as bacteria can survive in interplanetary space; so far it looks promising.

Ah, aliens. There is currently no scientific evidence of which I am aware that indicates life was deliberately started on earth by an alien civilization. Even Arthur Clarke stops short of such a hypothesis, preferring instead that life on Earth has been manipulated by aliens to produce intelligence. Science Fiction is chock full of entire universes based on this notion.

 

[shnkrmn]

According to Chinese tradition, in the beginning Pan Gu developed in the darkness of a giant cosmic egg. After 18,000 years the egg shattered and Pan Gu, who is depicted in Chinese art holding a hammer, emerged. The lighter fragments (Yang: the active solar male principle) of the cosmic egg became heaven, while the dark and heavy fragments (Yin: the passive shady female principle associated with the moon) became earth. For another 18,000 years Pan Gu continued to grow, pushing heaven and earth further apart until they solidified and became fixed into place. Exhausted Pan Gu laid down and died. His skull was transformed into the sky, his left eye became the sun and his right eye became the moon. His flesh became the soil, while his bones and teeth were transformed into rocks. From his hair arose the stars and vegetation, and his blood, sweat and tears produced the rivers, ocean, rain, and dew. Pan Gu’s breath became the wind and clouds, and his voice turned into thunder. The parasites that lived on Pan Gu’s body became mankind.

I like that this story has a certain resonance with big bang theory.

 

[Cheese x Kush]

I cant wait untill i get my wings once global warming kicks in properly its going 2 be sweet

 

[bobharvey]

I think we have evolved but maybe that's how God created us...idk at this point...

 

[We TaRdED]

i believe there was a divine creation of the big bang and everything else to follow.

its rather perplexing though to try and fathom all the matter/energy was once stored into a pea sized(or smaller) volume.

also, would this pea sized infinite mass object be considered the center of the universe at the time because there was no other reference points which to go by? but how could there be a center of something that is infinitely large and never ending?

if aliens have space ships capable of flying past the speed of light, how long would it take to go to the "ends" of space where there is matter. for example, if all mass originated from one central point, blew up and has been expanding ever since, wouldnt there be an end to where this mass hasnt reached yet? like if a bomb blew off in space, its impossible for its particles to ever reach the ends of an infinite space and thus there would be an end to this expanding mass.

furthermore after you go past the speed of light, how much would you travel into time? but there is no absolute time and would that matter anyways?

sorry for the rant, feel free to try and explain my queries.

YouTube - U.F.O DISCLOSURE PROJECT U.FO MEETING

aliens disclosure video for anyone who want to watch.

 

[shnkrmn]

Some religions including gnosticism, believe that the supreme god no longer concerns itself with the affairs of the universe (which we can't see because we are trapped in a construct which is the material universe created by a blind, mad god known as the demiurge (Who was created by the supreme deity). Gnostics identified the demiurge with Yahweh, the Hebraic god, who falsely declared there was no god but him. Since gnostics believed the material universe to be evil, its creator was also deemed evil.

Divine creation for me. I don't necessarily think they are still involved, but I guess I can't wrap my mind around the odds and amount of time it would take to create what we have today some other way.

Take Occam's Razor (I'm sure email, our resident rationalist, will let you borrow his) and use it look at some of the very complicated explication behind many world creation stories and you might want to wrap your mind around scientific theories of creation and cling for dear life lol! Some of these stories are damned scary

 

[shnkrmn]

Great post, not a rant. I'm not much of a physicist. Religion and metaphysics is more my speed. It warps my mind too. Especially when you start with faster-than-light travel and the boundaries of infinity. The first cause of creation is the greatest mystery we can think of.

But, when you talk of space ships accelerating toward the speed of light, don't they also attain infinite mass? (ow, head hurting again, lol)

i believe there was a divine creation of the big bang and everything else to follow.

its rather perplexing though to try and fathom all the matter/energy was once stored into a pea sized(or smaller) volume.

also, would this pea sized infinite mass object be considered the center of the universe at the time because there was no other reference points which to go by? but how could there be a center of something that is infinitely large and never ending?

if aliens have space ships capable of flying past the speed of light, how long would it take to go to the "ends" of space where there is matter. for example, if all mass originated from one central point, blew up and has been expanding ever since, wouldnt there be an end to where this mass hasnt reached yet? like if a bomb blew off in space, its impossible for its particles to ever reach the ends of an infinite space and thus there would be an end to this expanding mass.

furthermore after you go past the speed of light, how much would you travel into time? but there is no absolute time and would that matter anyways?

sorry for the rant, feel free to try and explain my queries.

YouTube - U.F.O DISCLOSURE PROJECT U.FO MEETING

aliens disclosure video for anyone who want to watch.

 

[shnkrmn]

Maybe a propeller on your head too?

I cant wait untill i get my wings once global warming kicks in properly its going 2 be sweet

 

[mexiblunt]

Ahh... right...I thought I kinda knew who Arthur C.Clarke was. I don't have much to add right now, but theres something I'm going to go look up. back in a bit.

 

[email468]

So any Joseph Campbell fans out there? I would guess there are quite a few!

 

[mexiblunt]

Ohhh nevermind. I was looking up the voyager1+2 spacecrafts. I knew they were nearing the edge of something years ago, for some reason I thought it was the edge of the universe but it's the edge of our solar system(duh).

When I read about it. It seemed like as they were approaching the edge their speed was slowing, suggesting that there was a force acting upon them. Also suggesting an edge of the universe. I must have been really high.

Does turn out that they did discover that our solar system is asymmetrical tho.


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[shnkrmn]

So any Joseph Campbell fans out there? I would guess there are quite a few!

Campbell, Frazer, Durkheim, Eliade. . . . . lol. I am (was) an anthropologist.

 

[mexiblunt]

Just from a quick look I would be interested in reading... The power of myth. The masks of God. and Myths of light.

 

[email468]

Just from a quick look I would be interested in reading... The power of myth. The masks of God. and Myths of light.

The Hero with a Thousand Faces was my introduction to Joe Campbell and I highly, highly recommend it (and the others you mention).

 

[email468]

Campbell, Frazer, Durkheim, Eliade. . . . . lol. I am (was) an anthropologist.

That's awesome! I'm a science cheerleader but not a scientist. do you mind my asking what you do/did regarding anthropology?

 

[shnkrmn]

The Hindus have many creation stories (so does the Bible, if you look at Genesis carefully). Here's one:

In the beginning was Self (Atman) alone, in the shape of a person. He, looking round, saw nothing but his Self. He 1st said, "This is I"; therefore he became "I" by name. Therefore even now, if a man is asked, he 1st says, "This is I," and then pronounces the other name which he may have. And because before all this he (the Self) burnt down all evils, therefore he was a person (purusha). Verily he who knows this burns down everyone who tries to be before him. He feared, and therefore anyone who is lonely fears. He thought, "As there is nothing but myself, why should I fear?" Then his fear passed away. For what should he have feared? Verily fear arises from a second only. But he felt no delight. Therefore a man who is lonely feels no delight. He wished for a second. He was as large as man and wife together. He then made this, his Self, to fall in 2, (pat) [the word "pat" means 2] and thence arose husband (pat) and wife (patni). Therefore Yagnavalkya said, "We 2 are thus (each of us) like half a shell." Therefore the void which was there is filled by the wife. He embraced her and men were born. She thought, "How can he embrace me after having produced me from himself? I shall hide myself." She then became a cow, the other became a bull and embraced her, and hence cows were born. The one became a mare, and the other a stallion, the one a male ass, and the other a female ass. He embraced her, and hence one-hoofed animals were born. The one became a she-goat the other a he-goat; the one became a ewe, the other a ram. He embraced her, and hence goats and sheep were born. And thus he created everything that exists in pairs, down to the ants.

 

[email468]

Ohhh nevermind. I was looking up the voyager1+2 spacecrafts. I knew they were nearing the edge of something years ago, for some reason I thought it was the edge of the universe but it's the edge of our solar system(duh).

When I read about it. It seemed like as they were approaching the edge their speed was slowing, suggesting that there was a force acting upon them. Also suggesting an edge of the universe. I must have been really high.

Does turn out that they did discover that our solar system is asymmetrical tho.


</IMG>

I think human spacecraft reaching the heliopause is an extremely significant achievement! We actually built something that traveled that far and will continue on through space. Wow.

 

[email468]

The Hindus have many creation stories (so does the Bible, if you look at Genesis carefully). Here's one:

In the beginning was Self (Atman) alone, in the shape of a person. He, looking round, saw nothing but his Self. He 1st said, "This is I"; therefore he became "I" by name. Therefore even now, if a man is asked, he 1st says, "This is I," and then pronounces the other name which he may have. And because before all this he (the Self) burnt down all evils, therefore he was a person (purusha). Verily he who knows this burns down everyone who tries to be before him. He feared, and therefore anyone who is lonely fears. He thought, "As there is nothing but myself, why should I fear?" Then his fear passed away. For what should he have feared? Verily fear arises from a second only. But he felt no delight. Therefore a man who is lonely feels no delight. He wished for a second. He was as large as man and wife together. He then made this, his Self, to fall in 2, (pat) [the word "pat" means 2] and thence arose husband (pat) and wife (patni). Therefore Yagnavalkya said, "We 2 are thus (each of us) like half a shell." Therefore the void which was there is filled by the wife. He embraced her and men were born. She thought, "How can he embrace me after having produced me from himself? I shall hide myself." She then became a cow, the other became a bull and embraced her, and hence cows were born. The one became a mare, and the other a stallion, the one a male ass, and the other a female ass. He embraced her, and hence one-hoofed animals were born. The one became a she-goat the other a he-goat; the one became a ewe, the other a ram. He embraced her, and hence goats and sheep were born. And thus he created everything that exists in pairs, down to the ants.

oh oh - tell the story about the lord who wanted the most beautiful palace and the architect got so fed up that he complained. Do you know what i'm blathering about? I love that story!

 

[mexiblunt]

Yeah I know!. I wasn't trying to downplay it or anything it just didn't relate really to what I was thinking. If it were the universe's "egde" that they were nearing and slowing down because of... that might have fit in here better. I'm just gonna sit back and read some of these stories, there great!