Questions about pro-mix and biocanna run and using amendments

[NightbirdX]

So I had a ton of RO soil on hand and amended it, but ended up not liking it. Too many bug issues and some deficiency issues. I am going to go back to Pro-Mix organic and am wondering if my amendments would work. I decided to start using some amendments because I am trying to take the bottle out of my grow. On top of the BioCanna line, I use Thrive Alive, GO Cal mag, EJ Microblast, ProteKt, Humega (occassionally,) and Roots Excelurator.

My recipe is as follows:

10 gal Pro-Mix Organic
2 gal EWC {all around goodies}
2 gal Ancient Forest {Humus}
12 Cups Espoma Kelp Meal (Directions say 1/20 mix rate.) {trace and growth hormones}
2 Cups Dolomite Lime {Cal Mag and pH buffer}
1 Cup Azomite (The only directions I've found say to apply at 1TBS/gal.) {Complete trace amendment}
10 TBS Azos {Nitrogen Fixing Bacteria}
10 TBS Mykos {Gen purpose mycorhizzae}

Does this look okay? There were a few things I wasn't sure about. I realize that with the Azomite and the kelp meal I might have an abundance of trace. Anything you might add.

That being said, my product is coming out great, but there is always room for improvement. I would like to eventually move to a soil mix and not have any bottled nutes, but so far my results have been less than spectacular. My pro-mix plants run side by side and are doing much better. I just hate coming off the money and would like to simplify to get it down to a water and carb mix.

 

[watchhowIdoit]

I would drop the Azos and Mycos. Your EWC and humus should contain all the bugs you need. And save the azomite for your vegetable crops were you actually consume the plant material. Azomite has little to actually offer the plant for growth. But the plant tissue does store some of the trace elements found in the azomite within its tissues. Passing them onto us when we consume them. Thats where the big benefits of azomite come from. Wheatgrass growers wouldnt be caught dead w/o it.....

 

[NightbirdX]

Thanks a lot man. I wasn't sure if you could over do it with mycorhizzae, but I have been reading that a lot of people are just mixing it in automatically. Good to know about the azomite. Do you think the kelp will have enough trace in it, or should I reduce down to like 1 tsp/gal with the Azomite, or just drop it all together?

 

[watchhowIdoit]

Greensand and rock phosphate would be good additions for macro, micro and trace elements. Kelp meal is a great long term slow release. The fewer things you start off with the easier it is to figure out whats working and whats not. It can take some time to get your own mix tuned in. But once you do the effort will be payed back 10 fold.

 

[Wetdog]

Whoa Daddy!

12 cups of kelp? 1 or 2 would be more than enough. For agricultural use, only 200lbs/acre is recommended. It's great stuff, and I wouldn't grow without it, but a little goes a long way.

I'd keep the Azomite, one of the VERY few things I can't source locally that I'll pay to have shipped. The more and longer I use stuff heavy in trace, Azomite, kelp meal, greensand, rock dusts, rock phosphate the more I'm impressed by it. Especially the second and third go round, since some of it takes over a year to start really breaking down and becoming available.

It's almost impossible to have too much trace and Azomite and rock dust in general simply will not burn plants. I'll generally add kelp meal and Azomite, greensand and rock phos at the same rate as I do dolomite lime for fresh mixes. For recycles, ~1/2-3/4 as much, since it doesn't all get depleted.

In fact, I get better results with re amended, recycled mix than I do with first use 'fresh' mix. You'll see if you recycle.

Wet

 

[NightbirdX]

Whoa Daddy!

12 cups of kelp? 1 or 2 would be more than enough. For agricultural use, only 200lbs/acre is recommended. It's great stuff, and I wouldn't grow without it, but a little goes a long way.

I'd keep the Azomite, one of the VERY few things I can't source locally that I'll pay to have shipped. The more and longer I use stuff heavy in trace, Azomite, kelp meal, greensand, rock dusts, rock phosphate the more I'm impressed by it. Especially the second and third go round, since some of it takes over a year to start really breaking down and becoming available.

It's almost impossible to have too much trace and Azomite and rock dust in general simply will not burn plants. I'll generally add kelp meal and Azomite, greensand and rock phos at the same rate as I do dolomite lime for fresh mixes. For recycles, ~1/2-3/4 as much, since it doesn't all get depleted.

In fact, I get better results with re amended, recycled mix than I do with first use 'fresh' mix. You'll see if you recycle.

Wet

Thanks wet. I was just gonna go off of the suggested dose in the directions. Good to know

 

[farmerjoe420]

since your using espoma, look at their bio-tone or plant-tone for a all purpose fertilizer base. its got a variety of goodies in their and its very reasonable for the $$$. my mix is similar and i have good results. i use lc's soilless mix base # 1 0r #2, and then the espoma bio-tone, 1 cup lime per cu ft, azomite 1 tbsp /gal, and a few cups of kelp 1-3 /cu ft. i agree that the EWC should have all the fungus and bacteria you need and if you consider using bio-tone, it has all that stuff in there as well.

 

[NightbirdX]

since your using espoma, look at their bio-tone or plant-tone for a all purpose fertilizer base. its got a variety of goodies in their and its very reasonable for the $$$. my mix is similar and i have good results. i use lc's soilless mix base # 1 0r #2, and then the espoma bio-tone, 1 cup lime per cu ft, azomite 1 tbsp /gal, and a few cups of kelp 1-3 /cu ft. i agree that the EWC should have all the fungus and bacteria you need and if you consider using bio-tone, it has all that stuff in there as well.

Its funny that you say that about the Plant tone. I was considering adding that to the mix also to take the BioCanna out of the equation. I run everything but the kelp meal right now and things are going... okay. I think I was just underwatering them and that was causing problems. I am using 12.5ml BioVega at the moment and if I feed them every couple of days, they have been picking up. Where as I have been used to my pro-mix holding about 4-5 days worth of nutrient mix.

How much greensand and rock phos you guys using?

 

[Wolverine97]

since your using espoma, look at their bio-tone or plant-tone for a all purpose fertilizer base. its got a variety of goodies in their and its very reasonable for the $$$. my mix is similar and i have good results. i use lc's soilless mix base # 1 0r #2, and then the espoma bio-tone, 1 cup lime per cu ft, azomite 1 tbsp /gal, and a few cups of kelp 1-3 /cu ft. i agree that the EWC should have all the fungus and bacteria you need and if you consider using bio-tone, it has all that stuff in there as well.

Azos is a different inoculant, and is not something that's generally present in EWC. It's a nitrogen fixing bacteria, and it also works very well in aero cloners. There are plenty of good microbes there for sure, but I've had great results using the Xtreme Gardening beneficials. Their Mykos is different from most mic products, it contains actual spores, not just propagules. It will colonize the soil much more quickly and reliably. It's worth the tiny bit it costs to add to a batch, IMO.

 

[wheezer]

I'm trying to do the same thing man, get off the bottles!! haha. I'm getting there but I don't have it down yet. I agree with these guys about the greensand and rock phosphate for sure. I use Fish bone meal, and Dr. Earths Organic 8 Bud and Bloom booster too. This is some fantastic stuff. I don't know if you can get Dr. Earths products where you are, but if you can, it's worth looking into. It's a 4-10-7 and it's full of microbes and stuff. Good luck!

 

[farmerjoe420]

I'm trying to do the same thing man, get off the bottles!! haha. I'm getting there but I don't have it down yet. I agree with these guys about the greensand and rock phosphate for sure. I use Fish bone meal, and Dr. Earths Organic 8 Bud and Bloom booster too. This is some fantastic stuff. I don't know if you can get Dr. Earths products where you are, but if you can, it's worth looking into. It's a 4-10-7 and it's full of microbes and stuff. Good luck!

i hear ya bro. ive used his ferts with good success as well but i mainly use the espoma because i get it from a distrubitor for about 80% cheaper than retail and its like a 40 minute ride to get it where i can get this about 3 miles from my house so its a no brainer for me. i didnt like dr earth soil though. deficincies very early, almost like theres none of the stuff in there thats listed on the bag. i think i will stick to mixing my own.

 

[farmerjoe420]

Azos is a different inoculant, and is not something that's generally present in EWC. It's a nitrogen fixing bacteria, and it also works very well in aero cloners. There are plenty of good microbes there for sure, but I've had great results using the Xtreme Gardening beneficials. Their Mykos is different from most mic products, it contains actual spores, not just propagules. It will colonize the soil much more quickly and reliably. It's worth the tiny bit it costs to add to a batch, IMO.

no doubt it is probably superior but for the $$$ it should be. for me i think teas are a much more cost affective approach with just as much benefit. i doubt you would notice the difference between the two ( azos or compost tea ), and if you did, would it be enough to justify the cost?

 

[NightbirdX]

How much plant tone are you using, Farmerjoe? And you are doing a water only mix?

 

[Wolverine97]

no doubt it is probably superior but for the $$$ it should be. for me i think teas are a much more cost affective approach with just as much benefit. i doubt you would notice the difference between the two ( azos or compost tea ), and if you did, would it be enough to justify the cost?

If the target bacteria simply is not present in the starting material, then no matter how well you make the tea you can't just conjure it up. It has to be there to begin with. No offense, but you're essentially just guessing.

 

[NightbirdX]

The azos and mykos werent terribly expensive either for a huge bag.

 

[farmerjoe420]

How much plant tone are you using, Farmerjoe? And you are doing a water only mix?

right now im using 5 cups per cubic ft. at the rate espoma suggests, its about 4, but ive bumped it up to prolong feeding. no i dont water only. with this mix, i use liquid fish & seaweed if needed during veg. depends on how long i take them before flip. it usually lasts a few weeks though.

 

[Wetdog]

NbX

AFA rock dust/Azomite amounts, I mostly use a cup/cf, just like the dolomite. This is for fresh mix. When I re amend I'll use slightly less, like 1/2-3/4 cup.

Up to 5 cups/cf isn't going to hurt anything, not with rock dusts and I would use more than I do if I could source it locally.

Wet

 

[NightbirdX]

NbX

AFA rock dust/Azomite amounts, I mostly use a cup/cf, just like the dolomite. This is for fresh mix. When I re amend I'll use slightly less, like 1/2-3/4 cup.

Up to 5 cups/cf isn't going to hurt anything, not with rock dusts and I would use more than I do if I could source it locally.

Wet

Ok, cool.

So if I went with:

1 cu ft Pro-Mix Organic
2 gal EWC
2 gal Ancient Forest
2 gal perlite
6 Cups Plant Tone
1-2 Cups Espoma Kelp Meal
2 Cups Dolomite Lime
1 Cup Rock Phos
1 Cup Green Sand
1 Cup Azomite
10 TBS Azos
10 TBS Mykos

Does this sound about right? Anything else you might suggest?

About reusing. I am saving my soil currently. I have it outside broken down with a tarp over it. I was thinking about reusing it. How long should I let it sit for? Anything special I should add to it or anything?

 

[Wolverine97]

Ok, cool.

So if I went with:

10 gal Pro-Mix Organic
2 gal EWC
2 gal Ancient Forest
6 Cups Plant Tone
1-2 Cups Espoma Kelp Meal
2 Cups Dolomite Lime
1 Cup Rock Phos
1 Cup Green Sand
1 Cup Azomite
10 TBS Azos
10 TBS Mykos

Does this sound about right? Anything else you might suggest?

About reusing. I am saving my soil currently. I have it outside broken down with a tarp over it. I was thinking about reusing it. How long should I let it sit for? Anything special I should add to it or anything?

I know you know that I think this, but I still think that mix is going to be too "muddy" if you don't cut it heavily with perlite and/or coco coir. Personally I'd add the coir either way, but that's just me. I am very interested to see how things go with this mix you're doing compared to mine, since we've diverged a bit on the base...

 

[NightbirdX]

I know you know that I think this, but I still think that mix is going to be too "muddy" if you don't cut it heavily with perlite and/or coco coir. Personally I'd add the coir either way, but that's just me. I am very interested to see how things go with this mix you're doing compared to mine, since we've diverged a bit on the base...

I can see it being a little bit heavier than that with an RO base soil. I had forgot that we talked about that. I have some perlite on hand, how much do you recommend using, like a gal or so?