The "I don't starve my plants before harvest" thread

[SCARHOLE]

I've just did my 2nd comparison of flushed VS nonflushed.
Tasted the same,( an I use MG Nutes).
Yielded better when fed to the chop.

 

[KushDog]

just smoked a bud off my friends plant. he also grow raspberry cough . it was 9 weeks in a Ebb & flow .

Damn that shit burn my thoart. I dont see how you guys injoy that shit. It wasn't the fairest compareisan hydro vs soil chemicals vs organic based. flushed vs un flushed. But the good part is I think that little test change his mind on how to grow... LOL

I am not trying to arguee with you guys, I was just pointing out this mornings experiment.

His stuff taste alright once it is cured, but cutting a bud off his plant and one of mine. his taste like crap. his are green and mine are purple,gold,blue,red? I like my plants faded right out at the end (they think they are dying)

 

[wbd]

just smoked a bud off my friends plant. he also grow raspberry cough . it was 9 weeks in a Ebb & flow .

Damn that shit burn my thoart. I dont see how you guys injoy that shit. It wasn't the fairest compareisan hydro vs soil chemicals vs organic based. flushed vs un flushed. But the good part is I think that little test change his mind on how to grow... LOL

I am not trying to arguee with you guys, I was just pointing out this mornings experiment.

His stuff taste alright once it is cured, but cutting a bud off his plant and one of mine. his taste like crap. his are green and mine are purple,gold,blue,red? I like my plants faded right out at the end (they think they are dying)

It's not even fair for you to be evaluating fresh nugs. They all taste like shit, burn terribly, and are harsh. Bleh.

 

[wbd]

I've just did my 2nd comparison of flushed VS nonflushed.
Tasted the same,( an I use MG Nutes).
Yielded better when fed to the chop.

The taste part I believe, the yield part -- how many plants in your experiment?

Too much variance in nature, if yield was any better on the unflushed bud it can only be chalked up to coincidence.

 

[KushDog]

It's not even fair for you to be evaluating fresh nugs. They all taste like shit, burn terribly, and are harsh. Bleh.

why can't you compare freash nugs??? LOL why is it not Fair, is it because it dont back up your theory?

 

[Gastanker]

Ok I'll say this again for all the all the simples: Buds don't store nutrients, they store metabolites of nutrients, but no "chemicals". The only way you can get "chemicals" in/on your buds is if you spray them on or feed PGR's like that Bushmaster poison. Plants cannot excrete nutrients, so flushing cannot draw anything out and by starving your plants your actually drawing the so-called chemicals from the leaves to the buds to be used.

No it's doesn't mean that, because chlorophyll dissipates from a good dry and cure, so yellow leaves at harvest are purely less efficient energy collectors.

This is slightly confusing... So THC isn't a chemical? Chlorophyll isn't a chemical? You realize the entire plant is one big chemical reaction right? I'm curious as to how the chemical compound chlorophyll dissipates from the dry bud when you state that the bud has no chlorophyll to begin with (its a chemical remember) not to mention that you state that chemicals cannot leave the plant. Super confusing.

Nutrient = any element or mineral the plant uses. When you say that buds do not contain elements and minerals what are you saying? Buds are made of glucose only? That would still be elements and minerals... the plant would still have stores of elements and minerals... so yes the plant can store nutrients/chemicals.

 

[Harrekin]

This is slightly confusing... So THC isn't a chemical? Chlorophyll isn't a chemical? You realize the entire plant is one big chemical reaction right? I'm curious as to how the chemical compound chlorophyll dissipates from the dry bud when you state that the bud has no chlorophyll to begin with (its a chemical remember) not to mention that you state that chemicals cannot leave the plant. Super confusing.

Nutrient = any element or mineral the plant uses. When you say that buds do not contain elements and minerals what are you saying? Buds are made of glucose only? That would still be elements and minerals... the plant would still have stores of elements and minerals... so yes the plant can store nutrients/chemicals.

Are you gonna try argue semantics? When I said chemicals I ment "Chemical Nutrients" as so many have started calling them.

And I didn't say chemicals can't leave, break down, change in drying. Sure the THC decarboxylates during curing, it's one of the biggest chemical changes we desire.

What I said was a plant will not excrete nutrients, it doesn't "shit" like we do, so flushing is a pointless exercise. Even if you sure translocation as your reason for flushing, what youre actually doing is telling the plant to remove nutrient metabolites from the leaves (sinks) and move them up TO the flower (drain).

 

[Gastanker]

Are you gonna try argue semantics? When I said chemicals I ment "Chemical Nutrients" as so many have started calling them.

And I didn't say chemicals can't leave, break down, change in drying. Sure the THC decarboxylates during curing, it's one of the biggest chemical changes we desire.

What I said was a plant will not excrete nutrients, it doesn't "shit" like we do, so flushing is a pointless exercise. Even if you sure translocation as your reason for flushing, what youre actually doing is telling the plant to remove nutrient metabolites from the leaves (sinks) and move them up TO the flower (drain).

You miss the point of flushing. You flush so that the plant does not absorb excess (extra, more than necessary) before being chopped. Pretty sure no one actually believes that pouring water through the soil somehow washes mass out of the plant.

No one is arguing that we need to make plants shit - they are saying that you don't need to load your plants with tons of extra materials that do not get you high or add to flavor or scent. More active material with less inactive material is better than the same amount of active material with additional inactive material - super super simple, same reason hash is more potent and smokes "cleaner" than bud.

 

[Gastanker]

Your right with the sink/drain but you're again not considering surplus. If a plant is moving minerals from lower leaves to upper buds it doesn't mean your plant is starving but it does mean that the buds require minerals/elements that they do not have in local surplus. If you heavily feed your plant all the way through flower it never needs to translocate minerals/elements (nutrients) as it has a surplus... a local surplus in the calyx. I don't want to smoke the surplus personally - I can taste it and it's not my cup of tea.

And keep in mind that leaves perform photosynthesis which produces glucose - that's about it. If you have stored energy supplies photosynthesis is not necessary; every other function of the plant relies on cellular respiration. In the last two weeks of flower naturally loosing a few lower fan leaves due to translocation followed by cessation isn't going to decrease the amount of energy going towards bud production - if anything this gives the plant the natural cues (remember that in nature there is a seasonal nutrient cycle) to dump all last efforts and energies into final flowering.

 

[k0ijn]

just smoked a bud off my friends plant. he also grow raspberry cough . it was 9 weeks in a Ebb & flow .

Damn that shit burn my thoart. I dont see how you guys injoy that shit. It wasn't the fairest compareisan hydro vs soil chemicals vs organic based. flushed vs un flushed. But the good part is I think that little test change his mind on how to grow... LOL

I am not trying to arguee with you guys, I was just pointing out this mornings experiment.

His stuff taste alright once it is cured, but cutting a bud off his plant and one of mine. his taste like crap. his are green and mine are purple,gold,blue,red? I like my plants faded right out at the end (they think they are dying)

How much more useless can your information get?
Are you trying to compare fresh bud to properly dried & cured bud?
Not even to mention you're trying to distinguish between, flush - unflush and organic - regular in freshly cut bud..

Come on man.
Every kind of weed, no matter how you grow it, tastes harsh and might even taste bad if you smoke it right off the plant.
If you want to do a proper test, you need to dry and cure the bud properly, side by side, in the same conditions.

why can't you compare freash nugs??? LOL why is it not Fair, is it because it dont back up your theory?

Are you serious?
What can you possibly add of constructive information to this discussion if that is what you believe?

This is getting ridiculous.
If you have no idea how to grow, harvest, dry or cure please don't respond to this thread, your naive assumptions just drive this thread off topic and it will no doubt induce e-fights.

 

[k0ijn]

You miss the point of flushing. You flush so that the plant does not absorb excess (extra, more than necessary) before being chopped. Pretty sure no one actually believes that pouring water through the soil somehow washes mass out of the plant.

No one is arguing that we need to make plants shit - they are saying that you don't need to load your plants with tons of extra materials that do not get you high or add to flavor or scent. More active material with less inactive material is better than the same amount of active material with additional inactive material - super super simple, same reason hash is more potent and smokes "cleaner" than bud.

I'm pretty sure you are one of the only pro-flush people who don't believe that flushing can get mass out of the plant.
If you go and look in the many threads there have been about this subject, you will see what kind of stuff people believe.

No that is not what they're saying, it's what you're saying.
Most flushers say it improves taste, odour, look etc.
What you're saying is that you don't need to "waste" nutrients because the plant already has a surplus built up.

How does hash smoke 'cleaner' than bud?
I live in Denmark, where almost all of the smokers smoke hash, a very tiny number smoke homegrown or bud.
Almost everyone I've given bud to have complained of a rougher smoke than what they're used to.
They say it's harder to smoke and it's a lot tougher on the throat on the other hand they say they get more high from the bud, and in a much nicer way.

This is not because I don't flush or my weed isn't properly dried & cured, it's because of the difference between smoking hashish and bud.
My bud is dried for 6-7 days and cured for months on end, dedicated bud smokers tell me it's some of the best they have ever smoked, not just because it's so soft on the throat but also because of the taste and odour.

My underlying point here is that since the plant will move the chemicals up to the drain "sites" because it's not receiving any more nutrients from the roots, how is it in any way different than having the continual surplus in the leaves and harvesting the buds.
What you're saying is that because you flush, the plant doesn't absorb excess nutrients, therefore all nutrients (from the leaves) and used, and therefore you get a cleaner smoke.
How does that in any way make sense, when the only difference in unflushed bud is that there is a surplus of nutrients stored in the leaves (which are not smoked anyway)?
And you still need to get the chlorophyll out of the bud, so you still need to properly dry & cure your weed, even if flushed.
By doing that you get the exact same result with unflushed bud, since the chlorophyll is broken down and dissipates.


My final point:

More active material with less inactive material is better than the same amount of active material with additional inactive material - super super simple, same reason hash is more potent and smokes "cleaner" than bud.

How is it better, the inactive material you speak off in unflushed buds are stored in the leaves, therefore this material does not affect taste, high, smoke, odour etc.
Yes I agree, hash can be more potent if not cut with anything, but hash does not 'smoke cleaner' than bud.
I've smoked hashish for 10 years, I've only smoked bud for 3-4 years.

 

[BigBuddahCheese]

Do they yield the same as well?

Actually the buds I continue to feed get bigger for sure. Now I do monitor my ppms and the plants definately drop in ppm usage last few weeks, but I give them what they ask for and don't starve them.

 

[Gastanker]

I'm pretty sure you are one of the only pro-flush people who don't believe that flushing can get mass out of the plant.
If you go and look in the many threads there have been about this subject, you will see what kind of stuff people believe.

No that is not what they're saying, it's what you're saying.
Most flushers say it improves taste, odour, look etc.
What you're saying is that you don't need to "waste" nutrients because the plant already has a surplus built up.

How does hash smoke 'cleaner' than bud?
I live in Denmark, where almost all of the smokers smoke hash, a very tiny number smoke homegrown or bud.
Almost everyone I've given bud to have complained of a rougher smoke than what they're used to.
They say it's harder to smoke and it's a lot tougher on the throat on the other hand they say they get more high from the bud, and in a much nicer way.

This is not because I don't flush or my weed isn't properly dried & cured, it's because of the difference between smoking hashish and bud.
My bud is dried for 6-7 days and cured for months on end, dedicated bud smokers tell me it's some of the best they have ever smoked, not just because it's so soft on the throat but also because of the taste and odour.

My underlying point here is that since the plant will move the chemicals up to the drain "sites" because it's not receiving any more nutrients from the roots, how is it in any way different than having the continual surplus in the leaves and harvesting the buds.
What you're saying is that because you flush, the plant doesn't absorb excess nutrients, therefore all nutrients (from the leaves) and used, and therefore you get a cleaner smoke.
How does that in any way make sense, when the only difference in unflushed bud is that there is a surplus of nutrients stored in the leaves (which are not smoked anyway)?
And you still need to get the chlorophyll out of the bud, so you still need to properly dry & cure your weed, even if flushed.
By doing that you get the exact same result with unflushed bud, since the chlorophyll is broken down and dissipates.


My final point:

How is it better, the inactive material you speak off in unflushed buds are stored in the leaves, therefore this material does not affect taste, high, smoke, odour etc.
Yes I agree, hash can be more potent if not cut with anything, but hash does not 'smoke cleaner' than bud.
I've smoked hashish for 10 years, I've only smoked bud for 3-4 years.

You missed what I said. The surplus is not in the leaves it is everywhere. If you are feeding your plant heavily you have a surplus in the leaves as well as in the shoots and calyx. If you continue to feed you keep adding to these surpluses - the surpluses in your calyxes (the part you smoke). If you stop feeding the plant uses up the immediate surpluses in the calyx and then translocation begins - but only after the surplus in the calyx is used up.

Plant A with flush = calyx. Plant B without flush = calyx + surplus.

This is the same thing I was talking about in reference to hash. Hash is a higher % of active ingredients and lower % of inactive material compared to bud. In this example Plant A has a high % of active material and lower % inactive material compared to plant B. To get the same amount of active material you need less in total of the cleaner material - ie to get 1mg of THC I need 1g of bud or 1.6mg of 60% THC hash oil. I combust less excess material with the hash oil.

And of course you only really need to flush if you use excess nutrients. If you monitor your ppm and they decline all through flower like BigBuddah then that is the equivalent of flushing... However that is not the same as running 1500+ppm throughout the entire cycle up to cutting.

ps - In no way am I saying hash is better than bud...

 

[k0ijn]

You missed what I said. The surplus is not in the leaves it is everywhere. If you are feeding your plant heavily you have a surplus in the leaves as well as in the shoots and calyx. If you continue to feed you keep adding to these surpluses - the surpluses in your calyxes (the part you smoke). If you stop feeding the plant uses up the immediate surpluses in the calyx and then translocation begins - but only after the surplus in the calyx is used up.

Plant A with flush = calyx. Plant B without flush = calyx + surplus.

This is the same thing I was talking about in reference to hash. Hash is a higher % of active ingredients and lower % of inactive material compared to bud. In this example Plant A has a high % of active material and lower % inactive material compared to plant B. To get the same amount of active material you need less in total of the cleaner material - ie to get 1mg of THC I need 1g of bud or 1.6mg of 60% THC hash oil. I combust less excess material with the hash oil.

And of course you only really need to flush if you use excess nutrients. If you monitor your ppm and they decline all through flower like BigBuddah then that is the equivalent of flushing... However that is not the same as running 1500+ppm throughout the entire cycle up to cutting.

ps - In no way am I saying hash is better than bud...

I know that one smokes calyxes, there is no need for () to explain things.

I still don't see how it affects the taste, odour, harshness that some chemicals and minerals are in the calyxes.
Why would you have surplus in the calyx? Surely the plant uses what is there in the calyx to produce flowers, calyxes are not storage spaces.
If the plant lacks nitrogen it will 'pull' it from the leaves to assist in building calyx formations (if it's flowering of course).

This "immediate" surplus you're talking about in calyxes appear to be used up within a day or two, that's not really a surplus in my mind.

Where exactly do you get this from? If you have any scientific information regarding immediate surplus in calyxes I'd like to see it for myself.

You cannot compare hash to bud in this way.
There are so many variations of hash, some have better active to inactive ratios than bud, others (many) don't.
If you are purely talking about ISO-hash or Butane-hash then please specify so.


For the first time I agree with you, "you only really need to flush if you use excess nutrients".
I completely agree.

Flushing is an error correcting measure. Either if you have salt buildup or if you have any problems with your solute ratio.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that a decline in ppm through flowering is the same as flushing.
That is not what new growers think, that might be your thinking, but not the general consensus.

 

[bigv1976]

Ive said it before and I will say it again. ALL the best growers in the world flush and because of that so do I.

 

[wbd]

why can't you compare freash nugs??? LOL why is it not Fair, is it because it dont back up your theory?

Back up *my* theory?

The only theory I have is called WHO GIVES A SHIT? I've flushed, not flushed, it makes no difference in the end so I choose not to. Simpler is better. That's me though, you do what you want.

But if you're smoking fresh nugs, why even participate in a discussion that involves improving the final product? Fresh nugs are disgusting, flushed or not. If you think otherwise, you've never tasted good pot. I mean, why not flush at 4 weeks and then quick dry some buds in the microwave and compare those? An equally pointless comparison...

 

[SimonD]

ALL the best growers in the world flush...

How do you know?

Simon

 

[cannawizard]

#welcome.to.Fail.Train...

 

[rocknratm]

isnt denounce a negative descriptive word?

anyway if you read my babbling, I support that it is necessary in some cases. Mine, not so much, I try not to use too much nutes, nothing on the very synthetic side (FF trio, I think its close enough to organic, not completely anyways...).
But read what I posted. There are applications in which flushing will help. But its not always needed. Depends on the situation

just getting back to check this.... fucking edit removed denounce in his post.

 

[SirLancelot]

Ive said it before and I will say it again. ALL the best growers in the world flush and because of that so do I.

wow your friends with all of them? and are there during harvest? that's pretty tight. Like I've noted before If I was entering a bud into a competition and they asked if it was flushed I would just say it was that way people who don't know automatically think it's shit because someone else told them flushed is better.