Zaehet Strife
Well-Known Member
beautifully written, thank you outlaw, very inspirational +rep
Reasons to Live
- Thread starter Zaehet Strife
- Start date
darkdestruction420
Well-Known Member
If i had been in a more pessimistic mood when i responded i think you summed up what i would of wrote pretty well. i like the i live because i dont feel like dying part especially as thats how i kinda feel sometimes.
smoothforyou2
Active Member
probably family friends and work thats the meat and potatoes then there all the fun shit also that keeps you going
Brick Top
New Member
Since I believe that when you die, you die, that's the end of everything, there is zero, zip, nada after that, nothingness, nonexistence, period, thee end. With that belief living sure beats the alternative. Who would need more of a reason than that? Any more reasons like love and family and things would just be the icing on the cake that made the most important reason of utmost importance.
If I am wrong and if there is some afterlife, and say it is like the Biblical Heaven and Hell, well even though few will care to admit to themselves that they have led a life that will land them in Hell, but with that being the case, then again, living sure beats the alternative.
If someone would be Heaven bound, again assuming it exists, then every night before going to bed they should pray for a heart attack or something to take them in their sleep because then they would find themselves in a paradise so magnificent that it would make all the things we love here on earth seem trivial. Someone could argue that it would mean separation from a wife and maybe children or grandchildren, but it would also in many cases mean a reunion with a mother and father and grandmother and grandfather, assuming again that they made it through the pearly gates, and also many other rels the person never had chance to meet and a massive number of famous extremely interesting people from throughout history. And since we would be talking about all eternity, the 5, 10, 20, 50 or 80 or whatever number of years someone might be separated from loved ones here on earth would be like a blink of an eye in comparison, once again assuming they made it in, and then they would have all eternity together.
Given those three scenarios, living beats the alternative two out of three times, so just remaining alive regardless of anything else in life would be the primary reason to remain alive as long as possible.
If someone believes in reincarnation then things like love, loved ones etc. could be a primary reason to live. Since you would be coming back there likely would be no guarantee you would be around the same loved ones in another life, and if you were it seems evident that you wouldn't know it, so clinging to what is of most importance in each person's life would then become the main reason to live.
But then there is the belief that if you live a good life you will return in some elevated state, and I don't mean something like Colorado, but more like have an even nicer more fulfilling life to live than what you had. If so, then checking out early still doesn't sound all that bad.
But if you did not live your life as well as you could, and inside of yourself knew you should, you, according to some beliefs, would come back in some lower sort of existence with more strife possibly illnesses or disabilities to deal with, or maybe even come back as a dung beetle or a tick or a dog or something. If that could be the case, then just remaining alive now would be of utmost importance.
Personally, if I do come back, I want to come back as a seat on an exercycle at some very exclusive women's only health club ... but that's just me.
Brick Top
New Member
While maybe a wrong assumption on my part I took that to mean me, or just one single person and everyone else would be as they are now, mortal and life would be here on earth, or possibly in time extend to space if mankind ever expands into space.
Living forever, even if always at least fairly young and healthy and active might sound appealing to some but I think it would be a horrendous curse. Imagine all the loved ones you would bury, imagine all the strife in the world, all the famine and disease and natural disasters and wars you would witness, or at least know about, and have to live with/deal with.
Imagine seeing things you love vanish forever, even simple things like types of clothes or music or 55 Chevy 2-door hardtops. When enough time passes those things will eventually vanish. Think of all the times you would have to change and in some cases totally rethink things and begin to do things totally different because so much had changed.
This might not be a big deal to many, but if you were like me and, a major lover of animals, where your dogs and cats are furry four legged family members rather than pets or cats and dogs. Imagine how many spectacular loyal loving animals you would lose over time. Just like losing people, losing furry four legged family members can be very painful. A year ago Dec. 5th I buried a tremendous dog, and I remember the date just as I remember the date my mother died, and the same goes with many other furry four legged family members I have had, and when it gets close to the dates they died, I miss them and feel sad.
What if some natural disaster or war wiped out most or all the population on the planet, or the species just died out for whatever reason, and you were all alone or at least no one close enough that you would ever see them. It could be extremely lonely ... and where would you shop for food and what would you do for entertainment? You said never die, but you did not say free from all illnesses or physical problems. What if all alone or almost totally alone you needed a dentist, or you broke a leg and couldn't set it yourself and it healed wonky and it was difficult to keep yourself fed?
The deeper you think about the negative possibilities the more of a curse it would seem to be. You could be optimistic and believe you would live to and well beyond the 'Star Trek' years and see and learn all sorts of keen things and learn things you never imagined, but then TV shows and movies tend to be written where in the end humanity manages to come out pretty well, and in reality that might not be the case.
While it would not be a case of living forever your question made me think of an old Twilight Zone episode with Wally Cox. He was a little guy who wore think glasses and his two passions in life were peace and quiet and reading. He worked in a bank and while in the vault there was an 'atomic war,' as they were called in that era, and he was the only survivor. After getting over the initial shock he realized that for him it was great, no people, no noise, no distractions and he went to what was left of the library and picked up a book and with a big smile he went to read it. He pulled out his glasses and found that they were broken and he could not read anymore. Suddenly being all alone wasn't as wonderful as it had seemed up until a few moments ago.
To be gone, as if you never existed, no thought process, no nothing would, to me, be preferable to living forever if I were the only one who would live forever. Regardless of what good things the future might hold, and for as long as it might continue, you would eventually wish for death and believe it would be a blessing.
Brick Top
New Member
I could relate to that, but I don't drive around, I go to www.erosguide.com and then make a call or two ... but your statement relies on someone having the same consciousness and the same thought process and the same desires after death as before rather than just be like a light that is turned off, unplugged and the bulb removed.
ThE sAtIvA hIgH
Well-Known Member
take extasy or speed and put this on then you will know the reason for living http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFeA0FsK4ig
Zaehet Strife
Well-Known Member
man this is so awesome! thank you everyone for all the replies i love and respect everyone's opinion... cept maybe for the money bitches and weed guy lol, but i dont like to judge, so its cool brah hehehe! thanks again guys this stuff was so much fun to read!
darkdestruction420
Well-Known Member
damnit, i just fucking spent 25 minutes typing out a post trying to discuss bricktop and others views and a hypothetical situation ive contemplated that it made me remember and somehow the fucking autosave went and brought back a post from earlier in the thread while removing the stuff i had typed out. the undo button. damnit damnit damnit! im so stupid, that post that was lost could of been brought back if i had refreshed and clicked the restore autosave option since it was the last one autosaved. typing out this post made it the new autosaved content.
Well. i'll just sum it up i suppose, dont feel like typing it all out. Bricktop, those are some great thoughts or whatever you want to call them. Me and my little brother would often discuss stuff like this when drinking. people who believe in the paradise after death of their religion should want to die and go there immediatley.
I think the worst outcome possible would be an afterlife but one where you do not recieve the answers why/enlightenment and no heaven or hell or any sign of god or a devil or meaning. An eternity of not knowing would be far worse than just the simple darkness of death if their was no afterlife(then again if you could focus on the world and keep your thoughts together watching the world evolve might not be so bad for a while but i think you'd probably go through stages of madness and clarity forever)
If religions were to be correct and their is a god/gods of some sort and a paradise i personally dont think their would be a hell(well, not a permanent inescapable one. ) or devil. Sometimes to be honest i wish i could still blindly follow/believe religion like some people do. its hard sometimes to think of different things like my parents dying and being reunited with other people i love and how it seems unfair almost that we humans get only a bit over 100 yrs max when you look at how long we have yet the timescale of the world/universe is so so so much longer. also when you consider how fast our technologies have been improving lately and how quickly we've advanced in just the last 10 yrs even the thought of 1000 yrs in the future is mindboggling.
Well. i'll just sum it up i suppose, dont feel like typing it all out. Bricktop, those are some great thoughts or whatever you want to call them. Me and my little brother would often discuss stuff like this when drinking. people who believe in the paradise after death of their religion should want to die and go there immediatley.
I think the worst outcome possible would be an afterlife but one where you do not recieve the answers why/enlightenment and no heaven or hell or any sign of god or a devil or meaning. An eternity of not knowing would be far worse than just the simple darkness of death if their was no afterlife(then again if you could focus on the world and keep your thoughts together watching the world evolve might not be so bad for a while but i think you'd probably go through stages of madness and clarity forever)
If religions were to be correct and their is a god/gods of some sort and a paradise i personally dont think their would be a hell(well, not a permanent inescapable one. ) or devil. Sometimes to be honest i wish i could still blindly follow/believe religion like some people do. its hard sometimes to think of different things like my parents dying and being reunited with other people i love and how it seems unfair almost that we humans get only a bit over 100 yrs max when you look at how long we have yet the timescale of the world/universe is so so so much longer. also when you consider how fast our technologies have been improving lately and how quickly we've advanced in just the last 10 yrs even the thought of 1000 yrs in the future is mindboggling.
Brick Top
New Member
I absolutely HATE when I write something long, which is most everything I write, and it ends up lost. About a week ago I had just finished writing a "War and Peace" length response to someone and just as I was about to click submit reply my electricity went out. There was a crew from the electric company that came to update a transformer a little ways up the road from me. I was without power for 5 1/2 hours and by then I had forgotten half of what I had said, and it was good stuff, and had lost interest in attempting to duplicate it.
To someone with very deep religious beliefs I am sure that this will sound terrible, but to me if there is a Heaven and if all someone did there for eternity was to praise God and sing hymns etc., that would be like Hell to me.
To me what would make Heaven, Heaven would be if you could be with all your loved ones who made it in, and all your pets, and be in whatever setting or setting where you had the best times of your lives. Like maybe a recreation of an old lake cottage where you all gathered on summer weekends and maybe like Christmas Eve at Grandmas house etc. where you could all be together in your favorite places where you had the very best times of your lives and keep having more and more great times for all eternity.
The knowledge part of what you mentioned brought me back to my childhood upbringing when I went to a Lutheran school and was propagandized. If I remember right, at least according to the teachings of the Lutherans, after the judgement and everyone is where they will spend eternity, all those who made it into Heaven would then have equal knowledge as God.
Now you have to admit that would be cool beans. You would know how everything came to be and every event that ever took place and who thought what and said what and did what. Everyone would know the full truth behind who killed JFK! You would know every thought anyone and everyone ever had about you, both good or bad, but you would be in a state of bliss so anything anyone said or did that was bad, you would instantly forgive them and it wouldn't bother you in the least if you found that your uncle poked your wife an hour before your wedding or if your mother thought you were an asshole or something. It wouldn't matter. But you would find unimaginable pleasure in learning all about who really cared for you, who liked you, who loved you, who said good things about you, etc. It would be like being hit with a tsunami of love. You would know if there was life on other planets, and if so what type and how advanced. You would know why black hole exist and what is on the other side of them, if anything. Every single bit of knowledge that ever existed, and that means an eternity of knowledge since God is allegedly without beginning and without end, would be yours. You would know what, if anything existed before the creation of everything we know. Think about the Big Bang for a moment, gasses and dusts and stuff gathered and something set off a 4th of July like never before. OK, if the Big Bang began it all, then where did the dust and gasses and stuff come from if before that there was nothingness? You would know the answer!
I have no way of knowing if it is true or not but I once saw an expert on ancient languages speak and he said that Hell, as in the Biblical Hell, was the creation of man due to there not being a word or words that matched the original language the part of the Bible tells of Hell.
His claim was that in the original language the word used for Hell was a pit that was commonly just outside of villages where trash would be burned and also people's bodies if they did not have someone who would bury them. He claimed that the original meaning was that all would come to an end, that you would return to ash like Adam was allegedly made from and that was it. It would be as if your body was burned and there was no longer a body or thought process, as if you never existed. But in translation there were no words to equal that, though the fire part could be translated, so someone decided to make it into an eternity in a burning Hell and since then it has been accepted as being the word of God rather than someone making up something to fill in a gap that a language the Bible was being translated to at the time did not have equivalent words to use to retain the original writing.
Where I began to have my doubts, that later turned to something of a resentment, is also based on my religious upbringing. We were taught that God is omniscient. We were also taught that omniscient does not mean that he just knows things when they happen, but instead that at all times he has always known everything, not only past and present but also the future.
If so, consider this. God and his Angels fight Lucifer for control of Heaven God and his gang wins. God creates Hell and casts Lucifer and his minions into Hell. Later God creates the universe and then he creates the Garden of Eden but figures someone should enjoy it so he created Adam. Then figuring that Adam would get lonely and horny and sit around jerking off half the time God creates Eve so Adam can have a companion and the two can have sex and start the human species.
But in this wonderful garden God creates one single tree that he tells Adam and Eve that they cannot eat the fruit of. They can munch out on everything else, and I like to believe there were many wonderful pure sativa strains there myself, but they cannot eat the fruit of one single tree.
OK, go back to God knowing everything, even before it happens. That means he knew the Devil would tempt Eve to eat the fruit and she would then convince Adam to nibble some too and paradise would come to an end and sickness and suffering and hatred and sin and weeds, like indica strains, would begin to grow and people would kill each other and in time anything from tribes to a politically divided world would war with each other and there wold be famines and everything would basically turn to shit.
Why would God set a trap that he had to know that Eve would be caught in and that she would then pull in Adam if he really wanted what the Bible calls his favorite and most loved of all creations to be able to live in paradise?
Now if Hell, the Biblical Hell, exists, why would he ever do anything that would cause, or just risk, that sin would become part of human's lives and that some of his favorite most loved creations would end up in a burning seas of fire for all eternity?
Go back to the Lucifer - God battle. When God and his team won and God created Hell and Cast Lucifer and his minions in why didn't God make it a one way door, or just toss them in and seal them in for all eternity so the Devil could not later pay Eve a visit and tempt her, knowing that the Devil would succeed resulting in the destruction of paradise?
Another thing. God is said to be all loving, all merciful and all forgiving, but yet because he did not keep paradise from being destroyed when he had to know it would happen he allowed sin to begin resulting in some non-believers, and for being a non-believer he will cast some of his favorite most loved of all creations into eternal torment. If he is so cruel and cold hearted that he can do that, why instead could he not just kill off Lucifer and his minions after they tried the coup to take over Heaven, or at the very least seal them in Hell so they could not later destroy paradise?
What's more, God knows that the Devil will be back and fuck things up ever worse than they already are. The Bible tells of Lucifer fighting God one more time and starting what people assume will be WWIII resulting in a major percentage of the population dying off. God knows that he will kick Lucifer's ass again, but why give Lucifer a rematch when it will be God's favorites, his most loved of all creations that will be massacred in the fight? Why did God chose to give the Devil a rematch and hold it here on earth among the human race? If they have to duke it out again why don't they meet on the other side of a black hole or something? It makes no sense the way God has handled, dealt with, the Devil, according to the Bible anyway. It certainly is not how the most intelligent being ever to exist would have handled Lucifer.
To me that all adds up to God intentionally setting a trap that he knew would cause the downfall of man and the end of paradise resulting in the thousands and thousands and however many more number of years the world will exist to be rife with every imaginable bad thing that has ever existed or will ever exist.
To me that make him appear to be a coldblooded sick sadistic bastard who wanted, who intended every single bit of suffering in the entire history of mankind to occur. It is as if we are his little ant farm and when he gets bored he raps on the glass or shakes it and then watches two or more factions go to war and he sits back and watches the bullets fly, the bombs drop, the mushroom clouds fill the sky and see the dead, at times way up in the many millions, heaped on the ground, buried in mass graves, buried under ruble, torn to bits and rotting etc., or a tsunami or earthquake occurs devastating massive areas killing and injuring large numbers of his alleged favorite and most loved of all creations. Are we his version of TV? Are we here for his amusement, for his entertainment, which is suffering and death?
Or did he just start everything and lay a trap and then get bored with what he made and walk away leaving mankind like a rudderless ship trapped in a hurricane, and he just doesn't give a shit, and he didn't give a shit when he set things up and knew this is how things would turn out?
And one more thing that got me is the Bible claims we have free will, we chose our path in life, we make decisions for ourselves. But if God knew everything we will ever decide and do in our entire lives do we really have free will?
If God has always known that after I finish this message I will pick up a gun and go across the street and up a ways to the house of my last lunachick heart breaker and her husband and kids and murder them all, do I possess the power, the ability to change my mind and watch porn and jerkoff instead? If I could do that then I would prove God to be wrong, I would prove that God is fallible, and the Bible and religious teachings of all sorts say that it impossible, that God is perfect, that God is incapable of being wrong, that God never has or will make a mistake, that God is infallible. So that would mean I would not be pulling my pud and instead pulling a trigger ... and it would also mean that I do not in fact have free will because it wold be impossible for me to do anything other than what God already knew I would do. I couldn't pause and thing, ah, what the heck, I'll let then enjoy one more Christmas and maybe even one last New Year's Eve together and then I'll watch all the football games and the Winter Classic on New Years Day and on the 2nd I'll blow their brains all over their walls .. or maybe even figure I'll just give them a pass and let them live.
If God knows every single thing we are going to do before we do it, as I was taught in Lutheran school and in Sunday school and in church, then we do not have free will and instead our lives are predestined. If they are not predestined then we could do something that wold make God do a double take and say, wow, I never saw that one coming! Or the day after Judgement Day God could find himself saying, HOLY DOG SHIT! Brick Top, how the h-e double hockey sticks did you manage to get into Heaven? I was positive with the way you lead your life that you didn't stand a snowballs chance in Hell. Of God could be walking around looking for some Pope or Mother Teresa and not be able to find them, so he peeks down into Hell and sees them screaming in torment and says, well I'll be damned. I would have bet my left nut that the Pope, or Mother Teresa, would easily make it into Heaven.
Those things cannot happen because we are unable to make such decisions that would fool God, that would make us do and be and end up contrary to what God already knew how each and every one of us would turn out and end up ions before he created the universe and this planet.
So if God exists, as the Bible describes/defines him, he is a sick heartless evil hateful perverted sadistic bastard and we lack free will.
Additional:
I expect that someone will say, God does not decide what someone does and then make them do it. He only knows what choices they will make due to free will before they make them, so therefore we do have free will.
But I still maintain that regardless of if God or natural forces or whatever did or did not write our lives in advance and or did or did not direct us through them, as long as we are incapable of altering something we will do and deciding to do something else and that be something different than God already knew we would do, then we do not have real true free will. We are locked into doing whatever God knows we will do. If God exists, as described/defined by the Bible, then every thought and action of our entire life is carved in stone and is unalterable, unchangeable and unerasable, and that is not the definition of free will.
Thus endeth the lesson.
Merry Christmas!
Zaehet Strife
Well-Known Member
thanks brick, merry christmas!!