For believers in the paranormal

PbHash

PbHash

Active Member
I guess what I'm getting at slowly is I think we would see traces of evidence of their use of energy right? Humans give off heat. I mean for fucks sake we can detect black holes which are as close to undetectable as it really gets when you think about it.
 
olylifter420

olylifter420

Well-Known Member
when would you know they are using energy?




PbHash said:
I guess what I'm getting at slowly is I think we would see traces of evidence of their use of energy right? Humans give off heat. I mean for fucks sake we can detect black holes which are as close to undetectable as it really gets when you think about it.
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PbHash

PbHash

Active Member
olylifter420 said:
you said that they would leave a trail, like humans leave a heat trail when burning energy, now how would you know this ghost is consuming energy for it to be visible?
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This is basic science, to do work you need energy. Examples of things that don't use energy are, rocks or plastic. These are inanimate objects, no concsiousness.
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
The point is, if ghosts were using energy, it could be detected. Being measurable is a necessary criteria of energy. So either ghosts do not involve energy(meaning they do not do any work), or else they use an unknown energy that breaks the fundamental laws of the universe. Considering that we have no solid rationale for suspecting this energy, it is a huge assumption to make. The prudent thing is to first look for natural explanations for ghost phenomena. This means actually investigating and attempting to explain, rather than just assuming ghosts are not real thus any evidence for them is not real.

This concept is discussed at length in this interview with Joe Nickell

http://castroller.com/Podcasts/ForGoodReason/2291702

What evidence do we have that leads us to suspect ghosts? What arrows are there pointing us in the direction of spirits? If there are no evidential reasons to believe in ghosts, then why does the concept exist? Why does the belief transcend race, geography, era, upbringing, ect. and persist to this day? I am interested in everyone's answers.
 
PbHash

PbHash

Active Member
Heisenberg- very well said. I'm sad that it seems so many people have such a bad grasp on the basic laws of our universe
 
olylifter420

olylifter420

Well-Known Member
I know that, an you should know if this ghost you speak were to use up energy,there would be some sort of heat trail. But hey,some havea limited understanding of universal las right?




QUOTE=PbHash;6847723]This is basic science, to do work you need energy. Examples of things that don't use energy are, rocks or plastic. These are inanimate objects, no concsiousness.[/QUOTE]
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
PbHash said:
Heisenberg- very well said. I'm sad that it seems so many people have such a bad grasp on the basic laws of our universe
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Thanks. I get sad at times, exasperated, but I find the crowd here to be more or less receptive and I enjoy sorting through the myths with them. Ignorance can not only be forgiven, but remedied, unless it is willful, in which case it is contemptible. It's been about a year since we had a good ghost discussion, I look forward to the practice.
 
PbHash

PbHash

Active Member
We need more critical thinkers. I'm glad most people here are civil. I try to keep my cool when I get frustrated in explaining such things. The only people I will go cut throat and attack are antivaccine people. Those people have blood on their hands!
 
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Let me play devil's advocate. We say we should be able to detect it but how? Dark energy was only recently inferred to exist because of it's affect at a cosmological scale yet if our understanding of the universe is so far correct, who knows what else can be out there at previously undetectable levels? My problem is the overall lack of evidence that apparitions are not due to more worldly explanations and most EVPs to me are no better than the apophenia that is virtually identical to backmask messages heard in rock songs.
 
PbHash

PbHash

Active Member
Mindphuk- you are spot on about us as humans having a limited knowlege and there is lots left to discover. There are just certain thing that with a little critical thinking, can be ruled as so improbable that it is really not worth wasting time on. This to me is especially true when bad science is used and good science proves it's fallacies.

I think that the average persons idea of a ghost is some sort of spirit that is what is left behind after one dies. But they give little though as to how this could even work, like the ghost needing a source of energy.
 
Hepheastus420

Hepheastus420

Well-Known Member
mindphuk said:
Let me play devil's advocate. We say we should be able to detect it but how? Dark energy was only recently inferred to exist because of it's affect at a cosmological scale yet if our understanding of the universe is so far correct, who knows what else can be out there at previously undetectable levels? My problem is the overall lack of evidence that apparitions are not due to more worldly explanations and most EVPs to me are no better than the apophenia that is virtually identical to backmask messages heard in rock songs.
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That's what I was trying to say....I just didn't feel like typing lol. nice job mindphuk.
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
mindphuk said:
Let me play devil's advocate. We say we should be able to detect it but how? Dark energy was only recently inferred to exist because of it's affect at a cosmological scale yet if our understanding of the universe is so far correct, who knows what else can be out there at previously undetectable levels? My problem is the overall lack of evidence that apparitions are not due to more worldly explanations and most EVPs to me are no better than the apophenia that is virtually identical to backmask messages heard in rock songs.
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Of course we can't rule out an inexplicable energy, but there is no motivation to go there. We have no valid models predicting ghost energy, which makes it an unsupported assumption. Throw in natural explanations, and it becomes an unnecessary assumption as well. Dark energy fills a hole, gets us closer to an answer, while ghost energy gets us further into mystery, and for no reason, which makes it special pleading. The idea that ghost energy might be undetectable is intriguing, but does not amount to evidence either way, it only brings up another aspect of ghosts for which there is no evidence.
 
PbHash

PbHash

Active Member
The idea that ghost energy is undetectable is stupid! For a human being to detect a ghost with today's technology the energy form has to be one we know of. The reason I know a human is infront of me is photons bouncing off of the person so I can see them, heat signature, sound all of these are energy.

It is a logical fallacy to think a ghost could have undetectable energy. If it is undetectable that means you can never see it, smell it, hear it, touch it and much less fucking talk to it.
 
olylifter420

olylifter420

Well-Known Member
Why is not a logical fallacy to believe ghosts exist, yet a believer is bashed for believing in God?

Just a question, no vs. Agenda
 
Zaehet Strife

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
nowadays, everyone is starting to make up their own definition of what god is... if you ask me its getting quite out of hand.

i think to answer that question, you must define what your definition of god is.
 
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