Ear Wax
- Thread starter fdd2blk
- Start date
Sk306
Well-Known Member
I don't mean to tell you your wrong or anything, but i've never had any type of bud that we get around here to not turn into budder and wax up. Kush's especially usually wax up fast and almost always golden.. Anyways. Looks like your getting there FDD, trial and error. yours looks the exact same as mine while i whip it play with temp and the amount of time your whip for. goodluck
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
I feel that. Very frustrating indeed.i don't know how to make it.
i have tried numerous times and failed. i try whipping and stirring and heating and warm water and everything my buddy told me to do. it just melts back into oil.
i hate when i can't do things.
this is my buddies, i want to make it just like this ... View attachment 1895878View attachment 1895879
but i can't because i keep failing.
washedmothafuka
Well-Known Member
Try doing some smaller batches. When purging that much oil at once, it can tend to auto butter on you. As for those dishes...I don't think I could get myself to smoke the left or middle dish. Why is it greyish black?
Also @coopnuts, there is a lot more too it that sativa and indica as i have learned. Just some food for thought.
Originally Posted by Squiggly
To my eyes as an organic chemist the "budder" is nothing more than side reactions with terpenes and cannabinoids--in the form polymerizations, hydrations, oxidations, and epoxidations.
It is known that terpenes react very easily in open air--and as we all know whipping (when done in air) is nothing more than incorporating air into a medium. You can probably test this by splitting a batch of oil and whipping one in air, and using a stir bar to "whip" the other under vacuum (same temperature). You will still get some polymerizations potentially but not as likely as these typically happen with terpenes (and other alkenes) under increased, rather than reduced, pressure.
Furthermore you will have pulled proteins and amino acids out with an oil extraction, and these are known to react with oxygen containing terpenes. The list goes on an on.
Something that is important to understand is that C-C pi bonds (double bonds, but specifically the p orbitals of the "second" bond) are quite reactive--some of the most readily reacting materials on the planet excluding those which produce absolutely violent reactions (and some of these do as well). Addition reactions occur across these bonds with a litany of substances; In fact, additions across double bonds are what cause these chemicals to come to be in the first place (through many additions of isoprene units). Many times only a catalytic amount of a given impurity must be present to set off a polymerization chain reaction (not to be confused with PCR, polymerase chain reaction). Believe me when I say that I'm not overstating this.
I believe many of these terpenes actually self assemble and fold into their various odiferous forms during the curing process--this should demonstrate to you that these are reactive substances as these foldings and additions are non-enzymatic and occur spontaneously.
Furthermore, it would be expected that as you increase carbon chain length (polymerization takes care of this) and saturate carbon bonds (add across double bonds) you will expect to see oils become more opaque, and increasingly firm. This is, in fact, the precise difference between saturated fatty acids such as stearic acid (animal fat) and unsaturated fatty acids like oleic acid (olive oil).
Exposure to any of the following will more than likely lead into degradation/polymerization of terpenes through various pathways:
--Heat
--Oxidants (air)
--Acidic/basic conditions
--Free Radicals (atoms/molecules with an unpaired electron/open shell)
Even a single molecule of ozone can produce significant results with terpenes--leading into a long chain of possible side reactions.
It is almost certain that buddering is not desireable. I would more quickly smoke the butane than wonder about what chemicals I may have just produced by that process.
I'm sure you mean elaborate, and so I shall.
Polymerization is a process by which monomers (similar subunits) are linked together to form a polymer (poly meaning many and mono meaning one).
Terpenes are known to polymerize under certain conditions. Most alkenes (C-C double bond is an alkene functional group) are fairly reactive, but terpenes are made up of special monomers called isoprene, or isoprenoid, units (isoprene is short for isoterpene).
Under various conditions, not the least of which being presence of air and heat--previously stable terpenes may begin to break apart/link together in a way not dissimilar to the linking together of isoprenoid units. A polymerization of polymers if you will.
In addition to this terpenes are known to react with various compounds to give new compounds (in the case of ozone for example). Google terpenes ozone and do some digging if you want to see how complex this can get in terms of side reactions--this reaction can give a hydroxyl radical which can go on to do all types of nasty shit.
In general I'm saying stuff doesn't just change color and consistency from losing less than a mL of solvent and a little heat. A reaction is occuring.
In terms of elaborating on the possible danger/non-danger. I can't. No one really can--this stuff amounts to a chemical soup in terms of how many compounds are present. You get to doing side reactions/polymerizations in a chemical soup and you could end up with some fairly terrible results. As a for instance, adding only 3 reactants in a research lab once left me with maybe 100 different compounds at the end of a reaction where an impurity had caused side reactions to take place. The NMR looked black clear across!
Now consider that there may already be 100's of compounds present in an extract.
I'm not trying to say its certainly unsafe--but it could potentially be creating carcinogens and other nasty things. I'm ultimately saying sans a lab and lots of fancy testing we won't know or even come close to knowing. Even then this could be on a plant to plant basis in terms of deciding whether this process is safe. Each plant has different relative levels of terpenes and cannabinoids and different terpene profiles. That changes reaction conditions and confounds analysis.
This could also be a hydration reaction, as some terpenes are known to complex with water to create--I believe--a trihydrate. This would be considerably less dangerous. Testing this might be easier. Weigh a beaker (with stirrer and oil already in) on an analytical scale. Whip up a batch. Re-weigh.
There should be a noticeable difference in weight if hydration is occuring. (depending on the mechanism the same will be true for oxidation)
And.....
"This thread is simply being made out of the necessity to inform the oil vapers on TC who have been making budder about the terrible crimes they have been committing. Recently there has been a huge influx of BHO and oil is exploding in general, as well there has been a huge rise in the amount of people specifically buddering up there BHO,which is the biggest no no in the book. Sure some of you will take this as hating, others will ridicule this thread. But the majority of legit oil vapors will fully back me on this.
Budder, which is whipped BHO is criminal. Budder is an completely unstable version of oil and should be completely frowned upon when it rather celebrated about.
When Oil is in the budder state it is degrading at unreal rate compared to shatter. Oil is always degrading but when in the budder state it is MUCH faster. What this means is your oil is losing valuable terpenes. Your oil is losing its , FLAVOR, POTENCY, FUNK and bottom end KICK. People think oh my oil stinks so much it must be the greatest oil in the world. No that's just your oil dieing.
Besides the fact that your oil is dieing. BUDDER IS A BITCH Shatter, Rock, Hard, Clear, maybe softer... whatever state other than budder is 1000x easier to deal with. Oil sits in your dish if its soft ya just dab a hit beautifully. If the oil is rock hard, simply place the oil dish behind your torch as its heating ur ti, it very very gently melts and you dab a hit out of the candy. When dabbing budder your dealing with crumbs. Little pieces of cakey cookie like pieces of shit. They dont attach to the dabber. They dont stay on the dabber. It makes it impossible to accurately dab a proper hit, and is just a pain in the ass. Alot of people will say, just quickly torch your dish and it will melt and then dab. But then your killing off valuable terps and ruining your oil your self! I cannot stress enough how much dabbing and dealing budder is compared to stable oil.
Have you guys ever ran oil in the rain? Or maybe spilt a little water in ur dish somehow? Have u vaped oil with water in it? Well it sucks, it sizzles, tastes like shit, ruins the oil. Oil that auto budders does so because there is moister in it, this is BAD. Purge to short, BUDDER. Purge to long BUDDER. Budder is NOT good. I basicly am trying to inform those out there who are buddering there own oil up TO STOP! As a rule of thumb, stable oil will last 3 weeks before degrading to the point of the return but use 2 weeks as marker if you can. Budder has just a few days less than can be counted on one hand b4 its past its expiration date.
As sort of proof budder is a degraded version of stable oil. Take the kut pipe for instance or any oil setup. When reclaim gets stuck in the bell it completely resembles the characteristics of stable oil, just darker and runnier. Then look at the reclaim that makes it thru the bell into the body of the unit. The reclaim is now budder which is 100% the result that the moisture is causing the degrade of stable oil. That is because it has degraded. Only further proof that budder is a sub par degraded version of oil.
Closing. I have not even come close to delving into the scientific nature on auto budder, moister, etc. I am no scientist and do not want to talk out of my ass. Hopefully the points I bring across are enough to convince some of you budders to stop.
This thread has been made in no way to offend, segregate, poke fun or mud sling the differences between the 2. I hope to educate, and bring some sanity back to the oil world
"
Finshaggy
Well-Known Member
That can't be true...
Unless "Self life" is only in reference to texture, and not potency.
I've been out of bud, and scrapped my Solvent oil tray and BHO tray separately, and BOTH got me high.
And this was after like a month of them sitting in a garage cabinet.
Gastanker
Well-Known Member
Yeah I'm really confused by that statement. I've smoked oil that was over a year old and it still smelled nice, tasted great, and above all got me stoned off my ass.
I use to work in the food oils industry and I know oils don't go bad - they can go rancid but they don't go bad (rancidity cannot make you sick, the largest change is in the flavor profile). But even then it takes years for oils to go rancid if properly stored.
washedmothafuka
Well-Known Member
Yeah I don't agree with that. It was just some more information to throw in here. What I do agree with....is that butter loses its flavor A LOT quicker than a stable errl/oil.
I've never seen black trichomes. I've gotten everywhere from a bright yellow to a dark dark red....but NEVER that black...you must be grinding up your buds or pulling out some other impurities...? Edit: Your newest pictures show it's a lot less black than it looked.i often use hash, kief and 2 year old trim to make my oil. it is darker because the trichs it came from are dark.
the color of the trichomes determines the color of the final product.
if large batches "auto-butter" why isn't mine buttering?
I said large batches tend to auto butter because they get whipped before the butane is purged. And it looked like yours was starting to auto butter in that pyrex...idk.
Whipped bho has a bunch of air in it constantly oxidizing things. Terpenes are very volatile and are released a quicker rate when air is whipped into it. So yeah stable oil will retain its taste, and potency. But we were talking about waxs/budders I thought.
why are people still using plant matter to make BHO?
dry ice it all first, then blast it with butane. i can make 10 grams of oil with half a can of butane, 10 grams of bud and a couple tablespoons of kief. i mix a little bud in as a "filler", but otherwise i'm running 80% kief or hash thru my tube.
dry ice it all first, then blast it with butane. i can make 10 grams of oil with half a can of butane, 10 grams of bud and a couple tablespoons of kief. i mix a little bud in as a "filler", but otherwise i'm running 80% kief or hash thru my tube.
washedmothafuka
Well-Known Member
Quite simple. People don't have massive amounts of kief, and sometimes just want to get a gram of some dank errls.why are people still using plant matter to make BHO?
dry ice it all first, then blast it with butane. i can make 10 grams of oil with half a can of butane, 10 grams of bud and a couple tablespoons of kief. i mix a little bud in as a "filler", but otherwise i'm running 80% kief or hash thru my tube.
Running kief with your buds will by far be the highest yields, but it doesn't change the quality of the final product....simply the amount that is produced. 80% kief is a lot thought. I would think 50/50 would be best. I've seen one run done with 100% kief and the results were...garbage...it just turns into this big mushy mess.
Ahh I see, you used that to make your hash. You should get some whiter kiefy strains. Then your errls will come out perlly amber. loldark amber = black looking. if you look at it thru the light you can see the true color.
ever seen hash before?
View attachment 1982254View attachment 1982255View attachment 1982256
blast 20 grams of that and then tell me what color it is.
the stuff in the pyrex is whipped.
Spray into pyrex sitting in 130-140 degree water. Pop bubbles, scrape up, spread REALLY thin. Pop more bubbles. Continue to purge until I hold pyrex up to the light, and can see through it. Some small bubbles left but most are terpenes. Here are a couple of my runs (sorry if I shouldn't be posting these in the ear wax thread).
Purged 140
Purged 130
jcdws602
Well-Known Member
Hey fdd what do you mean by dry ice it all first?? I use kief but I don't have that much just laying around.......I wish......why are people still using plant matter to make BHO?
dry ice it all first, then blast it with butane. i can make 10 grams of oil with half a can of butane, 10 grams of bud and a couple tablespoons of kief. i mix a little bud in as a "filler", but otherwise i'm running 80% kief or hash thru my tube.
i make dry ice hash with all my trim first. put dry ice and trim in bubble bag and shake inside of a bucket. that's all it takes.
i had 20 pounds of popcorn buds. i'm done to this years bud trim now.
