Guide to Nutrient Deficiency or Toxicity

[Thedillestpickle]

All of the stuff in my list is gunna be touching the plants anyways, but it would sortof be a concentration in that water. I wouldnt want to drink someones evaporated sweat, even if I am already breathing it. but Im not a plant either so its hard to say. I guess most of the really harmfull stuff actually gets killed as soon as it touches the wet/cold AC anyways so it should be fine. I wish I had an infinite amount of plants so I could run tests on all these different variables, who knows, AC water might be the best water around for plants. thundstorms release airborn nitrogen, sounds kinda hokey pokey lol

is there anything wrong with using tap water at 150ppm Ph 7.6 ?
its what Ive been using, evaporated overnight in a tub.

 

[mcbeer6]

This is the BEST advice I've seen so far. Thanks!

 

[nick17gar]

This is the BEST advice I've seen so far. Thanks!

thanks, and welcome to RIU

 

[nick17gar]

All of the stuff in my list is gunna be touching the plants anyways, but it would sortof be a concentration in that water. I wouldnt want to drink someones evaporated sweat, even if I am already breathing it. but Im not a plant either so its hard to say. I guess most of the really harmfull stuff actually gets killed as soon as it touches the wet/cold AC anyways so it should be fine. I wish I had an infinite amount of plants so I could run tests on all these different variables, who knows, AC water might be the best water around for plants. thundstorms release airborn nitrogen, sounds kinda hokey pokey lol

is there anything wrong with using tap water at 150ppm Ph 7.6 ?
its what Ive been using, evaporated overnight in a tub.

7.6 is too alkaline (not acidic) for water. at the same time, most nutrients are nitrogen heavy which is acidic. so what ya do is buy a pH test kit, mix up your batch of nutrient soup/water mix in a bottle/bucket and test the ph. as long as you make it the same way everytime, you know that the ph wont change that much (from the first time ya tested it)

also, buying some pH buffer is great. petstores sell stuff called pH Buffer, and they come in different types (for different fish). tropical fish use 7.0 water, so thats an ok bottle to have, in case your ph is crazy... but if your lucky, your petstore has some for african cichlids, which require 6.5pH water. this is the perfect pH for pot in soil. ive used it every watering now for about 2 years, and have never had pH going into my plants vary more than 6.4-6.6, and the runoff is usually 6.2-6.3 seriously, i paid like 8 bucks, i use about a teaspoon per 2 liters of water+nutrients, and ive never had pH issues. its safe for underwater plants, safe for fish, and ive used it up to a week before harvesting (when i usually stop watering anyways) and havent noticed any odd taste. just the taste of success.


*also, tap water... make sure ya leave it out for a few days to settle, and evaporate off the chems**

 

[MalcolmMustang]

awesome thread thanks OP.

 

[Thedillestpickle]

that fishtank Ph buffer sounds cool, Im doing hydro(coco) so I use pH down to bring it to 5.8, I just wanted to see that the water is good from the beginning, I dont know why I mentioned the pH, what I was really meaning to ask was is 150ppm pretty good for tap water? I think its considered acceptable for plants, Ill keep using it for now, but maybe one day I'll fork out the money for an RO filter... maybe...

Ive got two questions about Nutrients. #1 - Ive seen alot of charts and guides such as this that mention Nitrogen toxicity and provide a picture to help identify it, All the pictures Ive seen show a really dark green but otherwise very healthy looking leaf. Whats wrong with having dark green leaves anyways? Ive never seen any pictures of leaves dying from Nitrogen, Im guessing they burn around the edges and the burn works its way in, starting on the lower leaves(Im not sure why I think that, maybe I did see a picture one?). So whats wrong with a green leaf?

Question #2 Ive seen charts and guides such as this that cover all the deficiencies and burns that are common. What I havent seen is an example of Salt toxicity, but this is a problem I hear about endlessly. Everyone is warning me about salt buildups and it sounds like a really shitty thing to have happen to your plants, so Im just wondering what it looks like, how do you know when you have salt buildup issues with your plants. Im guessing your leaves wilt and stems hang towards the ground(dehydration), but I'm not sure because Ive never seen an example.

Those are my questions, thanks for reading

 

[nick17gar]

nitrogen toxicity begins with a dark green leaf ya, thats a slight abundance, it then moves on to curling the leaf tips downwards, and curls the leaves. eventually, it stuns growths. dark green isnt bad, its what comes after thats bad.

Salt toxicity is burns, its like a pH imbalance mixed with overferting of everything. theres spots on the leaves, the edges, the tips are all burnt. you cant really show pics of salt toxicity becuase usually the salts are complex mixes of too much of lots of elements (which make up the salt). you gotta remember, a 'salt' is the mixture of an acidic and an alkaline substance. seeing as how theres lots of each, the mixes are near endless. table salt (NaCl) is just the one we are used to seeing everywhere. but mixing nitrogen (acid) with something else the plants need (some base, i dunno what they are) create a salt. the key is to keep the amount of salt low enough that the plant can use them, and the rest is in the runoff. we need salt to survive, but a certain amount. think of it as 'trace element' # 17

 

[Thedillestpickle]

nitrogen toxicity begins with a dark green leaf ya, thats a slight abundance, it then moves on to curling the leaf tips downwards, and curls the leaves. eventually, it stuns growths. dark green isnt bad, its what comes after thats bad.

Salt toxicity is burns, its like a pH imbalance mixed with overferting of everything. theres spots on the leaves, the edges, the tips are all burnt. you cant really show pics of salt toxicity becuase usually the salts are complex mixes of too much of lots of elements (which make up the salt). you gotta remember, a 'salt' is the mixture of an acidic and an alkaline substance. seeing as how theres lots of each, the mixes are near endless. table salt (NaCl) is just the one we are used to seeing everywhere. but mixing nitrogen (acid) with something else the plants need (some base, i dunno what they are) create a salt. the key is to keep the amount of salt low enough that the plant can use them, and the rest is in the runoff. we need salt to survive, but a certain amount. think of it as 'trace element' # 17

Ok thanks for the answers, that helps alot. On more questions since I love questions-

Do plants dislike ppm changes? If I were to water with 1000ppm for 3 waterings and then water with straight water for the 4th water(Im using coco), the straight water should help lower my salt buildup, but obviously there will be less nutrients available for about 2 or 3 days. When I go back to 1000ppm am I going to shock the plant by suddenly bringing the ppm back up? This would be the easiest way to control salt buildup I can think of, as long as its not hard on the plants

Thanks alot for the help, sounds like Nitrogen leads to the "Claw"

 

[bigrodz]

Hello, I just started growing and have 2 plants that are about 2 and 1/2 months old. Ive just been watering them and putting a few drops of Superthrive in with it. They were doing ok but ever since i went from fluorescent to hps (400watt) lights they have been going the other way. Temps do get a bit high in the grow area 93 highest, So i started leaving the door open. Still they seem lacking something . Both are close to 33 inches tall, but one has stopped veging almost. Lots of yellowing lower leaves. What I need to know is whats the best Nuts i can use and for what stages. This is my first grow so any and all help is appreciated. And when should a adjust the time and make them flower (normally) when they are healthy. Im thinking of going back to just fluorescent T5 lights becoz they were doing much better then. The room is a closet about 5 x 3 ft. thanks all.

 

[dannyboy602]

how did i miss this thread? nice work. ima copy this and spread the love...rep to you nick17gar

 

[brownie360]

this lil chart and nick17s poster thing totally hit the spot...i been reading online fer days tryn to figure my shit out[iron def]......thanx alot guys

 

[nick17gar]

Hello, I just started growing and have 2 plants that are about 2 and 1/2 months old. Ive just been watering them and putting a few drops of Superthrive in with it. They were doing ok but ever since i went from fluorescent to hps (400watt) lights they have been going the other way. Temps do get a bit high in the grow area 93 highest, So i started leaving the door open. Still they seem lacking something . Both are close to 33 inches tall, but one has stopped veging almost. Lots of yellowing lower leaves. What I need to know is whats the best Nuts i can use and for what stages. This is my first grow so any and all help is appreciated. And when should a adjust the time and make them flower (normally) when they are healthy. Im thinking of going back to just fluorescent T5 lights becoz they were doing much better then. The room is a closet about 5 x 3 ft. thanks all.

Um well 93 degrees is way too hot. plants really dont like anything over 85.
Closets: bad for air circulation, try to leave the doors open, i flower in closets, and that helps a lot
Lower leaves turning yellow: lack of nitrogen (usually)
remember, the bigger they are the more water they need.

and when to switch to flower? thats up to you, but before they have reached half the height of the closet - height of light + a few inches. What do i mean? i mean say your closet is 100 inches (i dunno, im just picking a nice round number). then say your light system is about 10 inches from top to bottom, and your need space between the light + plants, for HID lamps, probably a foot? so that means your down to 78 inches for plant + container. say the pot is 1 foot tall, thats 68 inches left. so.... the MAX height of the plant BEFORE going into flower can be 34 inches (expecting a double in size with flowering) keep in mind, they can triple in size. they can also not stretch more than 5 inches or so if the change of lighting is slow (24/0 -> 20/4 -> 16/8 -> 12/12), and you also have LST available. personally, mine used to triple in size, now i take more time going from 24/0->12/12 and i tie them down like...i dunno, i dont tie anything down really (other then my gf, but thats a dif story). either way, now i get them to around 4ft, and when i switch them to flower, they end up around 6ft. so it really depends how ya do it

@dannyboy602, @brownie360, Thanks! who knew with a big nug and lots of boredom, i could write/start this thread? i still read the first 2 posts often when i forget what this is or that is so i made sure to include as much detail as possible =)

 

[Jimmyjonestoo]

Great thread man + Rep. What's the best way to fix an iron deficiency?

 

[MalcolmMustang]

Great thread man + Rep. What's the best way to fix an iron deficiency?

The only way to fix it is with an iron based fert that I know of. As far as preventing it, avoid having multiple big airstones in your water supply for a long period of time. While you blow the chlorine out of your water the iron is also removed. Keep in mind that could be what is causing it if you are already using hard water.

 

[nick17gar]

yea the other thing is to buy a fertilizer with iron(Fe) in it.

phosphorus also locks out iron, too much phophorus results in low iron. a high pH lowers iron as well. also soil with clay is iron deficient. soil usually has iron in it. if your sure everything is ok, but iron remains low, change out your soil, fresh it up by adding new soil to the old soil, or throw out the old stuff, onto your lawn or something, and go with all fresh soil. (like how farmers rotate crops, they give the soil time to get the minerals back in it)

 

[xMOONx]

I posted these pics on 1/9 on another thread but thought it might help some of the new growers. I only used Humate Supreme tablets & Humate tea on these girls an I'v had "NO PROBLEMS" from start to in bloom now. This is so simple & easy to use (with awesome results)--I will never use anything else. (Saved me lots money too) Hope this helps some of you. I only use CFL for VEG & Bloom.

http://www.humatesupreme.com/store/index.php/humate-supreme/humate-supreme.html

1/9/12
Here are some pics of my WW girls I put on 12/12 yesterday after 7 wks VEG. Only thing I used on them was 1 Humate Supreme tablet (all organic) each plant & watered with Humate Tea. I gave them another HS tab yesterday--hope works as well as first 7 weeks.

 

[BlueB]

Could someone please tell me what the problem with this plant is? It mainly happens on older leaves, then they fall off eventually.

 

[nick17gar]

Could someone please tell me what the problem with this plant is? It mainly happens on older leaves, then they fall off eventually.

View attachment 1992190

thats interesting. the whiteness of those spots makes me wanna scratch my head. do you foliar feed? do you spray water on the plants? if so, then thats light burn, the water acts as a magnifying glass and the light is killing them

whats the pH? and light set up ya got going? what do you feed them

 

[nick17gar]

Could someone please tell me what the problem with this plant is? It mainly happens on older leaves, then they fall off eventually.

View attachment 1992190

thats interesting. the whiteness of those spots makes me wanna scratch my head. do you foliar feed? do you spray water on the plants? if so, then thats light burn, the water acts as a magnifying glass and the light is killing them

whats the pH? and light set up ya got going? what do you feed them

 

[Jimmyjonestoo]

Any ideas? 4 weeks into flower still getting a little nitrogen so I don't think that's it. Maybe zinc? Starts at the tip and works inward. Tips are burnt and curled up. I looked at all the pictures and charts but having a hard time matching it to one.