The Official House and Garden Thread

[ievolution]

I just posted a new threat about this but what do people think about a replacement of Amino Treatment by using a few different products such as a Silica Product and an Amino Acid product like Dark Energy. I purchased 1L of Amino Treatment and it is still VERY expensive. I love the product and have had some of the biggest/healthiest looking plants I've ever had in the 4 years growing with House and Garden but don't see paying 200 dollars every 2 months for 1 nutrient. Dark Energy and a Silica product would be about 50 dollars for both and you would use about 1ml per gal of each. That 50 dollars worth of products would last 4 times as long which sounds very nice too me. Also it has beneficials in it but so does Roots Excelurator and I also use Great White. Any suggestions or comments let me know. If you guys got nothing I will let you guys know how the results are compared to using Amino Treatment.

 

[ievolution]

Thedillestpickle- Damn you still are rocking the insane PPM? I checked my Veg PPM and it is right around 900ppm. I believe it gets up to 1400-1500 PPM at its highest then I lower it A LOT when they get Shooting Powder which is a must. After years of using H&G I have decided to go about 50% of what they say in week 6(8 week flowering) and 25% week 7 and 8. I have also been lowering A more than B because of A having a lot more Nitrogen in it. If you follow their chart your plants will stay Green as possible so I cut it way back starting week 6.

 

[Thedillestpickle]

Just found this on another site

senseless
06-21-2006, 02:30 AM
i think this will help a lot of growers.

ppms are confusing as hell i think. let me try and explain.

ppm is a calculation of EC or CF.

CF= EC multiplied by 10. ex, 1.0ec x 10 = 10CF

ec = CF divided by 10. ex, 10CF divided by 10 = 1.0 EC

the problem with ppm is that its not a standardized way of taking readings so almost every product manufacture has a different way of measuring ppm. in other words thier ppm conversion factor.

a .7 factor is actually called a 442 conversion factor wich is approximately 700 multiplied by EC.

a .5 factor or the NaCl conversion factor wich is approximately 500 multiplied by EC.

depending on wich type of TDS meter you use it will use either a .5 or .7 conversion factor. this is why some people get different readings with different meters.

lets say your nutreint solution was 1.0 EC
using the .7 conversion factor your ppm would be 700.
using the .5 conversion factor your ppm would be 500.

heres a conversion chart i made up,
(EC)------(PPM.5)---------(PPM.7)-------(CF)
.4---------200-------------280-----------4-----seedling/ rooted clones
.6---------300-------------420-----------6-----
.8---------400-------------560-----------8-----veg
1.0--------500-------------700----------10
1.2--------600-------------840----------12
1.4--------700-------------980----------14
1.6--------800-------------1120---------16-----aggressive
1.8--------900-------------1260---------18
2.0--------1000------------1400---------20-----super aggressive
2.2--------1100------------1540---------22
2.4--------1200------------1680---------24-----be carefull after this point!!
2.8--------1400------------1960---------28
3.2--------1600------------2240---------32
3.6--------1800------------2520---------36
4.0--------2000------------2800---------40
4.4--------2200------------3080---------44

This should have its own thread and be a sticky! This post saved my grow

 

[ievolution]

If you are using Coco I have found 8ml of A&B to be the best amount to give per gal in Veg. I give the same amount to my 4 inch plants and my 18 inch plants and they all stay very green and lush with no burn. The most I give during flowering is week 4 and 5 and I get up too 12 then drop it way down in week 6. I am curious of what peoples opinions are of Shooting Powder. I know it isn't my favorite product by H&G and not even very close. I love products like Roots Exc, Drip Clean, and Bud XL. Has any1 found a different bloom booster to be better?

My other question is for people that use the complete line and have for awhile what are your favorite additives/Nutrients to run with H&G? Really the only thing I have ever ran in conjunction with H&G is Great White which every1 should be running with this line. I guess I will be running an Silicate/Amino acid product also here coming up soon as a replacement for Amino Treatment. Does any1 else have replacements for other H&G products they have found to work better?

 

[ievolution]

theDillestpickle- Oh man you didn't know about that whole ordeal? I have seen a lot of people make the same mistake and have a lot of problems. I am glad you caught on so early. So when you were messaging me about your high PPM you had no clue how HIGH it really was. Have you picked up any new products from H&G and dropped the random stuff you were using? I would say it is a good idea until you get this PPM issue fixed. Something is raising your PPM like crazy and I still don't understand it.

 

[Thedillestpickle]

I just posted a new threat about this but what do people think about a replacement of Amino Treatment by using a few different products such as a Silica Product and an Amino Acid product like Dark Energy. I purchased 1L of Amino Treatment and it is still VERY expensive. I love the product and have had some of the biggest/healthiest looking plants I've ever had in the 4 years growing with House and Garden but don't see paying 200 dollars every 2 months for 1 nutrient. Dark Energy and a Silica product would be about 50 dollars for both and you would use about 1ml per gal of each. That 50 dollars worth of products would last 4 times as long which sounds very nice too me. Also it has beneficials in it but so does Roots Excelurator and I also use Great White. Any suggestions or comments let me know. If you guys got nothing I will let you guys know how the results are compared to using Amino Treatment.

Sounds good, I don't know if I can afford that amino treatment, do the two products your combining have what the Amino is supposed to contain? Your results will be a good test to see if its a good substitute

 

[Thedillestpickle]

theDillestpickle- Oh man you didn't know about that whole ordeal? I have seen a lot of people make the same mistake and have a lot of problems. I am glad you caught on so early. So when you were messaging me about your high PPM you had no clue how HIGH it really was. Have you picked up any new products from H&G and dropped the random stuff you were using? I would say it is a good idea until you get this PPM issue fixed. Something is raising your PPM like crazy and I still don't understand it.

hahah yea very insane PPM... I had no idea I was using a .5 conversion meter so Ive been whacking them with almost 1600ppm and they are still in veg! hahaha.... crazy part is they still look healthy? It must be magic

 

[ievolution]

Well Amino Treatment is supposed to be a Silica, Amino Acid, Beneficials product. I use Great White and Roots Exc so Beneficials are taken care of. Structural Integrity from Humboldt Nutrients is a Silica product and Dark energy is a Amino Acid/Vitamin product so from what I understand it should about take care of it. Even if it is missing something I don't think it is worth 4 times the price. That is 1 product I wouldn't recommend you buying especially if you don't have a bunch of extra cash. Even if you did want to get it I would purchase everything else in their line first plus Great White. Don't get me wrong I really liked what Amino Treatment does but there has to be a much cheaper replacement. It is over 4 times as expensive to run than say Roots Exc per gal(if I remember right I did the math a couple months back)

 

[ievolution]

Yeah I have never burned any of my plants with H&G so I am surprised to read so many people having problems with it. Makes me wonder what they are doing because I can go way above Aggressive on H&G feeding chart without burning them. In the years I have been running H&G I have tried plenty of things and some of my plants have taken a very heavy dose of H&G COCO A&B. I mean I have got nearly 2000 PPM in flowering but 1600 PPM in veg is out of control. If I was you I would try to reach 800-1000 at least. I find 900 PPM to be perfect for all my plants because I have so many different sizes in veg that medium spot seems to be perfect for all of them.

 

[Thedillestpickle]

Yeah I have never burned any of my plants with H&G so I am surprised to read so many people having problems with it. Makes me wonder what they are doing because I can go way above Aggressive on H&G feeding chart without burning them. In the years I have been running H&G I have tried plenty of things and some of my plants have taken a very heavy dose of H&G COCO A&B. I mean I have got nearly 2000 PPM in flowering but 1600 PPM in veg is out of control. If I was you I would try to reach 800-1000 at least. I find 900 PPM to be perfect for all my plants because I have so many different sizes in veg that medium spot seems to be perfect for all of them.

well I was trying to go around 1100ppm. actualy I was usually aiming for about 1000ppm but sometimes I would shoot past my target by mixing too much base in and just kinda roll with it... often was mixing around 1100. But now I know that my 1100 at .5 converted to the .7 scale used to calculate H&G nutes means I was actually feeding just under 1600 lol It wasnt that my ppm's were rising, I was just putting them in high from the start. and Yes I do have some burn but thats to be expected... just really happy that my plants were able to pull through 1600 without too much damage. I think unless someone isnt calculating/measuring their ppm's correctly such as I was then they shouldnt have problems burning their plants because I just prooved that vegging plants can withstand 1600ppm

Do you know if my plants could be permanently damaged from the high ppm? they still have 95% of their leaves in good health, actually they look wonderfull besides some mag def and minor burns. I'm just not sure if this kindof stress can effect bud production later down the road?

I think your logic with the Amino is pretty sound, I already have a silica product called Pro-tekt Silica, I have roots excel and multizen. Definately heard nothing but good things about the great white so I will be getting that too. I will get the dark energy as well as this sounds like a pretty good cheaper alternative and a little more hands on approach. Now just need to figure out a cheaper option for the Algen extract! that stuff is expensive like I can't believe lol

 

[ievolution]

Algen Extract is fairly cheap honestly. You use 1 ML per gal in Veg so really it is less than 10 cents per gallon which IDK if you will find another product as good or as cheap. I would save up my money and get it. Algen Extract used to be a lot cheaper but you used 4 times as much. They made it much more concentrated and raised the price. I really like Algen Extract and will always stick with that one. I know the initial price is a bit much and you can probably find another product for 1/4 of the price and use anywhere from 4 to 8 times as much so in the long run you will get a better product for the same price or cheaper per gallon. That will always be a product I will have in my room along with most of the others from House and Garden. I am debating trying an alternative for Shooting Powder and have already bought the replacements for Amino Treatment in Structural Integrity and Dark Energy.

 

[ievolution]

I was just reading about Algen Extract and it seems to be similar to Dark Energy actually. It also has Vitamins and Amino Acids in it. I wonder if they are too similar and I shouldn't use it. Never saw that about Algen Extract :/. So there you go that may be a viable replacement for Algen Extract if you wanted something cheaper. You use 2.5 ML per gal of Dark Energy so you do use a bit more but it is about half as much for quart.

 

[ievolution]

Sorry about the repeated posts. I am having a hard time figuring out if Dark Energy is too similar to Algen Extract to use. If anything I will just use it as a replacement for Algen Extract when that bottle runs out. I mean what Dark Energy claims to do makes me believe it is pretty much just a kelp/Fulvic nutrient which I believe Algen extract is. If any1 has any info regarding this please let me know. I don't want to overdo anything. It makes me wonder because Algen Extract and Amino Treatment must be pretty similar besides the beneficials and Silica in Amino Treatment. Once again these companies never can say too much or don't want to so it is really hard to tell.

 

[Thedillestpickle]

Yup, only way to find out what works is to do side by side grows

 

[Bloomingdale81]

Just watch you pH. The thing about H&G is that using the whole line is very pH Stable and substituting things will decrease pH stability. I used a free sample of AT this time for 2 feedings and I did notice a stalk diameter increase. It's expensive, but not if you kill it!

Algen is only sold in liter bottles around here, which makes it like $100 for a bottle. The shit is messy in a res so I only topwater it now. I didn't see that much improvement in using it anyways.

Shooting Powder seems to mix better than MOAB, I am liking it so far

 

[ievolution]

I'm curious if any1 has experience running H&G Base Nutrients with other flowering additives. If so what kind? I've used H&G for so long I wanted to stick with their Base Coco Nutes and try out some additives to replace BudXL and Shooting Powder. I may still run Budxl because it is basically an Enzyme.

 

[Thedillestpickle]

I'm curious if any1 has experience running H&G Base Nutrients with other flowering additives. If so what kind? I've used H&G for so long I wanted to stick with their Base Coco Nutes and try out some additives to replace BudXL and Shooting Powder. I may still run Budxl because it is basically an Enzyme.

I think you mentioned earlier that H&G has too much nitrogen in it for flowering. What about reducing the AB in you solution and mixing in a bloom product starting after the first few weeks of 12/12 and continuing until finish? Just to augment the high Nitrogen in the H&G AB

All this playing around with the nutrients... maybe you should just make your own line of nutrients lol

 

[tree king]

who the hell is gonna read this 1000 page thread lol. i think its about time to start a new one

 

[Thedillestpickle]

who the hell is gonna read this 1000 page thread lol. i think its about time to start a new one

this one seems to be working just fine...
and thats 1000 posts not pages... there are some 1000 page threads too though...

 

[tree king]

my fault i misread it thought it was 1000 lol