Israel's cost to the American people estimated to be a staggering $2 trillion
- Thread starter jumpin' buffalo
- Start date
jumpin' buffalo
Member
It most definitely is true. Settlement expansion is the proof. Israel's claim to all of Jerusalem, which it took from the Palestinians in 1967, is more proof. And lastly, numerous statements in the past by Israeli government officials have made it clear that Israel believes the entire West Bank belongs to it.
jumpin' buffalo
Member
You can find the same article on the blog of Americans Against Being A Lapdog For Israel:
http://aabli.blogspot.com/
jumpin' buffalo
Member
Something tells me that the Israeli's didn't exactly get their guidance from reading a history of President Jackson when it comes to their land grab of the Palestinians land.
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
Would you like me to show you a map of Rome? Boy those Romans have had alot of land taken from them. They should get it all back!!
How about Mesopotamia?
Britain has been jipped of a lot of their colonies, they should get them back too!!
...and then there's reality:
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
Wasnt there a war in there? one which Israel was attacked?
Why yes, Dorothy, there has been a war in there! More than one, if memory serves...I know Wikipedia aren't perfect but on an issue as contentious as this I think they're pretty careful.
"The newly formed United Nations recommended that Mandatory Palestine be split into three parts—a Jewish State with a majority Jewish population, an Arab State with a majority Arab population, and an International Zone comprising Jerusalem and the surrounding area where the Jewish and Arab populations would be roughly equal. Resolution 181 decided the size of land allotted to each party. The Jewish State was supposed to be roughly 5,700 square miles in size and was supposed to contain a sizable Arab minority population. The Arab state was supposed to comprise roughly 4,300 square miles and would contain a tiny Jewish population. Neither state would be contiguous. Jerusalem and Bethlehem were to be put under the control of the United Nations. Neither side was satisfied with the Partition Plan. The Jews disliked losing Jerusalem—which had a majority Jewish population at that time—and worried about the tenability of a noncontiguous state. However, most of the Jews in Palestine accepted the plan, and the Jewish Agency (the de facto government of the Yishuv) campaigned fervently for its approval. The more extreme Jewish groups, such as the Irgun, rejected the plan. The Arab leadership argued that it violated the rights of the majority of the people in Palestine, which at the time was 67% non-Jewish (1,237,000) and 33% Jewish (608,000). Arab leaders also argued a large number of Arabs would be trapped in the Jewish State. Every major Arab leader objected in principle to the right of the Jews to an independent state in Palestine, reflecting the policies of the Arab League.
The UN General Assembly voted on the Partition Plan on November 29, 1947. Thirty-three states voted in favor of the Plan, while 13 countries opposed it. Ten countries abstained from the vote. The Yishuv accepted the plan, but the Arabs in Palestine and the surrounding Arab states rejected the plan. The Arab countries (all of which had opposed the plan) proposed to query the International Court of Justice on the competence of the General Assembly to partition a country against the wishes of the majority of its inhabitants, but were again defeated."
I've bolded passages.
As I see it, you have a region emerging from the collapsing Ottoman empire. Populated since pre-Roman times with a mixture of peoples of whom the majority were Arabs. Some of these were Muslim, some Christian, some Copts, etc. They seem to have peacefully coexisted with a Jewish minority, since Jews were People of the Book. I'm sure there were also Zoroastrians, a few Buddhists and some Hindu as well.
Common sense suggests the newly liberated ex-Ottoman provinces would be given the opportunity to self-determine their political future. But in a world dominated by the western powers - a factor to this day - and the horrific persecutions of European Jewry, a resolution was IMPOSED on the Arab majority AGAINST their expressed will.
There's yer problem right there. The indigenous majority have consistently stated that they DO NOT WANT a Jewish state in their midst based on an indigenous minority massively extended by mainly European and Russian immigration. It was IMPOSED on them so naturally their neighbours did the neighbourly thing and tried to crush it in its infancy - but with western help it has prevailed up till now.
Apart from the religious character of this white colony it wasn't so different from other imperialist enterprises such as South Africa or Latin America, in which the native populations were displaced by European colonists. It is a sordid aspect of our collective history, along with the slave trade and bear-baiting and it is NO LONGER CONSIDERED A COOL THING TO DO.
That said, one might just let bygones be bygones and get on with it. The thing is done.
The surrounding, Arab states have settled into an uneasy peace which might prevail...but for one niggling detail. Israel is still expanding into its neighbours' lands. Its doing it by brute force, by shooting stone-throwing children, cutting down hundred year old orchards, bulldozing homes. Its fuckin' ugly, what they're doing, and its no surprise people of conscience around the planet are upset by it. I'm sure if they stopped with the colonies, everything would settle down, prosper even. Why shouldn't it? The region has culture and smarts up the yin-yang. I'm smoking some serious Israeli shit as I write this.
So, yeah, there was a war. Its still going on.
(editted by Merowe)
"The newly formed United Nations recommended that Mandatory Palestine be split into three parts—a Jewish State with a majority Jewish population, an Arab State with a majority Arab population, and an International Zone comprising Jerusalem and the surrounding area where the Jewish and Arab populations would be roughly equal. Resolution 181 decided the size of land allotted to each party. The Jewish State was supposed to be roughly 5,700 square miles in size and was supposed to contain a sizable Arab minority population. The Arab state was supposed to comprise roughly 4,300 square miles and would contain a tiny Jewish population. Neither state would be contiguous. Jerusalem and Bethlehem were to be put under the control of the United Nations. Neither side was satisfied with the Partition Plan. The Jews disliked losing Jerusalem—which had a majority Jewish population at that time—and worried about the tenability of a noncontiguous state. However, most of the Jews in Palestine accepted the plan, and the Jewish Agency (the de facto government of the Yishuv) campaigned fervently for its approval. The more extreme Jewish groups, such as the Irgun, rejected the plan. The Arab leadership argued that it violated the rights of the majority of the people in Palestine, which at the time was 67% non-Jewish (1,237,000) and 33% Jewish (608,000). Arab leaders also argued a large number of Arabs would be trapped in the Jewish State. Every major Arab leader objected in principle to the right of the Jews to an independent state in Palestine, reflecting the policies of the Arab League.
The UN General Assembly voted on the Partition Plan on November 29, 1947. Thirty-three states voted in favor of the Plan, while 13 countries opposed it. Ten countries abstained from the vote. The Yishuv accepted the plan, but the Arabs in Palestine and the surrounding Arab states rejected the plan. The Arab countries (all of which had opposed the plan) proposed to query the International Court of Justice on the competence of the General Assembly to partition a country against the wishes of the majority of its inhabitants, but were again defeated."
I've bolded passages.
As I see it, you have a region emerging from the collapsing Ottoman empire. Populated since pre-Roman times with a mixture of peoples of whom the majority were Arabs. Some of these were Muslim, some Christian, some Copts, etc. They seem to have peacefully coexisted with a Jewish minority, since Jews were People of the Book. I'm sure there were also Zoroastrians, a few Buddhists and some Hindu as well.
Common sense suggests the newly liberated ex-Ottoman provinces would be given the opportunity to self-determine their political future. But in a world dominated by the western powers - a factor to this day - and the horrific persecutions of European Jewry, a resolution was IMPOSED on the Arab majority AGAINST their expressed will.
There's yer problem right there. The indigenous majority have consistently stated that they DO NOT WANT a Jewish state in their midst based on an indigenous minority massively extended by mainly European and Russian immigration. It was IMPOSED on them so naturally their neighbours did the neighbourly thing and tried to crush it in its infancy - but with western help it has prevailed up till now.
Apart from the religious character of this white colony it wasn't so different from other imperialist enterprises such as South Africa or Latin America, in which the native populations were displaced by European colonists. It is a sordid aspect of our collective history, along with the slave trade and bear-baiting and it is NO LONGER CONSIDERED A COOL THING TO DO.
That said, one might just let bygones be bygones and get on with it. The thing is done.
The surrounding, Arab states have settled into an uneasy peace which might prevail...but for one niggling detail. Israel is still expanding into its neighbours' lands. Its doing it by brute force, by shooting stone-throwing children, cutting down hundred year old orchards, bulldozing homes. Its fuckin' ugly, what they're doing, and its no surprise people of conscience around the planet are upset by it. I'm sure if they stopped with the colonies, everything would settle down, prosper even. Why shouldn't it? The region has culture and smarts up the yin-yang. I'm smoking some serious Israeli shit as I write this.
So, yeah, there was a war. Its still going on.
(editted by Merowe)
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
So if Mexico (somehow) annexed the US you wouldn't fight back? Or would you just learn Spanish and say "we lost the war" ? As usual glaring double standards from the pro-Israel crew.
jumpin' buffalo
Member
Great point. If Americans had been forced out of their houses and off their land by outside forces and were scattered around and still being dominated by the entity that forced them out, there's little doubt they be reacting the same way Palestinians are.
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
So the Palestinians dont have land, homes and now they dont want peace... What do you think they keep doing that is putting them in this situation? Oh yeah, they keep attacking Israel and things just keep getting worse. I am sure a few more rockets lobbed and a few more suicide bombers and everything is going to change for them... Yes, that is the ticket!!
...and back to reality.
Here is a picture of reality.
Its not a picture you or the other reality-challenged hasbara-peddlars can deal with: you seem to have trouble processing it. This is the third time I've posted it.
Maybe you think if you ignore it, it will cease to be reality. Kind of like, when I close my eyes, the WHOLE WORLD DISAPPEARS!
Its not going away. The reality it conveys isn't going away.
Every time you or the other apologists for an expansionist colonial state try spreading lies like the vicious garbage above, we're going to need to return to this refreshing dose of reality, because otherwise people who don't know about REALITY might start believing all the stupid lies and that would be so depressing, ya know? Its no different than pushing the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as some historical truth, instead of the rabid racist forgery that it was.
So, I'll end with a trick question. Its a trick question, because none of the defenders of Israeli terror can answer it. Like the map, they will try to ignore it, and talk a lot about suicide bombers.
Oh, and here is something about suicide bombers.
Last year they killed....zero Israelis.
The year before they killed....zero Israelis.
In fact, the last year any Israelis were killed by a suicide bomb was 2008. The same year over a thousand Palestinians were killed by the IDF. So enough already with the suicide bombers.
jumpin' buffalo
Member
Great map!!! And people can't understand why the Palestinians are so pissed off.