cmh or hps question

[xburninbluntzx]

i have 2 1000 w mh already to veg & 2 1000 w hps to flower;just need to know if i should get the cheaper hps aswell or if cmh would be better cause i think i'll need more for flower.

 

[Brick Top]

Plants outdoors have grown wonderfully for millions of years under the sun, pretty full spectrum, CMH spectrum is comparable. How can they emit light thats not good for plants? Light the plant may not use, yes. But to say its bad for a plant????????crazy....

I have not read every message in the thread, even with there being few, but who said that CMH emits; "light that's not good for plants?" Did someone actually say that?

First off, plants only use light that is in the visible spectrum, and of that they only use roughly 40%, and visible light is a tiny percentage of the entire electromagnetic spectrum.

Next, Chlorophyll A does not use all wavelength/spectrum of light, and some others are hardly used, and that doesn't change if the source is the sun or a CMH bulb.

People, you need to focus on what plants need during veg and flower and what plants can and will use during veg and flower. Anything and everything beyond or outside of that is next to meaningless.

Regardless of the sun putting out all kinds of electromagnetic spectrum, out of it all only a certain portion of it is visible light and of that amount plants only use a certain amount, some to a far, far lesser degree/amount than others.

Look at the messages I have posted. They clearly show what light wavelength/spectrum is used the most in veg and in flower and what is hardly used at all during any stage of growth and what is not used at all. How much more information do you need than that?

How important do you believe unused or hardly used wavelength/spectrum is to plants, and do you believe it to be of high enough importance that to get it you will accept reduced amounts of wavelength/spectrum that plants need and use the most?

View attachment 2034319

 

[wyteboi]

MH and HPS bulbs usually use the same E39 sockets, but the ballast has to be compatible if you are going to run straight CMH bulbs...they make conversion CMH bulbs that go in HPS ballasts...so unless your HPS ballast is a switchable one to run a MH bulb then you have to get a conversion bulb

all hps ballast will run a mh bulb , just not the other way around. an yes the socket is the same.



soil

 

[wyteboi]

I have never heard of this can anyone validate?Sorry for being sceptical but alot of the shit on the web is bad info.

i understand being sceptical , but it is safe. any hps ballast will run a mh lamp of the same wattage.



soil

 

[Brick Top]

Sorry none grower. CMH have been proven very effective for growing plants. And OP use the rain water, great choice....

Sorry, uneducated one, but if the OP wants to; "do things right" as was said, than a CMH alone is not the best option, not by far.

The point is not what will work, but what will work best. Any grow site you go to there will be members who only use MH from start to finish and others that only use CMH from start to finish and others that only use HPS from start to finish, and most every one of them will say what they use works and they will suggest that others do the same.

But there is a difference between working and doing the very best possible job, and that is done when MH (6500K) is used for veg and HPS for flower.

I am sorry if you, or anyone else, doesn't like facts and prefers to believe whatever it is they would prefer to believe. But those are the facts.


CHM is another gimmick that's being marketed in a way to fool those who do not know about or understand cannabis plants and their needs and what light they use and how much of light they use and at what stages of growth they use it in into purchasing something so the manufacturers can get rich. Period, thee end.

 

[skunkd0c]

all hps ballast will run a mh bulb , just not the other way around. an yes the socket is the same.



soil

this is something i have always done, although i do have mh gear too, and conversion bulbs also
i do notice standard metal halide bulbs running on sodium gear do seem to look less white , although they do run fine and the plants grow fine

 

[wyteboi]

Sorry, uneducated one, but if the OP wants to; "do things right" as was said, than a CMH alone is not the best option, not by far.

The point is not what will work, but what will work best. Any grow site you go to there will be members who only use MH from start to finish and others that only use CMH from start to finish and others that only use HPS from start to finish, and most every one of them will say what they use works and they will suggest that others do the same.

But there is a difference between working and doing the very best possible job, and that is done when MH (6500K) is used for veg and HPS for flower.

I am sorry if you, or anyone else, doesn't like facts and prefers to believe whatever it is they would prefer to believe. But those are the facts.


CHM is another gimmick that's being marketed in a way to fool those who do not know about or understand cannabis plants and their needs and what light they use and how much of light they use and that what stages of growth they use it in into purchasing something so the manufacturers can get rich. Period, thee end.

CMH is a gimmick , just like most gear aimed at mj growers.

but i am curious brick , (an i am like you , there is nothing to debate. facts are facts.) why do you choose mh for veg an hps for flower vs both for the whole cycle ?

oh an another big gimmick: mj grow bulbs. they alter the spectrum very slightly then call it a "grow bulb".
standard hps averages around 2700k for 20 to 50$.
grow hps averages around 2700k for 80 to 150$

standard mh averages around 5500k for 20 to 50$
grow mh averages around 5500k for 80 to 150$

then they got extra blue bulbs an extra red bulbs which barely differ from the standard hids.
a hps is "extra red" and a mh is "extra blue" if thats how you want to word it. you can spend the extra money for the same bulbs if you want but it makes no sense to me.
the only bulb the grow industry has come out with , thats only partially throwing your money away vs just burning money for the fuck of it is the duel spectrum bulb. its not worth the money but its not 100% waste of money like all the others. (only 60% waste of money )

then the ballast they make for growers :

"switchable ballast" ? what the fuck is that ? i bet they even hook the switch up inside to make it look like its doing something.
"remote ballast" ? no need to comment.
"dimmer ballast" ? thats gotta be good on a bulb. who uses this shit ?
"digital ballast save money on startup" i agree with that........ if you wanna replace your ballast every year or 3.


sorry for the ramblin guys , but a plant is a plant , they all use the same light, food ect....



soil

 

[wyteboi]

i do notice standard metal halide bulbs running on sodium gear do seem to look less white , although they do run fine and the plants grow fine

the hps ballast might just be a lil older then your mh or it could just be how you seen it that day. they are the exact same inside minus the ignitor on the hps. they might slightly vary by brand, age ect... but its the same parts running inside.


soil

 

[Brick Top]

CMH is a gimmick , just like most gear aimed at mj growers.

but i am curious brick , (an i am like you , there is nothing to debate. facts are facts.) why do you choose mh for veg an hps for flower vs both for the whole cycle ?

If you look at what wavelength/spectrum Chlorophyll A uses during flower and then in veg you will see that they are very different. Adding HPS to MH during flower will not be of great benefit and would increase stretch.

Using MH with HPS in flower makes a little more sense because of the UV rays put of by MH, but you will lose some yield my adding MH during flower, so to get UV rays a reptile light, like a Mega-Ray reptile light, is a better option to add to HPS during flower.

"switchable ballast" ? what the fuck is that ? i bet they even hook the switch up inside to make it look like its doing something.

I have no gripe with digital ones that sense which type bulb is used and adjust to it. With the way prices of lighting have dropped, to me that's like getting an upgraded stereo for little to no additional cost when you buy a new car. You might as well take it and enjoy it.

"dimmer ballast" ? thats gotta be good on a bulb. who uses this shit ?

I can see a dimmable ballast if someone uses high wattage. Turn it down some for seedlings or new clones, or if they cannot control heat as well as they had believed they could and either cannot upgrade their ventilation or cannot upgrade it for a while, or if they think there is a good chance that they will change their system before all that long and then want higher wattage, but in the short term cannot use higher wattage, but turned down to 75% output or 50% they could use it. If it costs you a bulb or two it's still better than buying a new light system now only to a short time later buy another entire new light system.

"digital ballast save money on startup" i agree with that........ if you wanna replace your ballast every year or 3.

I've gotten more than three years out of my current digital ballast, and most every quality ballast will have a 3 year full warranty with 2 years then pro-rated and from where I would purchase an additional $40.00 would make it a 100% full coverage 6-year warranty. That's not a bad value if you think your ballast will only last 3-years.

 

[wyteboi]

If you look at what wavelength/spectrum Chlorophyll A uses during flower and then in veg you will see that they are very different. Adding HPS to MH during flower will not be of great benefit and would increase stretch.

Using MH with HPS in flower makes a little more sense because of the UV rays put of by MH, but you will lose some yield my adding MH during flower, so to get UV rays a reptile light, like a Mega-Ray reptile light, is a better option to add to HPS during flower.

so my next question , why would it lower the yield ? it must be because the extra light hps puts off ? i can see the mh in flower not helping but i cant see it hurting the yield?

I have no gripe with digital ones that sense which type bulb is used and adjust to it. With the way prices of lighting have dropped, to me that's like getting an upgraded stereo for little to no additional cost when you buy a new car. You might as well take it and enjoy it.



I can see a dimmable ballast if someone uses high wattage. Turn it down some for seedlings or new clones, or if they cannot control heat as well as they had believed they could and either cannot upgrade their ventilation or cannot upgrade it for a while, or if they think there is a good chance that they will change their system before all that long and then want higher wattage, but in the short term cannot use higher wattage, but turned down to 75% output or 50% they could use it. If it costs you a bulb or two it's still better than buying a new light system now only to a short time later buy another entire new light system.




I've gotten more than three years out of my current digital ballast, and most every quality ballast will have a 3 year full warranty with 2 years then pro-rated and from where I would purchase an additional $40.00 would make it a 100% full coverage 6-year warranty. That's not a bad value if you think your ballast will only last 3-years.

if your ballast "senses" which type of bulb you put in it , you had to pay way too much for it.
lighting has dropped bigtime in the last decade , but i am a very cheap ass. i will have to stick to my magnetic ballast. there cheap and last forever.

thanks for the great info brick!

soil

 

[skunkd0c]

i have grown with all the different HID type bulbs, the difference is not something i can notice or worry about
ill leave this kind of thing to the experts/obsessive type of folk looking to improve their crop by 0.0001% or whatever lol

peace

 

[xburninbluntzx]

ok my friend is gokng to just give me the old hps so i'll just get the cmh *or chm??* to and try it....i'll make an experiment once it is all set up and running and let you all know how it works

 

[Wetdog]

CMH is a gimmick , just like most gear aimed at mj growers.
soil

A little exception. The CMH was never promoted as a *grow* bulb by the manufacturer (Phillips), but to offer a more "Natural" spectrum for existing HPS systems. Like factories, warehouses and so on. It was never aimed at or intended for growers.

Then, *Stoner Science* happened.

Isn't RiddleM3 quite fond of CMH?

Wet

 

[shmokinzeeveed]

OP: Try it out, I bought a CMH a few months ago, and after a couple grows I like it alot. Gimmick or not, better to try it for yourself and determine if its for you. Of course as we have seen here, there will be a few that will try their damnest to talk you out of it even though they have no direct experience growing with a CMH.

 

[wyteboi]

A little exception. The CMH was never promoted as a *grow* bulb by the manufacturer (Phillips), but to offer a more "Natural" spectrum for existing HPS systems. Like factories, warehouses and so on. It was never aimed at or intended for growers.

Then, *Stoner Science* happened.

Isn't RiddleM3 quite fond of CMH?

Wet

ok i did my homework , yea your right , they were aimed at taking some of the yellow out of these displays an signs out there. i am sorry phillips for accusing you of being advanced nutrients.
that is a very good bulb for what is was intended for.

an since it just fell into the stoner world, i will not call it a "gimmick" but of course some of the manafactures are gonna push it as the "best light" for growing. the price is not bad and it works in any old magnetic ballast , so i will actually change my mind and say this is a good bulb. i use mh an hps for flower an this bulb is pretty much the same thing except it aint as powerful. i dont really see no difference in the duel spectrum bulb vs this one.

my opinion is that any duel spec, cmh or a combo of mh an hps is always gonna be better then just hps for flower. its only certain evenings where the sun is actually at 2700k.



soil .... thanks for the correction wet.

 

[Wetdog]

Actually, I'm running a CMH in my 400w MH.

It was actually cheaper than a 6500k bulb and I like the spectrum better to boot. The 'standard' MH bulb spectrum is pretty sucky.

Still using the standard HPS bulb though. I run both in a large adjust a wing. Both 400w and both magnetic. Digital's just never impressed me that much, even if the price was the same as magnetics.

Wet

 

[missnu]

MH and HPS bulbs usually use the same E39 sockets, but the ballast has to be compatible if you are going to run straight CMH bulbs...they make conversion CMH bulbs that go in HPS ballasts...so unless your HPS ballast is a switchable one to run a MH bulb then you have to get a conversion bulb

This is incorrect. CMH bulbs require magnetic ballasts or HPS ballasts. Digital or electronic ballasts run both Metal Halide and HPS and for that you can't get a true CMH but you can get a metal halide conversion bulb...Aww man they have a dual arc bulb that has both metal halide and hps simultaneously in the same bulb....looks crazy...

 

[jeeba]

This is incorrect. CMH bulbs require magnetic ballasts or HPS ballasts. Digital or electronic ballasts run both Metal Halide and HPS and for that you can't get a true CMH but you can get a metal halide conversion bulb...Aww man they have a dual arc bulb that has both metal halide and hps simultaneously in the same bulb....looks crazy...

Talking about a 1000w hortilux super blue ?

 

[wyteboi]

Actually, I'm running a CMH in my 400w MH.

Wet

the info on the cmh says you can only use it in a magnetic hps ballast. no digital ballast or anything. so it works fine in the mh huh ?


soil

 

[wyteboi]

This is incorrect. CMH bulbs require magnetic ballasts or HPS ballasts. Digital or electronic ballasts run both Metal Halide and HPS and for that you can't get a true CMH but you can get a metal halide conversion bulb

ANY hps ballast will work with a mh bulb. mag or digi. a mh ballast will not fire a hps bulb though , mag or digi.

the website says to only use cmh in a magnetic hps ballast but wet seems to be using a mh ballast for his. ?

i know your not supposed to use in any digital ballast , i guess they just aint supposed to be fired right away like a digi does.




soil