Inda-gro Induction...

[Redoctober]

Totally agree 711. Funnily enough HPS is really the only thing I haven't used, with the exception of an old shitty 400W light. It's from back in the days when the ballast was still attached to the light instead of remote, so the damn thing weighs like 50lbs. Hanging it is a bitch. I've used the older generation Spectra 180's which have given me good results. I've also done T5 and CFL grows...anything to skirt around the heat and annoyance of HPS. I may have to do an exclusively HPS grow just to have a basis for comparison. But then I'm going to have to rig up a cooling and venting system which will be even trickier if I am going to use CO2.

How are you liking those Diamonds? I'm looking into getting either that or the Pro Gro which has IR to trigger flower and UV for trichome production. Apparently IR & UV is the only thing missing from the Diamond Series light, otherwise it'd be perfect. Everything I've heard about them is top quality. They use the Cree diodes which are absolutely the best, and also why the lights are a bit more expensive. Pro-Grow advertises that they use Cree diodes, buuuuut I'm not sure I believe it because the cost of the light is lower compared to most. Not that that's proof or anything, just a suspicion. As you said, it's really tough picking a light because there are so many more manufacturers now, and they keep revising their technology. I think we're pretty much at the point where LEDs can match HIDs, watt for watt anyway. When people use LED, they generally use significantly less watts than they would with an HPS, but if you did equivalent wattage, I bet you'd get an equivalent yield, and probably higher quality too. I've heard some people claim that LEDs make flowering take a little longer but I personally have'nt found this to be the case.

Let me know what your impression of the Diamond lights is, and also how your LED grow is stacking up to your HPS?

 

[supchaka]

There's a guy selling 4 Inda-gro lights on Craig's for 250 each, the 200 watt. But he hasn't answered me email

 

[Psytranceorgy]

i am pretty sure that i would scoop up a couple inda-gro 200s for $500 in a heartbeat...

 

[puffenuff]

Totally agree 711. Funnily enough HPS is really the only thing I haven't used, with the exception of an old shitty 400W light. It's from back in the days when the ballast was still attached to the light instead of remote, so the damn thing weighs like 50lbs. Hanging it is a bitch. I've used the older generation Spectra 180's which have given me good results. I've also done T5 and CFL grows...anything to skirt around the heat and annoyance of HPS. I may have to do an exclusively HPS grow just to have a basis for comparison. But then I'm going to have to rig up a cooling and venting system which will be even trickier if I am going to use CO2.

How are you liking those Diamonds? I'm looking into getting either that or the Pro Gro which has IR to trigger flower and UV for trichome production. Apparently IR & UV is the only thing missing from the Diamond Series light, otherwise it'd be perfect. Everything I've heard about them is top quality. They use the Cree diodes which are absolutely the best, and also why the lights are a bit more expensive. Pro-Grow advertises that they use Cree diodes, buuuuut I'm not sure I believe it because the cost of the light is lower compared to most. Not that that's proof or anything, just a suspicion. As you said, it's really tough picking a light because there are so many more manufacturers now, and they keep revising their technology. I think we're pretty much at the point where LEDs can match HIDs, watt for watt anyway. When people use LED, they generally use significantly less watts than they would with an HPS, but if you did equivalent wattage, I bet you'd get an equivalent yield, and probably higher quality too. I've heard some people claim that LEDs make flowering take a little longer but I personally have'nt found this to be the case.

Let me know what your impression of the Diamond lights is, and also how your LED grow is stacking up to your HPS?

Diamonds rock fyi. Not sure if all your info on them is accurate though as they have uv and ir and do not have cree leds. Excellent grow lights though, love mine.

 

[supchaka]

i am pretty sure that i would scoop up a couple inda-gro 200s for $500 in a heartbeat...

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/vgm/2822467344.html he didn't answer my email, maybe he will for you

 

[711grower]

so far i really like the advanced leds but they where considerably more expensive then the spectra 100s. i bought 4 of the spectra 100s for 640 bucks shipped. they have 100 leds and draw about 150 watts. the advanced also have 100 leds and draw 180 watts. the size of the advanced leds is considerably bigger then the spectras and weigh significantly more. this leads me to believe that the advanced leds are better built then the spectras considering they are only 30 watts more. again there is a slight edge with the advanced over the spectras but i really think its to early to tell. i am still not convinced that an led can out produce a 1000 watt hps even if its watt for watt. i currently have 6 plants under a 1000 watt hps and those plants are absolute beasts. i have never been able to produce plants under leds that look like the plants that are currently under the hps. i average 2 to 3 ounces per plant tops under an led. the plants under the hps look like there gonna yield about 6 to 8 ounces each. chop chop is in about 2 weeks so i will know the real weight then. pro source is supposed to have a new led out soon and so is black star once again showing led manufacturers have a new product about every 6 months or so...

 

[Redoctober]

Diamonds rock fyi. Not sure if all your info on them is accurate though as they have uv and ir and do not have cree leds. Excellent grow lights though, love mine.

You could be right about the Cree diodes, I'm not sure where I got that from because it doesn't say it on their website, so I might be confusing the Diamond Series with the Pro-Grow which does use Cree (or so they say). But as for the IR and UV, I didn't see that on the Advanced website either. They list their wavelengths and 760nm is one of them which technically is infrared (anything longer than 750nm is infrared) but the shortest they list is 380nm which isn't in the UVB range that is responsible for trichome production. UVA is between 300-400nm, UVB is 200-300nm and UVC is shorter than 200nm which is harmful and dangerous. So the 380nm wavelength is basically short wave blue light and wouldn't have much of an affect on trichs, though it still may be useful light for the plant.

 

[Redoctober]

so far i really like the advanced leds but they where considerably more expensive then the spectra 100s. i bought 4 of the spectra 100s for 640 bucks shipped. they have 100 leds and draw about 150 watts. the advanced also have 100 leds and draw 180 watts. the size of the advanced leds is considerably bigger then the spectras and weigh significantly more. this leads me to believe that the advanced leds are better built then the spectras considering they are only 30 watts more. again there is a slight edge with the advanced over the spectras but i really think its to early to tell. i am still not convinced that an led can out produce a 1000 watt hps even if its watt for watt. i currently have 6 plants under a 1000 watt hps and those plants are absolute beasts. i have never been able to produce plants under leds that look like the plants that are currently under the hps. i average 2 to 3 ounces per plant tops under an led. the plants under the hps look like there gonna yield about 6 to 8 ounces each. chop chop is in about 2 weeks so i will know the real weight then. pro source is supposed to have a new led out soon and so is black star once again showing led manufacturers have a new product about every 6 months or so...

Interesting, so you have roughly 980W of LED's over some plants and a single 1000W HPS over a similar number of plants and the HPS plants are producing double the yield per plant as the LED? Wow! I guess you've proved that they don't quite match up yet. I assume that all other factors other than the lights remain the same i.e. strain, nutrients etc? I might have to go with HPS then as much as I hate to do it. What is the new Blackstar light? And have you heard of any others coming to market soon that show any promise?

There is a company called Gavita that is manufacturing a plasma bulb which looks really interesting but they also make HPS lights that are supposed to be exceptional. They are different though in that the ballasts are attached to the fixture so I'm not sure if or how you would cool them. I'll have to look more into that.

 

[711grower]

yes all conditions are the same in my room so the plants are exposed to the same humidity and temps. i use the same nutrients for all the plants as well. the hps side is just smoking the led side. i have talked to a few people that have run the gavita plasma and they all say the same thing. they use it in conjunction with hps. the plasmas seem to fill the spectrum better to produce a higher quality product while the hps packs on the weight. its supposed to be a killer combo. even gavita reccomends using there plasma with hps. i just dont think plasma is there yet to be a stand alone unit unless of course you shell out 3500 bucks for an iplasma system. gavita hps systems are nice however they arent able to be cooled. this design is actually planned this way. gavita has done extensive research and cooling bulbs changes the kelvin rating of the bulb. it also decreases bulb life. gavita wants the bulb to produce at optimum levels and cooling a bulb doesnt achieve this. bulbs need heat to create the reactions in the compounds within the bulbs. gavita caters to alot of commercial operations. they know there shit and thats why they dont make vented hoods. i am currently using the luxor hood with my 1000 watt hps. i can honestly say its the best damn hood i have ever used. it pounds the light down and is vented. it removes heat by convection rather then blowing cool air directly over the bulb. the manufactures of the hood told me it was designed this way on purpose so that the bulb remains at a constant temp to maximize its performance. it doesnt remove as much heat as a traditional vented hood but damn does this hood pump some light out

 

[Redoctober]

I was doing a little research and those Gavitas sound pretty great. farmerEd has a few and he was saying that they're not even terrible hot compared to most HPS lamps as long as your room air circulation is decent. He says that he can even put his hand on the reflector. I guess these lights are pretty efficient.

So are you using the actual Gavita lamp+ballast? That Luxor looks cool, though I couldn't tell if Gavita makes it or not. Interesting concept, vertical bulb using the reflector to do all the light dispersion. I don't know if you could use that reflector with the Gavita but maybe you could. I think the Gavita does offer a remote ballast but, and here's the part I don't fully understand, the further away the ballast is from the lamp, the more "EMI (RF Interference)" you get. I don't know if this just translates into less current, or less light output?

 

[711grower]

i dont have any gavitas. the luxor is made by sunlight supply. a 1000 watt bulb puts out considerable heat regardless if you can touch the hood or not. i can touch my luxor hood too but it deffinately heats up the room. i am using a badass ballast with a badass hps bulb. they are made by advanced nutrients. i got a smokin deal on it so i gave it a shot. so far me likey...

 

[PSUAGRO.]

You could be right about the Cree diodes, I'm not sure where I got that from because it doesn't say it on their website, so I might be confusing the Diamond Series with the Pro-Grow which does use Cree (or so they say). But as for the IR and UV, I didn't see that on the Advanced website either. They list their wavelengths and 760nm is one of them which technically is infrared (anything longer than 750nm is infrared) but the shortest they list is 380nm which isn't in the UVB range that is responsible for trichome production. UVA is between 300-400nm, UVB is 200-300nm and UVC is shorter than 200nm which is harmful and dangerous. So the 380nm wavelength is basically short wave blue light and wouldn't have much of an affect on trichs, though it still may be useful light for the plant.

Funny thing is I wouldn't buy either panel anymore.......Eraserhead took his advanced apart for us all to see (under Maxxpesh's thread "new led or not??") and its build quality is atrocious /wiring different current specd leds on the same series/questionable boards(fiberglass) not aluminum....either way check it out..

I returned my progrow for the same reason........questionable build quality......

 

[mrownage426]

Please keep us informed as to feasibility, savings,quality, etc.....I almost bought those LED's...so glad i didn't....great for veg, but their claims on flowering? BOGUS. Also I'd LOVE to support an American company.

 

[backwood grower]

I think I will put in my two cents,
Inda-gro lights (the 420s) are really nice, they will not beat out a 1000watt hps, BUT they will stand toe to toe with a 750 hps all day, as for veg they seem to be at the same rate if not high than a 1000watt MH and they can be used across the board, on seeds all the way up to mature plants and they have really nice results. All this knowledge is from my good friend, after seeing his results I am getting a few of these for my rooms to test out the flower qualitys for myself. As for the Chinese bulb comment, if anyone here can find me a florescent filament that is made in the US I will personally send them a QP of hash, but since the US has a blanket ban on the use of Mercury...... yea, all floros are made in either China or the UK, and then shipped here to be installed in lighting units, just how it is, they can also make the bulbs FAR cheaper than we can make them here, same go's for the big boys MH and HPS and also for LEDS, no LEDs are made in the US, its just not cost effective.

MH and HPS are still number 2 in yield right behind the Sun itself

Induction is a close 3rd

LED is a more distant 4th

and Floro / CFL are a far 5th

Plasma is still relatively untested but I would expect it to knock LED down another peg, but give LED some more time at bat and maybe they could climb up to a number 2 or 3 spot....only time will tell

Also remember that GPW in an inaccurate measurement of production, GPM2 (gram per meter squared) is far more accurate, its a bit harder to measure but is the best indicator of Yield.

 

[Redoctober]

I think I will put in my two cents, Inda-gro lights (the 420s) are really nice, they will not beat out a 1000watt hps, BUT they will stand toe to toe with a 750 hps all day, as for veg they seem to be at the same rate if not high than a 1000watt MH and they can be used across the board, on seeds all the way up to mature plants and they have really nice results. All this knowledge is from my good friend, after seeing his results I am getting a few of these for my rooms to test out the flower qualitys for myself. As for the Chinese bulb comment, if anyone here can find me a florescent filament that is made in the US I will personally send them a QP of hash, but since the US has a blanket ban on the use of Mercury...... yea, all floros are made in either China or the UK, and then shipped here to be installed in lighting units, just how it is, they can also make the bulbs FAR cheaper than we can make them here, same go's for the big boys MH and HPS and also for LEDS, no LEDs are made in the US, its just not cost effective. MH and HPS are still number 2 in yield right behind the Sun itself Induction is a close 3rd LED is a more distant 4th and Floro / CFL are a far 5th Plasma is still relatively untested but I would expect it to knock LED down another peg, but give LED some more time at bat and maybe they could climb up to a number 2 or 3 spot....only time will tell Also remember that GPW in an inaccurate measurement of production, GPM2 (gram per meter squared) is far more accurate, its a bit harder to measure but is the best indicator of Yield.

Nice backwood! I was very interested to see how these performed. Your comment made me think though, when we are using fluoro bulbs, aren't we liberating Mercury into our air and breathing it? Albeit a very small amount, but Mercury is really some very nasty shit. I've been doing a lot of research on metal toxicity in the body because I have been having some thyroid problems, and am going to a special doctor to get my metal levels measured, and eventually chelated and removed. It's a rough process, taking up to 6 months, but totally worth it. Everyone I know who has done it says they feel sooooo much better. I'm starting by getting the Mercury amalgam fillings drilled out of my head, which every dentist still thinks are safe haha! Anyhow, before I get off on a rant, I think what you said is reason enough for me to avoid fluorescent lamps. I think I will also have to get rid of my T5's as well because I'm sure they are just the same. I am assuming that HPS don't contain mercury, is that right?

 

[cgally]

I agree with backwood . I'm not seeing the same explosive growth and size compared to 1k hps.( to be completely fair, I started flowering the ladies a bit shorter than normal. I was concerned about light penetration being much less than hps. I spoke to inda-gro and they said the light is good out to a maximum of 32 inches. That's actually more than I expected so I have some experimenting to do.) It does look very nice and resin and trich production seem to be superior at this point. That being said, I decided to add a 400 watt CMH in to the mix for extra measure. I am still very happy with the inda-gro 420 so far and I'm sure the CMH will make things even better. Full spectrum lighting is the shizz.

 

[TekFarmer]

Hey y'all. I've been watching this discussion for some time and I've been looking at some alternatives to my set up as well. I'm a legal Michigan Medical grower and use T5's and a 3.5 gallon R-DWC system (undercurrent style with chillers) in a 4x4 tent for veg, and two 1000w vented HPS's (with eight 5 gallon buckets, undercurrent-style with chillers) for flower in a 4x9 tent. I have a continuous harvest - 4 plants under each HPS, chopped once a month... 12 4-plant harvests every year. I'm not a GREAT grower, but I'm a good grower and getting better. My harvests have not been anywhere near the 1g/watt that many people report on here, but I'm happy with my product and there is room for improvement. More to come on that... so enough about my background...

MY ISSUE: Last summer in Michigan was HOT. My chillers couldn't keep the nutrient solutions cool enough in my basement, and the temps in that little basement with those two HPS's got to over 100F at times. A single portable 13,000 but air conditioner barely made a dent in it. My plants SUFFERED, my harvest SUFFERED, and my patients SUFFERED. The high heats eventually shut me down completely, and I didn't get up and running again until I finally got my first harvest back Nov/2011. No more of that crap. Its Spring of 2012, and I'm wise enough to be afraid of summer's now and don't want to shut down my grow again. Summertime is fast approaching. My patients need their meds and they depend upon me to do a good job. So... I decided to invest, and take the plunge.

SO HERE'S THE DEAL: This week I ordered five Inda-Gro PRO 420 PAR's. Its my intention to totally replace my existing system with Inda-Gro Induction lighting and see how we do. From what I've read, it can take some time for the plants to adjust to the induction light. It's brighter, and with the delivered spectrum that they learn-to-love... they like it, but they need to acclimate to it. So I'll be pulling the T5's and replacing them in my 4x4 veg tent with a single PRO 420 PAR. Four weeks of veg under this light should get them humming and well adjusted to this more efficient and broader spectrum lighting.

For my Flower tent, I currently have two 6" duct-vented 1000w HPS's. Those are being pulled and put back into their storage boxes. I'll be replacing them with not two, but four PRO 420 PAR induction lights from Inda-Gro. From what I've read, each of the 420's pulls about 420 watts, but each 420 gives about the same grow-power / flower-power as 750w of HPS. I'll put one Inda-Gro over every two plants (instead of one 1000w HPS over every 4 plants), for a total of 4 lamps over 8 plants, taking my total flower-power from 2000w of HPS to 3000w of Induction. It should have a slightly lower power-consumption footprint, so the power company won't see any bump in my light bill. This lower power consumption footprint should also help to protect me from the ever-so-hostile law enforcement here in Michigan, even though I am a "legal grower" here in Michigan law enforcement chooses to ignore the law and enforce whatever they want to (friggin bully's). And with the increase in actual light, it is my erstwhile hope that my harvest volume/weight will not suffer either. It is my intention / hope to increase rather than decrease the bulk of my harvests, and thats why I'm going up and not down in the overall light being given to my girls. From what I've read on most of these forums people are saying that induction lighting does not compare to HPS, and that HPS out-yields induction. I see a pattern here, as many are comparing a single induction light to a single 1000w HPS. How about two induction lights to a single 1000w HPS, that you can actually run closer to the plants? The other problem that I see is that many are forming their negative opinions of induction lighting on the Mland lights (not really designed with us growers in mind) or even the Inda-Gro 400's (supposedly not the ideal spectrum design for our type of plant, and our type of growing). From what I've read, seen on the youtube video's, and seen from "select testimonials" the PRO 420 PAR's are the shit. Give me a few months... I'll let you know if they are or not.

Are they expensive? Damn straight they are. But so is being shut down for 4 months.

More to come boys....

 

[AltarNation]

Just subbing to this so I can read up later. Definitely interested in these. I will switch ASAP when I see some good runs with one... I like the idea of it matching up to a 750w HPS, that's fucking impressive. Hopefully I'm not regurgitating something in the thread already, but does anyone know what the footprint is for one of these 420's? How far away can you keep the light and still get good penetration? Because it's technically a fluoro and fluoros have to be so damn close... does this penetrate?

 

[chazbolin]

Anyone else done a DWC grow with the Inda-Gro's like this? I see no issues with canopy penetration. For a day 18 video these are plants and the fan blades are truly impressive.

[video=youtube;ROjGed0W2ew]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROjGed0W2ew&list=UUc7IPosooLoG_lxXYvporkw& index=1&feature=plcp[/video]

 

[AltarNation]

Nice man, those are amazing looking... but I really want to see flowering evidence. You're right in the sense that it does seem to have good penetration... wondering if that light is in it's permanent position or if he has it lower when it's closed up...