Thedillestpickle
Well-Known Member
I think a dilute flush would be excellent advice, except that he is not growing in soil or soilless. It's an aeroponics system.
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I think a dilute flush would be excellent advice, except that he is not growing in soil or soilless. It's an aeroponics system.
ievolution
Well-Known Member
What would be the difference? You can flush aeroponics systems also it may be a little different but same theory. The only thing is deficiencies would set in much quicker in aeroponics compared to soil or even coco.
Thedillestpickle
Well-Known Member
Because with coco or soil you would be cleaning salts built up in the medium. In aeroponics there is no medium other than the nutrient solution itself
with water medium hydroponics your supposed to clean the system out, meaning clean the lines, res, chamber, and other equipement to get rid of the salt buildup deposited on the sides of things, but that isn't really a flush.
If his plants arent using as much nitrogen as he's giving them and if he were using soilless or soil, I could see nitrogen building up in his medium and causing the overdose, but I don't see how nitrogen could be building up in a water medium hydro setup?
ievolution
Well-Known Member
IDK My friends that run DWC will give water or a light nute mix for about 24 hours. I've also heard anywhere from 1-48 hours so who really knows since it's aeroponics I wouldn't go plain water whatever you do. Flushing isn't just flushing salts that build up in the medium but it also helps flush out salts built up in the plant. If he flushes with 1/4 strength nutrients for a day at the end of that day the PPM should rise. Unless I am completely off base and don't understand Osmosis. I may be wrong and it may not be flushing when you are in Aeroponics but I believe it is the same besides the Lack of medium getting flushed.
Thedillestpickle
Well-Known Member
You might be right.
Osmosis is caused by having a higher salt concentration on one side of a membrane that pulls water through the membrane until their is equilibrium. Technically if flushing actually pulls salts out of the plant it is not osmosis at work but something else. All osmosis would do during a flush is cause the plants roots to absorbe water much faster. Perhaps the plant responds to this sudden salt imbalance by disposing of some of the salts already in the roots.
Qwisty is doing a 1 hour flush he said in his journal. Hopefully it works out
Osmosis is caused by having a higher salt concentration on one side of a membrane that pulls water through the membrane until their is equilibrium. Technically if flushing actually pulls salts out of the plant it is not osmosis at work but something else. All osmosis would do during a flush is cause the plants roots to absorbe water much faster. Perhaps the plant responds to this sudden salt imbalance by disposing of some of the salts already in the roots.
Qwisty is doing a 1 hour flush he said in his journal. Hopefully it works out
I flushed with PH'd RO and 30ml of Clearex per gallon for about 1.5 hours. I believe the source of my problem was I was using Bud-XL and Multi-Zen at the same time. I had a custom feed chart showing the two being used together. The H&G feed chart says not to use them together.. lesson learned, at least I'm hoping that was the problem.
ievolution
Well-Known Member
Yeah they are both enzymes I have never used them together but I assume it isn't good.
I kind of believed Osmosis would be in play since the plant would be sucking up water and releasing the solution it was previously feeding on to the other solution. I mean osmosis doesn't always result in equilibrium but It can if allowed. That means the plant couldn't absorb a less PPM than what you are feeding it and the solutions PPM will rise during the flush. That should be osmosis by definition. Found this doesn't mean its right.
Plants survive because of two main support systems that come from the ground – water and nutrients. Both enter the plant through its roots by a process called osmosis
I kind of believed Osmosis would be in play since the plant would be sucking up water and releasing the solution it was previously feeding on to the other solution. I mean osmosis doesn't always result in equilibrium but It can if allowed. That means the plant couldn't absorb a less PPM than what you are feeding it and the solutions PPM will rise during the flush. That should be osmosis by definition. Found this doesn't mean its right.
Plants survive because of two main support systems that come from the ground – water and nutrients. Both enter the plant through its roots by a process called osmosis
Well so far it looks like the plants are much happier. The problem seems to not be getting worse and the portions of the plant that were looking unhealthy are starting to show signs of some recovery.
My PPM's stay pretty constant during the night cycle at about 800-820 PPM's. My PH also remains stable at around 6.1. During the day my PH tends to want to creep up about 0.1-0.2 during the 12 hour period. I tend to have to add 1-2ml of PH down every 24 hours. During the day cycle my PPM's also tend to climb to about 840-850 and I must add additional water. Right now I'm using about 2-3 gallons every 24 hours.
I started 12/12 on 1-8-2012 and flowers started to appear around 1-18-2012. My current nutrient regime per 10 gallon of RO water is:
50ml Calmag
55ml Aquaflakes A&B
3ml Bud-XL
3ml Amino Treatment
.5ml Drip Clean
I've discontinued use of Roots Excel and Multi-Zen.
ievolution
Well-Known Member
Woah that is a lot of Aquaflakes A&B. 55ml per gal is insane if that isn't misprinted. 1 gal of nutrients at peak flowering would call for about 10 ml of A&B right?
raindog
Member
Thank you! I just started using shooting powder which means no more Multi-zyme right? I could add some mykos and Zho but read somewhere that the high levels of P will kill most microbes..true? I think this is why no more RE either. Question: What about Bud XL? Will H2O2 kill off the ingredients? What about using H2O2 in coco? Doesn't H2O2 eat dead matter..i.e. coco? Lots of questions here. The plants seemed to really like the H2O2 despite the PH prob. I think it was the O2. I could feed more often possibly with H2O2 ??.
I did flush with clearex and this (so far) has dropped the Ph to 6.3.
Thanks again,
Thedillestpickle
Well-Known Member
I'm not suggesting you feed with H2O2 from now on. Use it once and then resume normal feeding.
You don't need to use RE forever, stop using it once your rootzone is fully developed.
Multi enzyme primarily is meant to clear out dead matter from the medium, that's why you don't use it for the first week because theres nothing dead yet. I don't see how that should interfere with Shooting Powder. My feed chart shows Multi enzyme being used from end of week 1 of veg until harvest alongiside shooting powder and BudXL
if anyone can show me anything that says BudXL should not be used in conjuction with multi enzyme please let me know
You don't need to use RE forever, stop using it once your rootzone is fully developed.
Multi enzyme primarily is meant to clear out dead matter from the medium, that's why you don't use it for the first week because theres nothing dead yet. I don't see how that should interfere with Shooting Powder. My feed chart shows Multi enzyme being used from end of week 1 of veg until harvest alongiside shooting powder and BudXL
if anyone can show me anything that says BudXL should not be used in conjuction with multi enzyme please let me know
raindog
Member
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They show on my online calc. http://www.house-garden.us/nutrient-calculator/ ending Multizyme after week 4 or a week before TB on a 9 week schedule. Could you send me your nute calculator? US or Europe etc. that's a huge difference in formulas or something?? <br> <br>
I'm worried I will really really screw things up if I add H2O2.. What do you think of Hygrozyme? I know it's compatible with HG (as well as H2O2). I feed tomorrow morning and will try the hygrozyme to lower the PH. I do think at this point that The EWC tea I used two weeks ago is the problem. I added it in much higher concentration than recommended and possibly screwed the tea itself up. I think loads of dead microbes decaying is creating a rise in the Ph. Maybe ..not sure. <br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>
The H&G feed chart on their web site doesn't show them being used together.
http://www.house-garden.us/nutrient-calculator/
Can't find anything else though..
raindog
Member
I read that Multizyme is for plant internal structure, and not more a cleaning agent such as Hygrozyme (or H2O2).
Hey check this out: I found it! http://www.house-garden.com.au/feed_charts_mix_rates.php
So why do they say use Multizyme all the way through in NZ and not in the US? I'm going to call the HG rep, Rob. I'll ask about my tea/Ph prob as well. I think HG is the bomb but wish they were as consistent with their product consistency (they advertise this) as they could be with the instructions. arrgh.
My plants don't show any signs of nute lock out .. but I wonder what it would be like if the Ph was correct?? Ha If it was a simple formula to grow good med dope then it would be not as interesting.
Peace.
Thedillestpickle
Well-Known Member
Yea I guess it should be mentioned that I live in Canada so the products sold here could be completely different thanwhat is available in the US. That's kinda rediculous if you ask me, but I bet it's more of a govenment restriction on fertilizer ingredients thing than H&G wanting to make their products different.
Could anyone using H&G aqua flakes give me a quick readout on the NPKK value of those nutrients?
Also I'm curious to the NPK of the H&G Soil nutrients
Could anyone using H&G aqua flakes give me a quick readout on the NPKK value of those nutrients?
Also I'm curious to the NPK of the H&G Soil nutrients
ievolution
Well-Known Member
You don't use very much Additives at all. Is it too save money? I mean you would normally use 38 ml of Amino and Budxl in that situation and 4 ml of drip clean.
ievolution
Well-Known Member
That is weird(i before e except after c is bs) that Canada uses Multizen throughout flowering. IF YOU ARE IN THE STATES ONLY USE MULTIZEN TILL WEEK 4(OR LIKE ME AND A WEEK AFTER FIRST SIGNS OF FLOWERS) THEN SWITCH TO BUD XL. Sorry for the bold caps but House and Garden has said this plenty of times on their site so don't get confused with Pickle since he is from canada and it is for some weird reason not the same in America.. Actually if you guys haven't checked out www.House-garden.us/faq you should check it out. They have a lot of very helpful info all over their site and you can ask a question there also instead of emailing them which usually gets a faster response.
Pickle do you know what the difference is in the formulas where you can use it throughout and we cant? Kind of confusing even though I am very glad we don't because I already use sooo much Multizen it is ridiculous. I mean if I used it from the beginning to the end I would use a gallon a cycle. I already use over a liter per cycle.
I went to the store yesterday and picked up the complete Earth Juice line for 150 dollars. I am going to give it a run again since it was the only other nutrient line I have used that was very comparable to House and Gardens finished quality for 1/5 the price. The only problem is you better not care about getting 'shit' on your hands. The EJ Grow smells like cat shit and the rest don't smell much better. I mean I got better results from EJ over Advanced so it is a very good product. Pickle may like it because it gives you more control having the Grow and Bloom where you can use together until Nitrogen isn't needed anymore then just cut Grow out.
I'll never stop using Roots Excelurator even though the big bottle costs 23 cents per gal to mix. I didn't use it on a plant recently and the roots were so far behind the exact strain I almost felt bad for her. I have to switch out of a 1 gal pot by the time a plant is 12-16 inches. The plant that didn't get it grew over 24 inches and still could of went further.
Pickle do you know what the difference is in the formulas where you can use it throughout and we cant? Kind of confusing even though I am very glad we don't because I already use sooo much Multizen it is ridiculous. I mean if I used it from the beginning to the end I would use a gallon a cycle. I already use over a liter per cycle.
I went to the store yesterday and picked up the complete Earth Juice line for 150 dollars. I am going to give it a run again since it was the only other nutrient line I have used that was very comparable to House and Gardens finished quality for 1/5 the price. The only problem is you better not care about getting 'shit' on your hands. The EJ Grow smells like cat shit and the rest don't smell much better. I mean I got better results from EJ over Advanced so it is a very good product. Pickle may like it because it gives you more control having the Grow and Bloom where you can use together until Nitrogen isn't needed anymore then just cut Grow out.
I'll never stop using Roots Excelurator even though the big bottle costs 23 cents per gal to mix. I didn't use it on a plant recently and the roots were so far behind the exact strain I almost felt bad for her. I have to switch out of a 1 gal pot by the time a plant is 12-16 inches. The plant that didn't get it grew over 24 inches and still could of went further.
Thedillestpickle
Well-Known Member
haha yea I have nothing to compare to but what I saw with my roots... can't be normal! just so much white roots I was shocked.
I think someone should make a public service anouncement that ALL GROWERS SHOULD BE USING ROOTS EXCELLERATOR!
I don't know any details about the multizen or why it's different, I just assumed it was a mix of enzymes to break down dead material, like every other "zyme" product on the market. The feeding schedule for my multizen(canada) seems to indicate that is what it is. But the USA feeding chart seems to indicate it has some other function with the US formula. Kinda weird... guess I shoudl contact H&G about that(though I doubt they will be able to truly answer my question). They really should just make a write-up that clearly explains how their product works, or maybe get one of their reps in here to help out
My hydro store guy tells me there is a canna A+B for veg and a A+B for grow, so i might be switching over after this grow.
It's weird because H&G has such a wicked reputation for being the best, and yet it just doesn't add up. If the ideal NPK for bloom is 1-3-2 how on earth does the NPK for their coco provide good results?
Potassium is also in abundance in coco, so coco formulas usually have a lower amount of K to compensate, and yet if you look at the NPK of H&G there is a shitload of K. I added the NPK from the A and B together and got 11-7-18. This is the main reason why I want to have a different bloom nutrient. Look at that NPK ratio it is totally out of whack!
If coco requires less K than why is there so much K? and what the hell happened to phosphorous? Do the plants grown with H&G mysteriously not need phosphorous during bloom? It look really bad from an NPK perspective.
So i see that and think... this won't work. But everyone seems to love it
Just out of curiousity could anyone provide me with the NPK of H&G aquaflakes or H&G soil? thanks