preppers on here got a question

[RoninAmok]

I'm gonna wait it out in one of my 3rd floor apartments. Chainsaw off the deck so no one can enter without my raining bullets down from the high ground. Then after it's over I'll go manifest destiny everyone's abandoned shit.

Every consider just staying in and out of sight and saving your ammunition?

 

[Rottedroots]

Surviving on my own is not the problem but what do I do with the wife and kids? By myself I could grab a weapon/weapons and a loaded backback and solo it out with basic survival gear I already know how to use. It would be great if I all I needed was some rice and beans, fishing line, snare wire, mag stick and a bic, bag of weed, bivi bag, carton of smokes. wtf

It ALL boils down to the type of disaster. Is it nuclear, Viral, Bacterial, or natural disaster? Is it an economic meltdown, crop failure, hyperinflation. Makes a huge difference in what you can/should do.

I AM GONNA BE HUNKERING DOWN with very little on hand and with few preparations made. Even poorly prepared however I am better prepared than 99% of the population. The kids have their guns and the wife has hers. The two lowly mini 14's are both sighted in with UMC ammo. Cheap enough to stock pile and the girls would be deadly at 100 yards and under which is just about where a mini 14 wants to be anyway. One of the 14's carries a nice Nikon 1x4 and the other a Bushnell Holosight. Can't stand the 5 moa on the Holosight myself but the daughter can break skeets on the berm all day long. Question with the holosight is where do I find batteries NOW never mind after the shit flys. LOL Best thing I ever did with the 14's was to add after market integral weaver style bases by replacing the hand guard with a mini-scout mount. I like them!

I would toss the boy the Browning A-Bolt in 308. Sighted in for 150 gr. soft pointed core-locs but shoots a poor but effective group with UMC ammo or just about anything else. A decent Leopold VXll 2x7 rides that gun and the after market muzzle break seems to suppress flash pretty well. He understands that one shot is better than a 30 round clip.

I would probably grab the Rock River Predator. She is a beauty that really likes hornady ammo and I don't have much of that lying around. She is a heavy Varmint gun but a tack driver. I am only a fair shot and accept that but I can still hit a woodchuck sized object (rested) @ 250yards but I am sorry to admit that every weapon I own shoots better than I and they always will. (sigh). I figure with the Predator I will have the option of one shot or thirty. It's just such a heavy gun for lugging around.

Tell me this though.. If you were going to hit the road or retreat to the backwoods and you could only take two weapons what would they be. I know one of them would be a 10/22 and a brick of ammo. Thats a lot of shots. I figure it would be a squirell/small game gun but by the same token even though it's only a .22 an "enemy" would have to give it some serious thought before attacking or be certain that I had stores worthy of their trying to take. A frontal assault LOL on a 10/22 for a can of beens might not be worth it. It's the same idea as yotes and other predators NOT looking for a fight in which they might injure themselves.

Since this fine topic came up I know a .22 would go with me. I HAD a Henry .22 survival gun but it really shot like crap so it moved on. Anyone make any other self storing .22 recomendations???

After a lot of soul searching I think I might even make the Excalibur X-Bow one of my two. Have a least three dozen fresh arrows and piles of used with about half that many broadheads and a bunch of blunts and extra strings which I can change without a bow press. Deadly weapon out to 100 yards in some hands and quiet. The deer drop like flys when hit with a 125gr Spitfire or 100gr G5 Montec and I could get multiple shots out of the same arrow on game if I found the arrow. Just can't believe how quickly the deer pile up after being hit right. I would hate to let loose with a fire arm and lead people to me when the thump of a crossbow is "relatively" quiet. I'm just guess that the 3 bladed 2.5 inch cutting diameter would just as quickly stop a soft target like a human.

Fun topic with 100's of opinions.

 

[neosapien]

Every consider just staying in and out of sight and saving your ammunition?

I thought that was implied. You know with the whole waiting it out part. That is until someone tries to enter, then I murder them with extreme prejudice.

 

[Rottedroots]

So neo you mean you don't plan on standing on your roof yelling i'm king of the world and screaming hahaha over and over again. I figure those who are armed are looking for easy picking not a gun fight. If you have guns and ammo your already way ahead of most city folk. I say if you are stuck in a city wait it out and take the leavings. The only thing i am really missing is dry goods. It might not be as fun as it sounds. LOL.

 

[doublejj]

My wife & I are getting some chickens!

All this doomsday survival talk got me going. I have a corner of my yard that would be perfect for a chicken coop.
I'm gonna build one out of recycled lumber & some roofing tiles that I have on hand & get a couple of chickens.
We can always use the fresh eggs, & they are one hell of a survival tool!

peace
doublejj

 

[cannabineer]

Chickens RULE. Homegrown free-range eggs are like Technicolor compared to the B&W of store-bought eggs. And with chickens, no more earwigs, ever again. I'd decline a rooster however ... noisy nasty beats. cn

 

[James87]

I had some more thoughts about this.. Places that have zero population will probably get busy, so the strategy would be to get there first and deal with trespassers later.....

Also, the majority of people arming themselves will have M4 or M-16 variants.. and .22's.. and shotguns.. You can't really carry around a .50 BMG rifle if you're scouting or traveling, either. A team of two, sure, thats another story. BUT, if some crackheads are engaging me with their 5.56mm, I'll have 7.62mm with greater range and accuracy. The M4/16 are assault weapons, and are best used during squad tactics. Very small teams are probably better off with battle rifles.. but it depends on a number of variables such as the terrain, average sight distance, etc. You can use a .22 to maintain suppressive fire (via teamwork)... not much bark, but at short distances it will bite. If I was with a group of people where everybody had 5.56, I'd probably switch out for some indirect fire like as a mortar crew or grenade launcher. The more diversely-armed a group is, the better, because every situation will not be a compound assault.

 

[Stonerman Enoch]

I got a few horses and I am about to move to the mountains were I will get some more chickens and some more cattle. Plus there are rivers and streams nearby packed with trout. Plus deer, elk, and bear.

 

[cannabineer]

Respect the bear. cn

 

[RoninAmok]

Surviving on my own is not the problem but what do I do with the wife and kids? By myself I could grab a weapon/weapons and a loaded backback and solo it out with basic survival gear I already know how to use. It would be great if I all I needed was some rice and beans, fishing line, snare wire, mag stick and a bic, bag of weed, bivi bag, carton of smokes. wtf

It ALL boils down to the type of disaster. Is it nuclear, Viral, Bacterial, or natural disaster? Is it an economic meltdown, crop failure, hyperinflation. Makes a huge difference in what you can/should do.

I AM GONNA BE HUNKERING DOWN with very little on hand and with few preparations made. Even poorly prepared however I am better prepared than 99% of the population. The kids have their guns and the wife has hers. The two lowly mini 14's are both sighted in with UMC ammo. Cheap enough to stock pile and the girls would be deadly at 100 yards and under which is just about where a mini 14 wants to be anyway. One of the 14's carries a nice Nikon 1x4 and the other a Bushnell Holosight. Can't stand the 5 moa on the Holosight myself but the daughter can break skeets on the berm all day long. Question with the holosight is where do I find batteries NOW never mind after the shit flys. LOL Best thing I ever did with the 14's was to add after market integral weaver style bases by replacing the hand guard with a mini-scout mount. I like them!

I would toss the boy the Browning A-Bolt in 308. Sighted in for 150 gr. soft pointed core-locs but shoots a poor but effective group with UMC ammo or just about anything else. A decent Leopold VXll 2x7 rides that gun and the after market muzzle break seems to suppress flash pretty well. He understands that one shot is better than a 30 round clip.

I would probably grab the Rock River Predator. She is a beauty that really likes hornady ammo and I don't have much of that lying around. She is a heavy Varmint gun but a tack driver. I am only a fair shot and accept that but I can still hit a woodchuck sized object (rested) @ 250yards but I am sorry to admit that every weapon I own shoots better than I and they always will. (sigh). I figure with the Predator I will have the option of one shot or thirty. It's just such a heavy gun for lugging around.

Tell me this though.. If you were going to hit the road or retreat to the backwoods and you could only take two weapons what would they be. I know one of them would be a 10/22 and a brick of ammo. Thats a lot of shots. I figure it would be a squirell/small game gun but by the same token even though it's only a .22 an "enemy" would have to give it some serious thought before attacking or be certain that I had stores worthy of their trying to take. A frontal assault LOL on a 10/22 for a can of beens might not be worth it. It's the same idea as yotes and other predators NOT looking for a fight in which they might injure themselves.

Since this fine topic came up I know a .22 would go with me. I HAD a Henry .22 survival gun but it really shot like crap so it moved on. Anyone make any other self storing .22 recomendations???

After a lot of soul searching I think I might even make the Excalibur X-Bow one of my two. Have a least three dozen fresh arrows and piles of used with about half that many broadheads and a bunch of blunts and extra strings which I can change without a bow press. Deadly weapon out to 100 yards in some hands and quiet. The deer drop like flys when hit with a 125gr Spitfire or 100gr G5 Montec and I could get multiple shots out of the same arrow on game if I found the arrow. Just can't believe how quickly the deer pile up after being hit right. I would hate to let loose with a fire arm and lead people to me when the thump of a crossbow is "relatively" quiet. I'm just guess that the 3 bladed 2.5 inch cutting diameter would just as quickly stop a soft target like a human.

Fun topic with 100's of opinions.

Well. Grass grows in the scorched earth of commonground. Many facets for discussion.

Firstly have you weighted that bugout pack? Tested all the gear under adverse conditions? Culled the gear for the most part that's not " cross-usable"? Have you trained to huck that weight? Do you have a pack for each family member? Have they trained? Do they each have specifc tasks in case of emergency?

As regards " bug out bags" the setup is locale and situation dependent , what's optimum for an urban environment isn't remotely optimum for a rural environment , and the western prairies and high desert are different than Alaska bush or Lousiana swamps. But yes a .22lr is an integral part , a pistol in an urban kit and a rifle in a rural kit , in *neither* case is it primary except as a game getter.

Rural kit then includes a large caliber revolver , if brush country usually a .44 mag wheelgun/lever rifle combo , in Alaska it's a .44 mag or .454 casull and one of my " reach out and touch something" rifles or a Marlin Guide Gun in .45-70 for the far north the minimum bolt carry I will carry is 7mm mag , which I have very long experience with. I did utilise a Garand for years along with the Browning autoloaders but I've had both perform much , much less than optimally under extreme cold conditions.

Lower 48 plains style kit would just be a longer barreled sidearm ( 7.5 Redhawk.heavy but worth it) and something like the Savage dual-port I just built in .257 mag or any one of a number of other tackdrivers I have , maybe my favorite lightly modified and stone solid reliable Model 70 in 7mm mag ( yeah yeah I like the .284s...........and there's another sweet spot in the .338s).


Urban kit......220c , many spare mags , tanker garand or Mossberg 500 with ghost ring sights , buckshot and a few slugs for emergencies , drawback to a shotgun being limited range and weight of the ammo so it's usually the garand. And that kit goes in a lock box in my truck with the firearms in *another* locked box anytime I go to an urban area .

 

[RoninAmok]

I had some more thoughts about this.. Places that have zero population will probably get busy, so the strategy would be to get there first and deal with trespassers later.....

Also, the majority of people arming themselves will have M4 or M-16 variants.. and .22's.. and shotguns.. You can't really carry around a .50 BMG rifle if you're scouting or traveling, either. A team of two, sure, thats another story. BUT, if some crackheads are engaging me with their 5.56mm, I'll have 7.62mm with greater range and accuracy. The M4/16 are assault weapons, and are best used during squad tactics. Very small teams are probably better off with battle rifles.. but it depends on a number of variables such as the terrain, average sight distance, etc. You can use a .22 to maintain suppressive fire (via teamwork)... not much bark, but at short distances it will bite. If I was with a group of people where everybody had 5.56, I'd probably switch out for some indirect fire like as a mortar crew or grenade launcher. The more diversely-armed a group is, the better, because every situation will not be a compound assault.

Many good points. However don't underestimate a .22lr's range. And you bring us to the arguement that will offend many folks , that being the finicky nature of M4geries and the inherent drawbacks of .223 , and of course folks will come out of the woodwork with all the tails of fanciful shots.............SAVE IT...........because the above is true.

EXAMPLE: many of our casualties in the Afghan theater are via the medium of 7.62 x 54r in beat to shit Mosin-Nagants manufactured PRE WWII. With glass from that era. ballistically this cartridge falls *directly* between 7.62 x 51 (.308 win) and .30-06 and allows them to sit 200 yards outside the range of our forces equipped with .223 equipment in an autoloading platform and poke away until they hit something soft.



In addition. The focus should be S U R V I V AL..........escape and evasion is the order of the day unless it's an actual attack on the home base/domicile.


And now , any individual who doubts what I've stated here , well you're cordially invited to bring your M4geries and attend one of the NorCal Great Ground Squirrel shoots , bring plenty of ammo and I do mean plenty and expect to have LOADS of fun but also expect to get an education in hitting very small targets at very extended in the company of some of the most ballistically advanced folks in the world.........LITERALLY.

And you'll meet folks such as the 79 year old ( she will be in May) granny from Wyo who shows up with her Golf Bag of assorted rifles every year and a couple of years back back an 800PLUS shot in windy condition behind a .338 Lapua and who rings a 12 by 12 gong at 1500 REAL yards with regularity.

 

[RoninAmok]

Respect the bear. cn

ALWAYS. But also prepare for the Bear to attempt to demonstrate to you that you ARE NOT the " apex predator ". When up at Larsens Bay I don't even go to the outhouse without a heavy caliber sidearm , and a few years back a guy who lives about a 1/4 mile from the Lodge had to shoot one while he was setting on the throne , my cousin shot one just out of Kodiak one Thanksgiving that literally shoved it's head through the dining romm window during dinner.

The Big Bears have no enemies and they know it , if they decide you have something they want they may just try to take it. And before ****ANYONE**** starts in with the " pepper spray " bullshit , a bear that's close enough for the pepper spray to hit it should have been dead 25 feet ago.

 

[cannabineer]

Were I in genuine bear country, my .500L Bisley conversion would be close to hand. cn

 

[DelSlow]

Many good points. However don't underestimate a .22lr's range. And you bring us to the arguement that will offend many folks , that being the finicky nature of M4geries and the inherent drawbacks of .223 , and of course folks will come out of the woodwork with all the tails of fanciful shots.............SAVE IT...........because the above is true.

EXAMPLE: many of our casualties in the Afghan theater are via the medium of 7.62 x 54r in beat to shit Mosin-Nagants manufactured PRE WWII. With glass from that era. ballistically this cartridge falls *directly* between 7.62 x 51 (.308 win) and .30-06 and allows them to sit 200 yards outside the range of our forces equipped with .223 equipment in an autoloading platform and poke away until they hit something soft.



In addition. The focus should be S U R V I V AL..........escape and evasion is the order of the day unless it's an actual attack on the home base/domicile.


And now , any individual who doubts what I've stated here , well you're cordially invited to bring your M4geries and attend one of the NorCal Great Ground Squirrel shoots , bring plenty of ammo and I do mean plenty and expect to have LOADS of fun but also expect to get an education in hitting very small targets at very extended in the company of some of the most ballistically advanced folks in the world.........LITERALLY.

And you'll meet folks such as the 79 year old ( she will be in May) granny from Wyo who shows up with her Golf Bag of assorted rifles every year and a couple of years back back an 800PLUS shot in windy condition behind a .338 Lapua and who rings a 12 by 12 gong at 1500 REAL yards with regularity.

So would you say AR type rifles are not decent defensive guns, close-medium range? My friend wants to get either an AR or an AK, but I'm no expert so I told him to just get what he wanted.

Edit Would like to hear your opinion on AKs. I might pick one up soon.

 

[RoninAmok]

So would you say AR type rifles are not decent defensive guns, close range? My friend wants to get either an AR or an AK, but I'm no expert so I told him to just get what he wanted.

Sure , if you keep them micro-cleaned , lubed with proper lubes etc.etc.out to the 300 mark or so they're ok. However AKs are one HELL a lot more reliable and 7.62 x 39 is a much more servicable all-round cartridge , the drawback being the inherent inaccuracy of the AK platform unless you're willing to put some work into the thing.


If it's *real* close range 2o yards and under just tell him to buy a 12 gauge choked open cylinder or modified and a buncha buckshot , he will be ahead of the game , keep in mind that 00 buck is .34 or so caliber on average , 9 to 15 pellets a shell dependent on the load in 00........shortrange suppressive fire little equals a shotgun until you get to full-auto and the class 3s are not a civilian option and are relatively speaking ammunition wasting inefficient junk even in a combat theater , there are good reason why the " 3 shot " burst feature came about.

 

[RoninAmok]

Were I in genuine bear country, my .500L Bisley conversion would be close to hand. cn

That works ,most the bigbore centerfires will *work* but none of them even the above is optimum , and though you likely do the vast majority of folks in the Lower 48 don't know from BEARS , they're used to little pissant Black Bears that will mostly run off if you yell at them.

T'ain't quite the case with the Big Bears , yell at a Brownie he may just be so unconcerned as to just fart in your general direction or he may just take offense to your arrogance and knock your head off , but one thing he damn sure WON'T be is "scared" of you.

And the Big Bears aren't the only thing to look out for , you don't want to get crossways with a Moose , BELIEVE that , especially a cow with a calf or a bull during the Rut.


The fact is though that if you operate with a modicum of common sense you'll very rarely have enough conflict with a Bear to have to shoot 'em.

A buncha folks have gotten mauled 'cause the Bear came along while they were dressing a deer or the like out and they were stupid enough to argue the point.

By the way , all those Nature shows? They're for the most part grade A bullshit , the Bear that's serious about getting your ass isn't standing up , or pacing and popping it's jaws and chuffing , when the noise stops and the ears go back the f***er is coming for you ............and you ***ARE NOT*** going to outrun it , they can run down a quarter horse from behind and kill it for the first couple of hundred yards and are full speed after the first jump , nobody believes the speed until they've seen it.

 

[cannabineer]

No handgun is "optimum" for a big bear, but it's better than a sharp stick and a pocketknife. Thoughtfully-selected long guns, like a 12-gauge w/slugs or a .45-70 levergun, are far more suitable, but not always at hand. I do agree that proper behavior management by humans can remove most (but not all) of the threat of a bear encounter.

I see your point about the quarter horse. The remaining 75% of the horse won't take me far. cn

 

[RoninAmok]

No handgun is "optimum" for a big bear, but it's better than a sharp stick and a pocketknife. Thoughtfully-selected long guns, like a 12-gauge w/slugs or a .45-70 levergun, are far more suitable, but not always at hand. I do agree that proper behavior management by humans can remove most (but not all) of the threat of a bear encounter.

I see your point about the quarter horse. The remaining 75% of the horse won't take me far. cn

And of course you then have noted my abiding affection for the Marlin Guide Gun in .45-70 , and take my word for this next *your mileage MAY vary if you've had some luck*........don't bet your life on rifled slugs unless you're lucky enough to have a friend standing there with a .458 win mag who is very , very good , and that incident is why if it becomes necessary to shoot a bear I shoot them in the damn head , I don't hunt 'em for sport and I damn sure won't eat Bear.

4 Brennekes , right into the chest , not one had reached the vitals when we field dressed him and looked , one 400 grain .458 Swift A-Frame in the head....done.


I keep a .375 rum too , but never depend on a bolt action for close range Bear defense , that's a put the Moose , Caribou , Goat down at 500 and over 'cause your meat cache is empty rifle and do it with one round. And it's not a rifle you're going to shoot every day , I'm not recoil sensitive and I'm quite use to big bores and I still won't shoot more than a 30-40 rounds at a range sitting with it.

 

[cannabineer]

Actually, I haven't followed closely enough to read about the Guide Gun, but it stands to reason. Until I can afford a slightly-pre-owned hammerless sidelock double rifle (pref. by Purdy or H&H) in . 450 or .470, however ... ~grin~ cn

<edit> side-by-side, of course.

 

[RoninAmok]

My feelings on AKs. Well as I said if you're willing to do a bit of work they can be made accurate enough , they will however never be a " minute of angle" rifle , there's plenty of surplus ammo around , though a lot of it is junk corrosive and berdan primed steelcased BUT if you lay in cases 7.62 x 39 can be handloaded to good effect and *IF* you're willing to source a bolt gun for the cartridge or something like the H and R Handi-rifle you can load it easily to .30-30 THUMP and a bit more velocity , enough to make it a viable 300 yard rifle in the right hands.

And the above combo is one of the *cheapest most for the money combos* you can find , one of my caches has a similar setup save that it's an SKS ( easier to store more ammo on stripper clips and you don't have to worry about stressing mag sprinhs with longterm loaded storage) if I had to get to that cache I could do just fine with those and the .22lr revolver that accompanies them.

By the way take a look at that H and R , they can be ordered with interchangeable barrels and while an AK is NOT a tack driver and never will be the H and R IS **most certainly** a tackdriver in the right chamberings and with a bit of work , I have one here in .257 roberts that *consistently shoots under a half minute of angle from the bench. And it turns Ground Squirrels into red mist at extended ranges in a way you wouldn't believe , bucks wind much better that the .22-250AI or for that matter the .243 , and versatile enough to take antelope , deer or hogs with careful shooting.