Testing the Aerolife True HPA AA (Air Atomized) System -First run

[Trichy Bastard]

because cranking up the psi increases the flowrate.. AA`s can vary the droplet size independantly to the flowrate by the ratio of air pressure to water pressure (pressure fed) or air pressure and syphon height (syphon fed). Hydraulics can only be varied by the pressure, affecting both the droplet size and flowrate.

Yes, and this extra dimension of control is also what should allow the chamber that came with the kit to actually work -despite it's smaller size. The next move would to possibly use the nozzles in my deck chamber- but first I think it's proper to test the system as is. The one thing the chamber it came with -that was appealing to me is that it is quite insulated and was designed to be in full outdoor sunlight- so of course that was something I had to know- since it is a specific issue I have- lol... There are lots of AA nozzles out there- but not all of them are suited for growing plants with. If these nozzles do perform well, then in my book they are worth their weight in gold. They will be so simple to drop in any container or even rootbags like Mike, or just about anything you want- the size of the container being alot less of an issue than with hydraulic HPA...

 

[DIYer]

because cranking up the psi increases the flowrate.. AA`s can vary the droplet size independantly to the flowrate by the ratio of air pressure to water pressure (pressure fed) or air pressure and syphon height (syphon fed). Hydraulics can only be varied by the pressure, affecting both the droplet size and flowrate.

Yes just cranking the psi wouldn't make much sense, obviously you'll blow more out, not that you can't compensate with a bigger root chamber, but a lower flow rate nozzle, with a tighter mist angle could very well accomplish so close to the same thing you end up settling on after spending hundreds more. Then there comes a point you're over pimping the bottom, more then the top can benefit with only 12 hours of even direct sunlight a day. lol

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Yes just cranking the psi wouldn't make much sense, obviously you'll blow more out, not that you can't compensate with a bigger root chamber, but a lower flow rate nozzle, with a tighter mist angle could very well accomplish so close to the same thing you end up settling on after spending hundreds more. Then there comes a point you're over pimping the bottom, more then the top can benefit with only 12 hours of even direct sunlight a day. lol

I think there's is no such thing as "too healthy roots" - but of course there is a point where the cost and lengths you go doesn't make sense for the small difference in results. I suppose you should know something about me- and that is that I am not here to just grow pot like some of the other people here. I am pursuing a hobby and also an idea that this stuff can one day be used to more efficently feed the world. With using 90% less water and nutes, there has got to be some big promise in this stuff- much more than just growing good weed (although there is nuttin wrong with that either). This kit being as simple as it is, could be a promising step in the right direction. I can see these things in schools around the world to teach kids and get them interested in this stuff. I don't know if I ever told the story of how I got into hydro- but I was 15 at the time, and there was a Dyna-Gro booth set up at the LA county fair where they guy took hours telling me all about how it worked and how to build my own flood/drain pots. He sent me on my way with some rockwool cubes and a bottle of Dyna-gro and I grew some nice plants back then. I have been interested in blending the newest technology with growing plants ever since then. This is a great hobby for me because it fulfills alot of things for me that I find rewarding- Technology, Gardening, and being anything but mainstream. Apparently I also like writing now- and can add that to the list -lol...

 

[Atomizer]

Yes just cranking the psi wouldn't make much sense, obviously you'll blow more out, not that you can't compensate with a bigger root chamber, but a lower flow rate nozzle, with a tighter mist angle could very well accomplish so close to the same thing you end up settling on after spending hundreds more. Then there comes a point you're over pimping the bottom, more then the top can benefit with only 12 hours of even direct sunlight a day. lol

You should do more nozzle research to get a better idea of what will happen in your scenario`s. Here`s a quick 101
The lowest flow nozzles generally have a very high pressure requirement (500psi+) and a limited throw/ mist pattern (they can be expensive too, upto $50 apiece for stainless bete`s).
They have a much smaller orifice so clogging becomes more of an issue. A tighter mist pattern wont cover as well as one with a wider angle and every additional nozzle counts towards the overall flowrate.
Balancing coverage and flowrate is a catch 22 situation with hydraulics because of the interactions, notice how we compensate for the limitations (upto a point) by using sub 1 second pulses.
You can`t make a chamber larger without affecting the coverage, fixing the coverage affects the flowrate..you`ll just end up going around in circles.

 

[aerojunkie]

TB, just found your new thread. I knew it was only a matter of time before you took the plunge to AA. I am curious as to how the siphon/gravity fed nozzles are going to work for you. At one point fatman suggested I run siphon fed delevan nozzles but I opted for my current nozzles as I feel I have more control by utilizing pressure regulators. You will need to verify this but fatman explained that maintaining a constant water level in your reservoir will be necessary for a constant flow rate. Furthermore he mentioned that raising or lowering the fluid level in relation to the nozzle is the only way to adjust fluid flow. I'm curious as to how detrimental these levels are? I'm glad you opened another AA thread as mine has apparently taken a dive. I don't mind however as shorter threads tend to keep the pertinent info available to fly by night readers without requiring them to wade through unnecessary BS.

If you don't mind TB, Id like to take some time to thank DIYer for his thoughtful contributions to the thread thus far. His keen and and observant insight never ceases to amaze. I know for sure it will forever be unparalleled. DIYer if you would just take the time to create a thread detailing exactly how to create the perfect growing environment, it would really save the rest of us a hellofalot of time. This is probably too unreasonable to ask so if you could just PM me a list of things I "shouldn't do" I would really appreciate it. To compensate you for your time, I would even be willing to send you, via paypal, 50%... scratch that... 100% of the savings I acquire from the avoided blunders, as this would be a trifle in comparison to the knowledge I know I would gain. New thought, please allow me to put you on my monthly payroll just for the opportunity to sniff an occasional awe inspiring brain fart.

I don't know about the rest of you, but tonight I'm tipping my hat and putting down a cold one in DIYer's name... and I don't even drink! Cheers Mate.

 

[Ester]

I have followed your progress AeroJunkie from your High Pressure Air-Assisted Hydro-Atomized Aeroponic System (HPAAHAAS) thread. It was informative and interesting. Was the placement and number of nozzles the problem with the browning roots or was the mixure of the air and nutrients not giving you appropriate droplet sizes (small) or was it all the above?

Glad to see you trying out this rig Trichy Bastard and I hope you use the system as it was designed for the first run. I see where the solenoids will be very helpful in the long run but I'm curious if this engineer who designed the nozzles and there coverage has has figured out the appropriate dimensions or placements for your grow chamber. What are the inside dimensions of that grow chamber?

 

[aerojunkie]

I have followed your progress AeroJunkie from your High Pressure Air-Assisted Hydro-Atomized Aeroponic System (HPAAHAAS) thread. It was informative and interesting. Was the placement and number of nozzles the problem with the browning roots or was the mixure of the air and nutrients not giving you appropriate droplet sizes (small) or was it all the above?

Glad to see you trying out this rig Trichy Bastard and I hope you use the system as it was designed for the first run. I see where the solenoids will be very helpful in the long run but I'm curious if this engineer who designed the nozzles and there coverage has has figured out the appropriate dimensions or placements for your grow chamber. What are the inside dimensions of that grow chamber?

Thanks for following the thread Ester,

I actually came to the conclusion that my main problem was low nutrient levels. I was running an ec of around 700 approximately 360ppm which was fine for early clones in my cloner, however once I transferred them there was a complete lack of nutrients in order to feed the growth. I only realized this after I let a crop grow to maturity in my clone chamber. I was running into the same problem so I said screw it an Threw in what I thought was a crap ton of nutrients ec of around 1600 and they went nuts. I have a crop of clones in my cloner than I am photo documenting for my brother. I was planning on transplanting them to soil for the summer but I may throw a couple in the chamber to test my theory. Im pretty sure nute levels were the root of the root problem I just need to verify it. Oh and I will raise my nozzles to mid chamber as they have a full cone spray pattern and 20-30% of the mist is being sprayed into the root guard.

By the way. Its been four days since I took 12 cuttings. 5 of them just sprouted roots within the last 24 hours the longest being 1/4". At the very least AAA makes a bitchin cloner.

 

[Trichy Bastard]

I have followed your progress AeroJunkie from your High Pressure Air-Assisted Hydro-Atomized Aeroponic System (HPAAHAAS) thread. It was informative and interesting. Was the placement and number of nozzles the problem with the browning roots or was the mixure of the air and nutrients not giving you appropriate droplet sizes (small) or was it all the above?

Glad to see you trying out this rig Trichy Bastard and I hope you use the system as it was designed for the first run. I see where the solenoids will be very helpful in the long run but I'm curious if this engineer who designed the nozzles and there coverage has has figured out the appropriate dimensions or placements for your grow chamber. What are the inside dimensions of that grow chamber?

Thanks for the kind words and glad to have you around here Ester. I decided it would be only fair to begin testing the system as it was designed- and go from there. I am using the chamber that sells with the nozzles as a complete kit- if you look at the pictures there are holes already strategically placed for the nozzles and they just slide right in and sit there- so simple to pull them out and service them the way they are designed. I need to post more about todays testing, I decided to place both nozzles in the chamber and will see how that goes. Tomorrow I want to see what the temperature readings in the chamber are throughout the day in the sun without any additional cooling measures. I plan to try growing something in there very soon, and just have to decide if I want to go from seed or clone first.

Aerojunkie- so good to hear from you my friend... Your sense of humor is always a welcome part of my aero threads... I am glad to hear you may have sorted out your previous issues- and hope that is the case. It is true about the height being very important to the fluid draw and it much effects the mist size and density. Basically the gravity effects the siphon in exactly the same way that adjusting the liquid pressure on your system would be if you think about it. I plan to incorporate a method of topping off the water levels so it is always a constant height- I just have to figure out what that optimal height is... It sounds like you are getting roots faster than Paris Hilton after her last bleaching- Awesome to hear!!! (BTW- I'd like to know what timings, etc. you used to achieve such a quick rooting)- I realize every system is different and that the same timings will be different in my chamber but I just want sort of a rough idea of what you are doing there as well as what type of cloning gel and nutrients if any you are running for that.

 

[hammer21]

Along for the ride looks interesting

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Along for the ride looks interesting

Heya Hammer- good to see you found your way here... I hope you will keep us posted on your latest innovations too..

 

[DIYer]

If you don't mind TB, Id like to take some time to thank DIYer for his thoughtful contributions to the thread thus far. His keen and and observant insight never ceases to amaze. I know for sure it will forever be unparalleled. DIYer if you would just take the time to create a thread detailing exactly how to create the perfect growing environment, it would really save the rest of us a hellofalot of time. This is probably too unreasonable to ask so if you could just PM me a list of things I "shouldn't do" I would really appreciate it. To compensate you for your time, I would even be willing to send you, via paypal, 50%... scratch that... 100% of the savings I acquire from the avoided blunders, as this would be a trifle in comparison to the knowledge I know I would gain. New thought, please allow me to put you on my monthly payroll just for the opportunity to sniff an occasional awe inspiring brain fart. I don't know about the rest of you, but tonight I'm tipping my hat and putting down a cold one in DIYer's name... and I don't even drink! Cheers Mate.

Funny,.. i didn't realize you only wanted threads where ass kissing and thumbs up were all that went on. If you don't realize, that there very much is a point where the expense is no longer justified by the added yield, and parts of this system as it was sold, and the constant 12/12 light he gets, flirts dangerously with cutting a grow off at the knees, then i'm afraid you don't have enough money to afford me on your payroll. That's all I've been pointing out. Well that and other "warts" to be ready to lance in this system. I assume TB's not doing this to see if he can just grow a plant in the thing, i assume some maxing of potential is the goal right? So i can't say what others have echoed already, i can't point at knowledge already learned in that other 200+ page thread?.. lol.. Get over yourself kid.

 

[aerojunkie]

TB, for this run, I ran straight RO until my plants rooted. I just added nutrients last night at an EC of around 800. A couple of tricks I use is to remove some of the empty net pots so that my mist travels from the chamber up into the canopy area inside my humidome. With this method my plants look the same after 4 days as they did the day I cut them. There is no wilting, and no apparent stress. I can not stress enough the benefits of a humidome. This last test I did without a heating element inside the chamber. I am going to add one next run and hopefully cut my time even further. My heating element is a standard 100 watt fish tank heater placed in a separate reservoir inside the chamber. My rooting hormone is 2 year old clonex gel that has turned from its familiar purple hue to dark grey. The cycle times don't seem to be as detrimental in the cloning stage. I normally increase times depending on the moisture in the canopy. If the condensation on the humidome appears to be dwindling, I will either increase spray times or remove a few more net pots. imo a great benefit of AA is that the fine mist does not immediately flush the rooting hormone from the stalk like a DWC bubbler does.

IMO throw a clone in that B... much faster results. In fact, I would even try rooting in it. You can easily fab a box frame similar to the one in their video and throw some clear vinyl or poly over it. You could even use clear plastic wrap if you cant find vinyl. It would be interesting to see your results from cutting to flower in this single chamber.

 

[aerojunkie]

Funny,.. i didn't realize you only wanted threads where ass kissing and thumbs up were all that went on. If you don't realize, that there very much is a point where the expense is no longer justified by the added yield, and parts of this system as it was sold, and the constant 12/12 light he gets, flirts dangerously with cutting a grow off at the knees, then i'm afraid you don't have enough money to afford me on your payroll. That's all I've been pointing out. Well that and other "warts" to be ready to lance in this system. I assume TB's not doing this to see if he can just grow a plant in the thing, i assume some maxing of potential is the goal right? So i can't say what others have echoed already, i can't point at knowledge already learned in that other 200+ page thread?.. lol.. Get over yourself kid.

Sniff!!! mmmmmmm... Smells like a spring rose, keep those brain farts coming!

 

[DIYer]

There are lots of AA nozzles out there- but not all of them are suited for growing plants with.

How do you know? You bought and tried all them to? lol
No but really, if you're gonna feed the world or something close to it, you better first work on bringing the cost down. $1000 a plant pod ain't feeding no skinny kids no where, lol.. Ok I'm done laughing at how much you spent, sorry. But like in a 14 plant perpetual grow like mine, which is more like what i would imagine could feed some hungry, you couldn't even think if going AA at a buck sixty a noz,.. maybe there be some paint sprayer, or fuel injection AA sprayers out there for much cheaper that would work the same AA power spray magic?

If these nozzles do perform well, then in my book they are worth their weight in gold. They will be so simple to drop in any container or even rootbags like Mike, or just about anything you want- the size of the container being alot less of an issue than with hydraulic HPA...

What noz's are hard to drop in to any container? And aren't we already filling trash cans full of roots with hydraulic HPA? So,.. don't you need bigger to even fit more roots? And in turn get more fruit above which is ultimately the goal if you're gonna feed the world. This is just where i think you're back tracking is all, but doing donuts can be fun i admit.

 

[Atomizer]

Ordered my parts last week, got most of them in,.. still waiting on the JG and 10gal acc, then i get to play

has your hardware arrived yet? Looking forward to seeing some amazing root pics

 

[DIYer]

I'm waiting on a proper timer from Infitec, takes 2 weeks to manufacture for some reason,.. but with dip switches, can do down to .1 sec on time more reliably then timers with dials, and for half the cost of what some folks waste on simple cycle timers. You know very well you don't need to wait on root porn from anyone for my point about, 'been there done that' to be proven right

 

[Atomizer]

2 weeks lead time? takes me about 20 minutes to knock up a timer with custom pulse/pause ranges, its easy enough if your handy with a soldering iron. I dont like dials much, i prefer 12-way rotary switches.
I`ll be testing a software based timing control on the outdoor chamber this year, hopefully integrating a lux sensor that will alter the mist timing based on current light intensity. Indoor growing is easier..the light is either on or off.

 

[DIYer]

2 weeks lead time? takes me about 20 minutes to knock up a timer with custom pulse/pause ranges, its easy enough if your handy with a soldering iron. I dont like dials much, i prefer 12-way rotary switches.
I`ll be testing a software based timing control on the outdoor chamber this year, hopefully integrating a lux sensor that will alter the mist timing based on current light intensity. Indoor growing is easier..the light is either on or off.

Well then knock it up and hand deliver it to me already, lol.. They must get um from over seas, oh well im not in hurry. I made my own LED arrays, so i can burn myself with a soldering iron better then most. You know it takes a bit more knowledge then that to build a timer though. I could figure it out, but when it cost me $30 and 10 minutes (once i get it), to make a quad cycle timer that adjusts misting duration when lights go out, why bother since i am indoors.
I was thinking of using a light sensor too, in cooperation with a pulley/motor to raise/lower a solar shade covering the south facing window in my grow room, but with spring here suns already too high in the sky to even bother with it. It'd only be beneficial for fall and winter months, worth it, but not worth my time for a bit.

Is light intensity alone enough of a factor to dictate misting cycles? Overall temp would have more to do with what plants transpire, and need put back would be my first thought. Whatever factor is monitored though, there's going to be some equating going on between what you read, and what you have the software do, so what factors can be read that are the most telling of a plants immediate need for misting? From what I've read round here nothing that actually touches the plant is doable, makes me wonder if RH, Temp, and weather or not the suns out would all be factors in need of monitoring, i mean if you're going to pull out that tiny screwdriver and attempt to tweak that little screw at all

 

[Trichy Bastard]

TB, for this run, I ran straight RO until my plants rooted. I just added nutrients last night at an EC of around 800. A couple of tricks I use is to remove some of the empty net pots so that my mist travels from the chamber up into the canopy area inside my humidome. With this method my plants look the same after 4 days as they did the day I cut them. There is no wilting, and no apparent stress. I can not stress enough the benefits of a humidome. This last test I did without a heating element inside the chamber. I am going to add one next run and hopefully cut my time even further. My heating element is a standard 100 watt fish tank heater placed in a separate reservoir inside the chamber. My rooting hormone is 2 year old clonex gel that has turned from its familiar purple hue to dark grey. The cycle times don't seem to be as detrimental in the cloning stage. I normally increase times depending on the moisture in the canopy. If the condensation on the humidome appears to be dwindling, I will either increase spray times or remove a few more net pots. imo a great benefit of AA is that the fine mist does not immediately flush the rooting hormone from the stalk like a DWC bubbler does.

IMO throw a clone in that B... much faster results. In fact, I would even try rooting in it. You can easily fab a box frame similar to the one in their video and throw some clear vinyl or poly over it. You could even use clear plastic wrap if you cant find vinyl. It would be interesting to see your results from cutting to flower in this single chamber.

Thanks AJ- I fully agree the humidome is a good way to go. I also let a netpot hole or two open under my dome when cloning for just the same purpose. My first cloning attempt was in direct sunlight and alot of wind, and I quickly realized the best environment was no wind, and very toned down light with good humidity- (obviously the lack of roots don't allow the plant to recover the fluids lost in transpiration being the lesson learned). I was also thinking this thing would be great at cloning- I could cut out 20 holes in the lid (or even a temporary lid just for cloning) and this would probably be a great cloner if nothing else.

I fired the nozzles last night under a bright flashlight, and wow- there was a big plume like Atomizer showed in his pics. Funny how it looks like nothing more than a single hand spray bottle pump in the daylight against the white chamber background. This fog is definitely going to better at penetrating and filling a rootchamber than the hydraulic nozzles were. I think there is some promise here.

Despite the fact I am starting out in the chamber they sell, DIYer- it is going to be easy to add these nozzles to any other chamber I build. The thing as I mentioned before is a brute trash can would be great for these as a larger chamber- but I have insulation issues in the sunlight, I wanted to learn how much the insulation would help things, and didn't have the time to build my own insulated chamber right now. Alot of people out there don't like building stuff like we do, so they will only use what comes in the kit- and I wanted to prove whether it would work or not. It was just too easy man, the whole thing setup in less than an hour from the time I unboxed it- that's got to be worth something because my time is worth money too. I'm done talking about this for now, your point is made, and now it's my turn to see if I can get this thing to work despite all the other details- so just go with me on that and lets move on to some more productive conversation.

 

[Atomizer]

Trichy,
now you know how much mist is there you can use a stopwatch and see how long it takes to disappear A hi res camera is the best tool for clocking AA mist, your eyes only see a fraction of whats actually there.