Care Giver..or Drug Dealer?

[purklize]

Well, usually the people with the funds tend to do it right, they are not desperate for a quick buck, they go the legal route. My point was that people who can hardly afford the equip & still choose to CG with hopes of making $$$ is the wrong approach to growing buds. big difference.

Who cares if it's usually the broke cheap fks who break the law in regards to mmj, maybe they should not try to play the system. This is not a morality discussion, I am speaking in regards to what is deemed Legal and illegal.. in reality. it is the poorer cashcroppers who go to jail. not the Rich elaborate peoples grow. <3

The best stuff I have smoked was always grown in a closet, tent, or bedroom. The stuff I grow in my tent next to my bed is better than anything I've gotten from a large commercial crop. The large commercial operations also attract the attention of the feds and here in Michigan the state cops as well. The attorney general, Bill Schuette, has declared that if you are a caregiver, you must keep each set of 12 plants physically separated in their own locked, enclosed facilities. I haven't seen a commercial operation do this. In reality it is the large commercial operations that are after the quick buck. They never even get to know the patients they supply, unlike a caregiver. Their prices tend to be higher too, their stuff typically ends up on the shelf for $20/g or $400/oz and up, I've even seen $500-600/oz from some dispensaries that were growing their own in a well equipped, "professional" setting like you described. They don't do it for the love of the plant, or as an extension of their own medical grow - they do it purely for profit. Here in Michigan the "pros" are under heavy fire from the authorities but the law abiding caregivers are not.

Again, California is not Michigan... you seem to be assuming everything about California MMJ defines Michigan MMJ.

 

[RawBudzski]

The best stuff I have smoked was always grown in a closet, tent, or bedroom. The stuff I grow in my tent next to my bed is better than anything I've gotten from a large commercial crop. The large commercial operations also attract the attention of the feds and here in Michigan the state cops as well. The attorney general, Bill Schuette, has declared that if you are a caregiver, you must keep each set of 12 plants physically separated in their own locked, enclosed facilities. I haven't seen a commercial operation do this. In reality it is the large commercial operations that are after the quick buck. They never even get to know the patients they supply, unlike a caregiver. Their prices tend to be higher too, their stuff typically ends up on the shelf for $20/g or $400/oz and up, I've even seen $500-600/oz from some dispensaries that were growing their own in a well equipped, "professional" setting like you described. They don't do it for the love of the plant, or as an extension of their own medical grow - they do it purely for profit. Here in Michigan the "pros" are under heavy fire from the authorities but the law abiding caregivers are not.

Again, California is not Michigan... you seem to be assuming everything about California MMJ defines Michigan MMJ.

Correct, I know little about michigan. Though I find it hard to believe that your ratio of Shit CGs :: Good CGs is any better than ours.

Reality is, MMJ is a boomin business & as long as that is the case. There will be those abusing it, more ppl abusing it than those who are totally legit & benefitting health wise imo. Big $ attracts the opposite of the patient loving croud you speak of.

 

[purklize]

2x DIFFERENT TYPES OF CAREGIVERS DAMNIT ! THOSE WHO GO BIG SCALE & SUPPLY THE PATIENTS & ALL EXTRA MEDS GO THROUGH A CLINIC/DISPENSARY.

Those who are small scale & try to nickle & dime their patients meds from home.. Big difference.

You have everything backwards. Here in Michigan those who sell only to their patients are considered completely law abiding. Those who sell to dispensaries are under heavy fire and getting raided. Dispensaries have been declared illegal by our courts in a miscarriage of justice.

 

[afrawfraw]

It's been my experience that if a commercial grow is going to thrive and produce quality medicine, you need at least one experienced grower per 18 plants. Sharing profit with more growers keeps most commercial grows understaffed, and therefore attention has to be spread over more plants. Kinda like a student to teacher ratio in public schools. The lower the plant to grower ratio, the better the results.

 

[RawBudzski]

You have everything backwards. Here in Michigan those who sell only to their patients are considered completely law abiding. Those who sell to dispensaries are under heavy fire and getting raided. Dispensaries have been declared illegal by our courts in a miscarriage of justice.

You don't understand what I am saying, I am speaking about the caregivers who Take the EXTRA MEDS they Do not give to their patients, & sell those meds to the neighbors & friends. That shyt will get your door kicked in just as quick as the dispensaries.


You underestimate just How much the IRS hates people evading taxes, it is the IRS that is sending in the bullies to the dispensaries, it's about $$$. So if someone is "working from home" growing pot & making a decent living by selling meds to people, good luck to them when they get audited by the IRS.

 

[afrawfraw]

You don't understand what I am saying, I am speaking about the caregivers who Take the EXTRA MEDS they Do not give to their patients, & sell those meds to the neighbors & friends. That shyt will get your door kicked in just as quick as the dispensaries.


You underestimate just How much the IRS hates people evading taxes, it is the IRS that is sending in the bullies to the dispensaries, it's about $$$. So if someone is "working from home" growing pot & making a decent living by selling meds to people, good luck to them when they get audited by the IRS.

If someone is "Working from home" and is clearing enough to alert the IRS, there whole "Home" is a grow show. No one with 12-18 plants is clearing enough to purchase a new car or anything crazy. I do know that buying an engine and transmission and having it installed doesn't alert them.

 

[purklize]

How many times do I have to say that I'm not talking about caregivers selling illegally on the black market?

Also given the knowledge that you are in California I understand why you said growers should just get a job - you aren't familiar with the job market in Michigan. I have friends who've moved from Michigan to California recently who are still telling me how much better things are there. I would like to leave but cannot for now. One guy was making minimum wage doing software programming and now he's in California making 50/hour with great benefits doing the exact same thing. I know countless people with advanced degrees, even a guy with a double PhD from MIT, who have been searching for work for years and turned up nothing. It's a whole different world here.

 

[RawBudzski]

If someone is "Working from home" and is clearing enough to alert the IRS, there whole "Home" is a grow show. No one with 12-18 plants is clearing enough to purchase a new car or anything crazy. I do know that buying an engine and transmission and having it installed doesn't alert them.

;D a grow show

 

[bob harris]

You have everything backwards. Here in Michigan those who sell only to their patients are considered completely law abiding. Those who sell to dispensaries are under heavy fire and getting raided. Dispensaries have been declared illegal by our courts in a miscarriage of justice.

That's true..patients may grow only for themselves, and cg's may only grow for direct patients. Basically, they have outlawed any distribution, so that the patients who can't grow have to assign a cg..or can't legally acquire meds.

That ruling is going to be heard by the supreme court, and we can only hope that they will correct the situation.

However, had all these caregivers not abused the laws so much in the first place, p2p may not of been banned. "care givers" have caused most of the problems in Michigan...they deny that and say that it was going to happen anyways, but we will never know how the State would have reacted had the med law been used responsibly in the first place.

Remember, Michigan was what, the 15th State to pass a med law? Michigan government had plenty of States to look at as far as how the law was implemented, and the problems other States had. Using that history, they were all over the loophole seekers on day one. But of course, the greedy Michigan element couldn't grasp that the State might have some brains and expect the influx of "care givers". So they did exactly what the State expected, and ruined things for the true patients and cg's.

The cg system was meant to be set up so that the cg made his money directly from their assigned patients, and it was never intended to be a "career'. Had cg's simply used only the number of plants they needed to do that, they would have made good income for smaller grows. But way too many went full plant count, then started "farmers markets" and fly by night dispensaries to sell their huge overages..didn't take the state long to realize that the law was being abused. They reacted by shutting down all transfers pretty much.

We can only hope that the supreme Court makes a sensible ruling on p2p and cg transfers.

 

[purklize]

I wish the CoA ruling had never happened. When we had dispensaries, farmer's markets, assigned caregivers, and independent P2P sales, patients had a LOT of options. But now they have very few. It's sad. If they can't find an honest caregiver who keeps his/her word, they're screwed. Before it wasn't that big of a deal as they could go buy from someone else if the caregiver didn't come through and all they lost was the $10 caregiver change fee. We really need P2P for the situation here to be good for patients.

 

[bob harris]

I wish the CoA ruling had never happened. When we had dispensaries, farmer's markets, assigned caregivers, and independent P2P sales, patients had a LOT of options. But now they have very few. It's sad. If they can't find an honest caregiver who keeps his/her word, they're screwed. Before it wasn't that big of a deal as they could go buy from someone else if the caregiver didn't come through and all they lost was the $10 caregiver change fee. We really need P2P for the situation here to be good for patients.

I agree. p2p from patients who grow to patients that don't makes total sense. I could produce about 9 oz per month with 12 plants...far more than I need. I'd sure like to be able to pass on 7 of those for say a $100 donation legally..that would net me free meds and maybe a couple hundred a month in"profit" for my time (not the cannabis)..and I'd be thrilled.....but care giver abuse has ruined that.

I'd like to see them make p2p legal for patients, with out needing cg status to do so. then rule that cg's can ONLY transfer to direct patients. Takes all the"fun" out of it for the profiteers...If you are a patient..you can help others with your plant count, once you take on a cg status, patient or not, you can only distribute to direct patients on your cg card.

That allows anyone that truly wants to be a care giver to do so, but only makes CG status worthwhile if you actually need the plant count for a Simpson oil patient or something. It's laughable that people try and claim that 12 plants isn't enough for more than one average patient.

 

[purklize]

I think it would be more accurate to say that dispensaries caused the downfall of P2P - technically they were caregivers, but they had a pretty different business model, and it was the one that attracted the ire of Darth Schuette.

What I would like to see is patients asking caregivers to sign a contract mandating that they provide a certain amount of meds a month, and have the courts actually enforce said contracts without harassing either party for the mj involved. I think this would solve the problem of patients being left high and dry because their meds were being sold elsewhere. If the patients are cared for, and they say specifically they don't need or want the extra, I think it makes sense to dispense it at a farmer's market instead.

It's laughable that people try and claim that 12 plants isn't enough for more than one average patient.

Unless they are doing Sea of Green, or keeping a ton of moms to preserve a large amount of genetic diversity, I can't see the need either. I never have more than 8 plants, I have a veg tent and a larger flower tent. I see zero need to have more. In fact even though I do "horrendously wasteful" things recreational smokers would cry if they saw, like smear hash oil all over myself on a daily basis, and even though I turn almost everything into hash of some form, I still have to shut down now and then to stay within my weight limits. If I got a bigger light I'm sure I could grow a pound off just one DWC bucket. I've seen half a pound come from one DWC bucket under a 400w HPS, so I don't see why you couldn't get a pound with a 600w or especially 1000w. If I really wanted to I'm sure I could sign up a patient or two and keep them happy, and that's just with one 400w HPS and a few DWC buckets. But, all bets are off if they are a cancer patient in need of a lot of Simpson oil, then yeah, like you said, a higher ceiling may be justified.

 

[bob harris]

I think it would be more accurate to say that dispensaries caused the downfall of P2P - technically they were caregivers, but they had a pretty different business model, and was the one that attracted the ire of Darth Schuette.

What I would like to see is patients asking caregivers to sign a contract mandating that they provide a certain amount of meds a month, and have the courts actually enforce said contracts without harassing either party for the mj involved. I think this would solve the problem of patients being left high and dry because their meds were being sold elsewhere. If the patients are cared for, and they say specifically they don't need or want the extra, I think it makes sense to dispense it at a farmer's market instead.

Yes, the action of the Dispensaries had a lot to do with it..as you pointed out they were calling themselves "Caregivers"...If they came out and said Farmers markets were ok, I'd be somewhat ok with that. The only issue I'd have is that it doesn't help the patient grower...someone like me could only take 2.5 oz to the market legally, and unless it was really close..that would be almost a wasted trip after paying the "table fee" .

I've got a feeling we are much more likely to see a dispensary system than farmers Markets...but I sure hope the approve some distribution system, or it guts the purpose of the law...and punishes patients.

 

[purklize]

That's a good point about the farmer's markets. Perhaps if they loosened up on the enforcement they could be open air/in public spaces like it was at Hash Bash in 2011, that would cut costs tremendously. Probably won't happen anytime soon though. We obviously do need a better distribution system like you say, the whole process is far too sluggish and clumsy if it's only caregivers - though caregivers may be preferred for a lot of reasons, such as the ability to grow specific strains on request, deliveries, and a friend to talk to... a lot of severely ill people are also very lonely.

If I could change anything I wanted, I would have P2P back, have the patient plant count changed so that you could have 6 flowering plants, unlimited vegetative plants (for purposes of being able to hang onto a lot of genetics/moms, or supply clones), and raise the patient weight limit so that they could have up to 1lb dry weight, including medible weight - but the medibles would be counted as how much cannabis (that is 30% THC) would be required to make the medibles. So if you had 1lb, and used 8oz to make a ton of brownies, you would still be in the clear. Letting patients have a pound would make it possible for them to grow enough to make a lot of Simpson oil. Oh, and going over your limits would be a fine and confiscation of the overage/extra plants for donation to a needy patient.

 

[Cory and trevor]

Those who can, do....those who can't cry on the internet and complain and whine like little kids. Anyone ever seen Eddie Murphy's RAW? "You aint got no ice cream cuz you on welfare nah nah..." Tommy has an xbox and all I got is a damn Wii, this isn't fair! I HATE YOU NINTENDO! Billy gets to eat poptarts for breakfast and I don't, I want poptarts. grow up and go get you some poptarts, bake em yourself, there is a recipe book and a cool store that sells all the stuff how hard can it be. I don't believe anyone who says it's easy. anyone who calls this easy isn't doing it. Anyone that it is easy for now has done it many times already and has gone through the growing pains to get it set just right and still wouldn't call it easy. If you've done it, good bad or indifferent outcome you know it's not easy. people who don't do it have magic math (12 plants equals 19 ounces or primo 45 week flowering sativa every 10 minutes with a power cost of .12 cents per kwh and free water and dirt and shouldn't be charging more then 8 cents a pound)

 

[afrawfraw]

Those who can, do....those who can't cry on the internet and complain and whine like little kids. Anyone ever seen Eddie Murphy's RAW? "You aint got no ice cream cuz you on welfare nah nah..." Tommy has an xbox and all I got is a damn Wii, this isn't fair! I HATE YOU NINTENDO! Billy gets to eat poptarts for breakfast and I don't, I want poptarts. grow up and go get you some poptarts, bake em yourself, there is a recipe book and a cool store that sells all the stuff how hard can it be. I don't believe anyone who says it's easy. anyone who calls this easy isn't doing it. Anyone that it is easy for now has done it many times already and has gone through the growing pains to get it set just right and still wouldn't call it easy. If you've done it, good bad or indifferent outcome you know it's not easy. people who don't do it have magic math (12 plants equals 19 ounces or primo 45 week flowering sativa every 10 minutes with a power cost of .12 cents per kwh and free water and dirt and shouldn't be charging more then 8 cents a pound)

Easy and Hard are relative terms. I find growing easy. My nutrients mix up the same way koolaid does...An exact amount of water, and a couple powders, also measured out. Spending an hour or two a day in my garden is hardly "Hard". I consider trimming twice as difficult as growing the damn things.

 

[bob harris]

Easy and Hard are relative terms. I find growing easy. My nutrients mix up the same way koolaid does...An exact amount of water, and a couple powders, also measured out. Spending an hour or two a day in my garden is hardly "Hard". I consider trimming twice as difficult as growing the damn things.

Trimming is the bitch...and the time eater.

 

[bob harris]

Those who can, do....those who can't cry on the internet and complain and whine like little kids. Anyone ever seen Eddie Murphy's RAW? "You aint got no ice cream cuz you on welfare nah nah..." Tommy has an xbox and all I got is a damn Wii, this isn't fair! I HATE YOU NINTENDO! Billy gets to eat poptarts for breakfast and I don't, I want poptarts. grow up and go get you some poptarts, bake em yourself, there is a recipe book and a cool store that sells all the stuff how hard can it be. I don't believe anyone who says it's easy. anyone who calls this easy isn't doing it. Anyone that it is easy for now has done it many times already and has gone through the growing pains to get it set just right and still wouldn't call it easy. If you've done it, good bad or indifferent outcome you know it's not easy. people who don't do it have magic math (12 plants equals 19 ounces or primo 45 week flowering sativa every 10 minutes with a power cost of .12 cents per kwh and free water and dirt and shouldn't be charging more then 8 cents a pound)

It is relatively easy..Sounds like you are someone who "can't".

 

[bloodytrichomes]

nothing in life is easy

 

[afrawfraw]

nothing in life is easy

I'm sorry you've had such a hard life. In my experiences, SOME things in life are hard, but not all.