Care Giver..or Drug Dealer?

SketchyGrower

Well-Known Member
Come on fellas..... It's not that hard to grow but, it's not like you just drop a seed in the ground and wait..there is some intelligent thinking that has to happen. As far as equipment,time,quality these are all circumstantial..(what one person thinks is good another may not). I spent about 2-3 hrs a day in between each room clones,moms,veg,flowers not really working as in watering,trimming,cleaning,ext.. More as in checking for bugs,hermies and other potential problems. I probably don't need to spend all that time but, I like to be safe then sorry...

my point being who are we to tell anyone something is easy? It's like an accountant telling a baker taxes are easy... I'm not sticking up for ass hats charging $400 a zip but, to say every grower should get the same amount you get or better from the same amount of money and time spent in your set up is ridiculous ... IMHO

I
 

Timmahh

Well-Known Member
Come on fellas..... It's not that hard to grow but, it's not like you just drop a seed in the ground and wait..there is some intelligent thinking that has to happen. As far as equipment,time,quality these are all circumstantial..(what one person thinks is good another may not). I spent about 2-3 hrs a day in between each room clones,moms,veg,flowers not really working as in watering,trimming,cleaning,ext.. More as in checking for bugs,hermies and other potential problems. I probably don't need to spend all that time but, I like to be safe then sorry...

my point being who are we to tell anyone something is easy? It's like an accountant telling a baker taxes are easy... I'm not sticking up for ass hats charging $400 a zip but, to say every grower should get the same amount you get or better from the same amount of money and time spent in your set up is ridiculous ... IMHO

I

Very much so Sketch. Different strokes for different folks.
 

bloodytrichomes

New Member
Come on fellas..... It's not that hard to grow but, it's not like you just drop a seed in the ground and wait..there is some intelligent thinking that has to happen. As far as equipment,time,quality these are all circumstantial..(what one person thinks is good another may not). I spent about 2-3 hrs a day in between each room clones,moms,veg,flowers not really working as in watering,trimming,cleaning,ext.. More as in checking for bugs,hermies and other potential problems. I probably don't need to spend all that time but, I like to be safe then sorry...

my point being who are we to tell anyone something is easy? It's like an accountant telling a baker taxes are easy... I'm not sticking up for ass hats charging $400 a zip but, to say every grower should get the same amount you get or better from the same amount of money and time spent in your set up is ridiculous ... IMHO

I
very well put
 

ozzrokk

Well-Known Member
Hey bob can you point to me in the McQueen case that says a caregiver cannot transfer to a patient that is not connected through the registry. Now this practice may or may not be considered legal and that depends on what area you are in. But the MtcQueen coa did NOT rule on that AT ALL. Show me bob. You prove time and time you know nothing about this law or even anything that is really going on the reality is you are figuring out when people point it out to you. Then you still try to spin it.

Bob if you are not a cop or some other official , which I and many others are sure you are, then I think I have figured out what your problem is.
Could it be that you have a drug felony and cannot become a caregiver? Nawwww You are to much of a rat for that.

Edited to add. Dont bring to me what is says about P2P bring to me what they say about CG2ANY PT.
 

purklize

Active Member
Growing remains a relative experience, it seems. Some of you have never faced real problems in the garden and so for you, it seems easy. Others have fought serious infestations among other issues, and if you think trimming is bad, try cleaning up after a russet infestation. I have spent the last week scrubbing literally every last object in the bedroom and taking those I can't scrub and soaking them either in a bathtub full of near boiling water or baking them in the oven. Very tedious. Fighting the pests themselves was extremely time consuming as well.
 

Buddy Ganga

Active Member
Bullshit, I sprayed once and have never had another problem with bugs.
$35 bucks and a spray bottle. Poof their gone..

It's a weed and growing it is one of the easiest things I've ever done in life.
 

SketchyGrower

Well-Known Member
Again circumstantial.... Infestations are probably the most circumstantial thing that can happen in a grow room. Time it was allowed to go un-noticed,species, product used...
 

bob harris

Well-Known Member
Hey bob can you point to me in the McQueen case that says a caregiver cannot transfer to a patient that is not connected through the registry. Now this practice may or may not be considered legal and that depends on what area you are in. But the MtcQueen coa did NOT rule on that AT ALL. Show me bob. You prove time and time you know nothing about this law or even anything that is really going on the reality is you are figuring out when people point it out to you. Then you still try to spin it.

Bob if you are not a cop or some other official , which I and many others are sure you are, then I think I have figured out what your problem is.
Could it be that you have a drug felony and cannot become a caregiver? Nawwww You are to much of a rat for that.

Edited to add. Dont bring to me what is says about P2P bring to me what they say about CG2ANY PT.
Oh ozz..you are such a dolt. McQueen isn't the controlling factor on either. Our AG's opinion control both now. McQueen was shut down under 'public nuisance'..the the transfer issue took a life of it's own.

cg2any patients is what profiteers like you want.
 

bob harris

Well-Known Member
Bullshit, I sprayed once and have never had another problem with bugs.
$35 bucks and a spray bottle. Poof their gone..

It's a weed and growing it is one of the easiest things I've ever done in life.
I feel it's pretty easy too. I will say that some people may find it hard though. Just like making pie crust...some can, some can't. My problem with ones that claim it's so hard is: why do they wish to be a cg?

If it's too hard, maybe they just don't have an aptitude for it.

I can't make a good pie crust, but I don't keep trying, and expect people to pay for my shitty pie. I buy my pie from someone who CAN bake.
 

purklize

Active Member
Bullshit, I sprayed once and have never had another problem with bugs.
$35 bucks and a spray bottle. Poof their gone..

It's a weed and growing it is one of the easiest things I've ever done in life.
Yeah you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about as usual. First, you spent $35 on a bottle of pesticides, which I assume were organic pesticides - those are a ripoff. They're just a few drops of essential oil and soapy water. I mix my own stuff up and it costs me $0.10 a bottle.

Secondly, you obviously don't even know what russet mites are. When I got two spotted spider mites from a clone I eradicated them easily. Russets are impossible to eradicate. Yes, impossible. Even an article in the scientific literature I read stated that their populations can only be controlled, not eradicated. The populations can be very persistant as they lay eggs on seeds.

Rosemary oil, clove oil, cinnamon oil, neem oil, 91% isopropanol, 100% CO2 atmosphere overnight in the dark, sulphur... nothing kills them.

Keep those butt lips flapping.
 

SketchyGrower

Well-Known Member
I feel it's pretty easy too. I will say that some people may find it hard though. Just like making pie crust...some can, some can't. My problem with ones that claim it's so hard is: why do they wish to be a cg?

If it's too hard, maybe they just don't have an aptitude for it.

I can't make a good pie crust, but I don't keep trying, and expect people to pay for my shitty pie. I buy my pie from someone who CAN bake.
Sorry for hatching old subjects but, where are all these bunk meds at? I grow for myself so I rarely see anything but mine. Is there really a huge problem with shit caregivers? I was under the impression this was all to do with the money being made, Not the product being sold.... Are they immature buds, unflushed, not dried or cured properly? Am I alone on this.... Do a lot of you growers still buy meds..?? And this is how your able to see it?
 

bob harris

Well-Known Member
Yeah you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about as usual. First, you spent $35 on a bottle of pesticides, which I assume were organic pesticides - those are a ripoff. They're just a few drops of essential oil and soapy water. I mix my own stuff up and it costs me $0.10 a bottle.

Secondly, you obviously don't even know what russet mites are. When I got two spotted spider mites from a clone I eradicated them easily. Russets are impossible to eradicate. Yes, impossible. Even an article in the scientific literature I read stated that their populations can only be controlled, not eradicated. The populations can be very persistant as they lay eggs on seeds.

Rosemary oil, clove oil, cinnamon oil, neem oil, 91% isopropanol, 100% CO2 atmosphere overnight in the dark, sulphur... nothing kills them.

Keep those butt lips flapping.
Russet mites are the worst..never had them, but have heard plenty of nightmares about them. If I ever do get them, I'll probably kill everything and start over. Beter to lose a couple months and get clean then to fight them forever.
 

purklize

Active Member
Absolutely and that's what I ended up doing. I've scrubbed the whole place down because I want to be SURE they don't come back. I got screwed by a clone supplier, who probably knew he had russets, thought he had them beat, but didn't... it took two months for their presence to become obvious. They're so tiny that you don't notice them until there's literally millions and the plant is dying.

 

panhead

Well-Known Member
Costs are not that much after the initial equipment purchase....and the felony drug charge is moot. The care giver chose to take on that responsibility..he wasn't forced.

what's it cost to set up a 72 plant grow? 10-15 thousand? after that, it's basically electricity and minimal supplies. operating costs may reach 3 grand a month..including amortization of the original equipment....tale 6k off that 19k every two months, and thats around $80,000 per year in gross profits. and that's at only 200 per oz...bump it up to 250 an oz..and your back to 6 figures per year..for tending 72 plants....an executive wage for a part time gardeners work.
Dude,there is merit to the high ideals you represent & i personaly think your ideals are noble but your way off base here bro.

First off the felony drug charge you so quickly dismiss as being moot most definately needs to be taken into consideration,a possible felony charge goes hand in hand with being a patient in the program,the more plants as patient numbers rise the increased risk of a felony charge,weather the felony charge stems from a deliberate violation,honest mistakes or from the ambiguity of several areas within the law the risk is present,any businessman would be neglectfull not to allocate funds for future legal issues,being forced has nothing to do with it,the caregiver is running the grow as a business & legal fees are a business expense,as with all businesses.

I think the $80,000 figure you posted in the above quote is not reachable for most caregivers,no clubs pay $200 a zip anymore unless its very small quantity,like a few zips a month,most clubs who buy large quantities from a single caregiver keep the buy price at $125 to $150,the more weight the caregiver runs thru the club the lower his price,its volume buying & its how business is done,most cargivers who run weight are getting the low end at $125 a zip & thats the reality of it,there are so many new vendors springing up daily the clubs will not pay high dollar no matter how much they charge,when dealing with large quantity its a buyers market nowdays.

Another issue is the per plant harvest weights you list at 3 zips per plant,in a small grow that is fairly accurate but in a mass grow of 72 plants its not reachable for most,the larger the grow the more problems arise,crowded conditions cause less overall weight,it also increases issues such powdery mildew & mold,excessive humidity & or temp issues,also the large grows tend to have alot more low quality buds,the cramped conditions cause much more popcorn,immature,under light & fluffy buds than in a small grow,a more realistic per plant harvest weight is about 2 zips per in big grows.

If the for profit caregiver is running his 72 plant grow as a real business he has overhead,building costs/rent,utilitys,materials such as soil,hydroponic mediums,fertilizers,water testing/correction instruments,HID light bulbs,carbon filters,ozone generator bulbs ect,these items need replaced constantly,a good grower will replace all bulbs every harvest,carbon filters & ph & ppm instruments every 6 months to a year,the only gear that dont need constant replacement is ballasts & hoods,all other gear is constantly replaced.

Now you have the time involved for the grower to consider,man hours are spent not only in the garden but in grow shops acquiring supplys,online supplys,paying the utility bills for the business ,taking goods to market then return trips to get paid,mileage & wear n tear on a vehicle as well as vehicle maintainance ect,every last hour or dollar spent that has ANYTHING at all to do with the grow needs to be accounted for because its time or money the grower could be spending in other areas of his life,its alot more than just a part time job once you figure in all time spent.

Here is what i come up with for a 72 plant grow with a fresh cutting to harvestable plant day count at a 3 month time frame.

72 plants at 2 ounces top quality dry bud comes to approx 150 ounces,vended to club for $150 an ounce for a total of $22,000 per harvest,at 4 harvests per year we hit $88,000 yearly gross for bud.

Now we have secondary vendables made from popcorn,trimmings,moldy bud,immature bud ect,figured at half ounce per plant which gives approx 75 ounces hash fodder,for simplicity sake all fodder is made into hashish,one ounce of top quality fodder will yeild approx 3 to 5 grams raw hashish,total vendable hashish at around 350 grams.

Clubs no longer pay top dollar for hashish as its not a big seller at any club,the standard volume buy price is $200 an ounce for volume hashish vending,at roughly 12 ounces secondary vendables sold at $200 per ounce add another $2,500 income to the quarterly gross x 4 times yearly & we add another $10,000 to the yearly gross.

Total yearly gross of all vendables is $98,000.

Monthly expenses for a properly maintained indoor grow running 72 plants should run roughly $1,000 a month,this includes power,water & replacing bulbs,soil,nutes,hydro mediums ect,that comes to $3,000 per harvest x 4 totals out at $12,000 per year.

Total gross income at $98,000 minus $12,000 yearly expenses & the gross is $73,000 per year.

Time spent in the actual grow tending garden should be roughly 4 hours a day x 90 days,that comes out to 360 hours a harvest,add the hours spent trimming at 8 hours per lb at roughly 10 lbs each harvest & we add another 80 hours a harvest for a total of 440 man hours,then add 1 hour per lb for material handeling durring the dry/cure process & you add another 10 hours per harvest for a grand total of 450 man hours spent tending garden.

Now you have time involved with the weekly trips to the club at 3 hours twice weekly & you add roughly another 50 man hours to total time spent bring the man hour total to roughly 500 man hours per harvest.

All this works out to 2,000 man hours per year for a pre tax gross income of $73,000 a year,who is getting rich here ? Also keep in mind the dollar values i quoted are on the very high side,at the more realistic buy price of $125 an ounce for bud & $150 a ounce for hash the figures are much lower.

Has the younger generation become so accustomed to poverty where we now consider a yearly pre tax imcome of $73,000 to be a high paid job ? My retirement benifits from 32 years on the job pay me more than that so i ask again,who is getting rich here ?

This idea you have where big volume vendors running 70 plant grows are pulling in $200 to $250 an ounce does not reflect the market at all.

If the vendor does everything perfect all year long he will only end up with a job that pays roughly what the average auto worker in the state makes,why is this such a problem for you that people are able to support their family at an above poverty standard off growing mj ?

You paint a picture of a bunch of extremely sick people who desperately need mj as a medicine being taken advantage of,all the while their caregiver is leading some luxury life without any real effort.

Reality is more along these lines where back ache fakers who wouldnt be prescribed a tylenol 3 at a real doctor get certified in the program,then sell the grow rights to the highest paying caregiver,then dump him like a stone as soon as another caregiver promises them an extra 1/4 ounce a month.

Whats odd to me is how you can be so offended & angry at people who profit from med mj & not show the same repulsion for the tens of thousands of people taking part in the program who clearly have no real medical need for mj .

Last figures i knew were that over 40% of all people taking part in the program were males under the age of 25 yrs old,most of the program serves those who have no real medical issue that would warrant even the weakest prescription drug like a tylenol 3 or a .5 mg valium,wheres the outrage ?

Again i think your values & ideals are in the right place but i dont think you look at it from more than a very narrow standpoint.
 

bob harris

Well-Known Member
Absolutely and that's what I ended up doing. I've scrubbed the whole place down because I want to be SURE they don't come back. I got screwed by a clone supplier, who probably knew he had russets, thought he had them beat, but didn't... it took two months for their presence to become obvious. They're so tiny that you don't notice them until there's literally millions and the plant is dying.

If ya don't mind, I'll share some tips on preventing bugs.

Don't look on the plants and try to find bugs. By the time you do, there will be tons of them. Instead, shake a branch of your plant over some bright white paper, or the white side of black/white poly. Check the paper for bugs. They are much easier to see..you can even see movement if there are only a few. Something about the white background make them much, much easier to find.

If you find bugs, or if you bring home a clone , get a bucket of water with mild dish soap in it, and dip the whole plant upside down into the water. The soap makes the water film, and it will drown most creatures.
Let the plant dry, out of direct light, then dip in clear water to remove any soap film..let them dry again, and put them back in veg. Then give them the shake test in a week or so to see if they are gone. Spray with neem whether you find bugs or not..makes the leaves pretty. When you spray, soak the bottoms of the leaves first..then the top of the leaf...but really drench it.


For gnats, top dress the soil with an inch or so of white sand. Keep the sand moist, a spray bottle works best. The gnats won't be able to get through the sand, and will die off.

Just stuff I've learned, if it helps anyone..
 

bob harris

Well-Known Member
Another issue is the per plant harvest weights you list at 3 zips per plant,in a small grow that is fairly accurate but in a mass grow of 72 plants its not reachable for most,the larger the grow the more problems arise,crowded conditions cause less overall weight,it also increases issues such powdery mildew & mold,excessive humidity & or temp issues,also the large grows tend to have alot more low quality buds,the cramped conditions cause much more popcorn,immature,under light & fluffy buds than in a small grow,a more realistic per plant harvest weight is about 2 zips per in big grows.


^^^^^^^partial quote from pan head

I've got a problem with this..a bigger grow should be much easier to control. If you can't afford the environmental controls...what are you doing expanding a grow? I do agree that many larger grower have crap for quality....but not because it's "harder". Because they don't have the proper equipment to take on the task.

Lord, if I were going to run 72 plants, I'd have day/night temp control, enough space for air circulation, humidity control..ALL before a plant ever saw the room.

You are describing what happens most times...but what happens most times IS the problem.
 

purklize

Active Member
Good advice on bug control bob - I have tried most of that but I never tried shaking branches over a piece of paper. This is a good idea, thanks.

Has the younger generation become so accustomed to poverty where we now consider a yearly pre tax imcome of $58,000 to be a high paid job ?
We have. I'm in my mid-20s and I can't even imagine that kind of money. It's depressing.
 

bob harris

Well-Known Member
Good advice on bug control bob - I have tried most of that but I never tried shaking branches over a piece of paper. This is a good idea, thanks.



We have. I'm in my mid-20s and I can't even imagine that kind of money. It's depressing.
The paper thing works really well..try it.

58k a year is is pretty good money. Way above the median. When you are young, you have to realize it takes some time to work up thru the ranks...When I was 20, I made like 6 grand a year waiting on tables...at 30 I was only making 22,000 running restaurants. Got into furniture sales, got up to 35k by 35 years old....by 41, I was making 6 figures as an exec in the furniture business.

Has the younger generation forgotten that it takes time to get to that kind of income level? The point is, whatever job you have, there has to be a way to move up. It won't happen overnight.
 
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