Care Giver..or Drug Dealer?

[purklize]

Have you ever grown? You don't need a warehouse to make a decent income growing. Get 6x600w of HPS lights in your basement and you'll be producing half a pound a week.

If it's legality you are concerned about you should be opposed to large grows. They're the ones that attract federal attention. Dispensaries too. Remember, it is still illegal at the federal level...

 

[RawBudzski]

Are you saying your stance is one of pragmatism and not principle? As in, you do not think there is anything morally wrong with a caregiver selling to their registered patient, but you think it is politically hazardous?

I am only speaking on reality here & the laws that exist. Yeah I could care less if teenagers were able to smoke pot, It'd be neat if we didn't need doc recommendations. That is not the case, I am simply saying what flys & what will not fly in the eyes of LEO most cases.

Two caregivers, both able to grow 24 plants.. Caregiver #1 has a spare room for his 24plants, caregiver #2 has 20 acres of land w/ greenhouses. Caregiver #2 will make a better living off buds LEGALLY than caregiver #1 will.. Unless caregiver #1 simply tried to charge top price to his patients down to every last gram.. he will not see the same amount of return for his efforts of being a CG. They are not all equal.

Caregiver # 1 cannot afford to give free meds to his patients year round, and has no overages.
Caregiver # 2 can give free meds year round & has overages to supply dispensaries.. has enough plant matter to make Countless MMJ products..

 

[purklize]

Two caregivers, both able to grow 24 plants.. Caregiver #1 has a spare room for his 24plants, caregiver #2 has 20 acres of land w/ greenhouses. Caregiver #2 will make a better living off buds LEGALLY than caregiver #1 will.. Unless caregiver #1 simply tried to charge top price to his patients down to every last gram.. he will not see the same amount of return for his efforts of being a CG. They are not all equal.

Michigan is not California. In Michigan caregiver #2 would come under fire from the authorities, and caregiver #1 would be given the green light.

Caregiver # 1 cannot afford to give free meds to his patients year round, and has no overages.
Caregiver # 2 can give free meds year round & has overages to supply dispensaries.. has enough plant matter to make Countless MMJ products..

Again... here's the contradiction in your reasoning...

You believe is (morally?) wrong for a patient to be charged for meds. Fine.

But you also believe it is (morally?) kosher for patients to be charged for meds. Huh?

The difference is in one situation the transfer is from an individual, in the other the transfer is from an organization. The result is the same: a grower makes money and a patient has to fork out the cash.

 

[RawBudzski]

Have you ever grown? You don't need a warehouse to make a decent income growing. Get 6x600w of HPS lights in your basement and you'll be producing half a pound a week.

If it's legality you are concerned about you should be opposed to large grows. They're the ones that attract federal attention. Dispensaries too. Remember, it is still illegal at the federal level...

Depends on what you mean by decent income.. & how you plan on making that $$$. If you think someone should make job worthy income from selling bud to 5x different patients you are nutts. Only way to make decent money from semi-decent yields would be to sell buds to people you are not supposed to be selling to. to have a home garden that can afford to give Free Meds year round & still have enough overages to bring to a dispense would be nice.. Though it's rare.. usually that overage bud is being sold somewhere it should not be @ street price simply for profit.

 

[RawBudzski]

Michigan is not California. In Michigan caregiver #2 would come under fire from the authorities, and caregiver #1 would be given the green light.



Again... here's the contradiction in your reasoning...

You believe is (morally?) wrong for a patient to be charged for meds. Fine.

But you also believe it is (morally?) kosher for patients to be charged for meds. Huh?

The difference is in one situation the transfer is from an individual, in the other the transfer is from an organization. The result is the same: a grower makes money and a patient has to fork out the cash.

Comprehend what I am trying to say, have you ever been grocery shopping? The patients being charged are buying bud from a Business that needs to be taxed. The patients getting bud free are getting from a grower.

I am not from michigan and from what I can tell your guys system regarding mmj is semi-retarded. So that is your states fault. What I am saying is legit, Patients get weed free from CGs, Patients BUY weed from the Shops, The SHOPS ARE TAXED for selling buds legally. Caregivers cannot be Taxed for selling buds, which is why they do not allow it.

 

[purklize]

Moral right and wrong has nothing to do with whether it is taxed. Besides, caregivers pay taxes too. They are required by law to do so.

If you think someone should make job worthy income from selling bud to 5x different patients you are nutts.

Depends how much they use and what you consider "job worthy." With five patients each consuming an ounce a month, supplying them for less than they'd pay at a dispensary (so let's say $300/oz), they're probably going to make 1000-1200/mo in income after costs, about $700-900/mo after taxes. Yes a lot of caregivers pay taxes, under tax law you have to self report any income you generate independently and pay not only 14% in payroll tax but also 6% state income tax and any federal ones that apply.

 

[RawBudzski]

Imagine if a caregiver had to go through the same process & licensing as a MMJ dispensary, along with the taxes and FEEs, THEN they were able to sell buds to any patients. Also required to keep records & pay the taxes. That would be neat. <3

 

[Timmahh]

and 500.00 per oz.

 

[RawBudzski]

Moral right and wrong has nothing to do with whether it is taxed. Besides, caregivers pay taxes too. They are required by law to do so.



Depends how much they use and what you consider "job worthy." With five patients each consuming an ounce a month, supplying them for less than they'd pay at a dispensary (so let's say $300/oz), they're probably going to make 1000-1200/mo in income after costs, about $700-900/mo after taxes. Yes a lot of caregivers pay taxes, under tax law you have to self report any income you generate independently and pay not only 14% in payroll tax but also 6% state income tax and any federal ones that apply.

You suggest SELLING the MEDS to the PATIENT for 300/oz. Which is dumb imo since you would not be able to GROW THE PLANTS w/ out the patient anyway. It's like USING people who know no better. They can get bud 300oz from anyone else, why you!? Patients meds should be free, that would weed out many small time cash croppers using CG as an excuse.

 

[RawBudzski]

I wish more caregivers would chime in here w/ a pic or two of there gardens. So we could see the many different scales of being a CG.

 

[RawBudzski]

Now, let us talk about the non-mmj states & how I am for gurilla growers.

It's all about the principal! If you are out to break the law making profit from buds more power to you, just don't become a caregiver to disguise it.

 

[purklize]

You charge into here with remarkable hubris for someone who knows literally nothing about the situation in Michigan. How many times do I have to tell you these things?

Dispensaries do not pay fees in Michigan, they pay taxes. And they are, for now, illegal. Michigan is not California.

300oz is CHEAP in most of Michigan for something truly of medical quality, I posted two independent price indexes that estimated the average kind bud to go for 350-400/oz here. It is cheaper than the dispensaries you like so much by almost 50%. And again, those plants do not belong to the patient. They choose when signing up whether the government should give them, or a caregiver, the legal right to grow plants. The caregiver is like a hired contractor.

Patients meds should be free, that would weed out many small time cash croppers using CG as an excuse.

You contradict yourself constantly. Now here you are saying that as a matter of moral imperative, patients meds should be free. But then here, you suggest it's fine for them to have to pay for them:

Imagine if a caregiver had to go through the same process & licensing as a MMJ dispensary, along with the taxes and FEEs, THEN they were able to sell buds to any patients. Also required to keep records & pay the taxes. That would be neat. <3

Basically, you are saying it's wrong for a caregiver to rape a patient by himself, but a gang rape bringing some city administrators and tax collectors into the fray is okay.

 

[RawBudzski]

I know less than nothing about the situation in michigan, other than I am glad I don't live there. I know what I don't like, & that is cashcroppers who pose as caregivers. I don't mind everyone else who grows bud.. It is just that One single mindset that I hate... someone who is growing for weight+profit yet tells everyone it's for the patients. That one single person should have bad things happen to them.. no one else.

This is from personal experiences in the mmj community. I have not had a good rant session in weeks, this is the lucky thread.. Usually it would be in spirituality section.

 

[purklize]

Now, let us talk about the non-mmj states & how I am for gurilla growers.

It's all about the principal! If you are out to break the law making profit from buds more power to you, just don't become a caregiver to disguise it.

Right and wrong are not relative things, principles are absolute. What is right in a non-mmj state is right in a mmj state, and vice versa. You realize these guerrilla growers are doing the same thing as caregivers - growing without extensive licensing and fees, and selling to people with HIV and cancer without paying any taxes?

Asking commercial growers not to seek the protection of mmj laws is screaming into a howling wind. Forget it.

I know less than nothing about the situation in michigan, other than I am glad I don't live there. I know what I don't like, & that is cashcroppers who pose as caregivers. I don't mind everyone else who grows bud.. It is just that One single mindset that I hate... someone who is growing for weight+profit yet tells everyone it's for the patients. That one single person should have bad things happen to them.. no one else.

You're killing me! The big commercial growers, the dispensaries, they are more profit motivated than anyone! They are the true cash croppers!

 

[RawBudzski]

Right and wrong are not relative things, principles are absolute. What is right in a non-mmj state is right in a mmj state, and vice versa. You realize these guerrilla growers are doing the same thing as caregivers - growing without extensive licensing and fees, and selling to people with HIV and cancer without paying any taxes?

Asking commercial growers not to seek the protection of mmj laws is screaming into a howling wind. Forget it.



You're killing me! The big commercial growers, the dispensaries, they are more profit motivated than anyone! They are the true cash croppers!

You're correct. & I would do the same. I am not trying to teach anything or switch anyones thoughts on the subject, just what I think about a certain individual. && I would say you are wrong in the sense that the meds go to "patients" , usually cashcroppers meds go to the highest payer regardless who it is. & from there those buds endup many different places outside of the mmj community.

Dispensaries are greedy making bank, but @ least they are doing it in the open, paying there fees & taxes. (which is a lot)

 

[RawBudzski]

end rant. <3

 

[purklize]

I would say you are wrong in the sense that the meds go to "patients" , usually cashcroppers meds go to the highest payer regardless who it is. & from there those buds endup many different places outside of the mmj community.

If patients couldn't afford black market prices, they certainly can't afford dispensary prices. $400/oz on the street for medical grade, $500 and up at the dispensaries.

If it's wrong for patients to have to buy meds then it can't be right for patients to have to buy meds. The same patients who sign up caregivers buy from dispensaries. If you're going to call it rape, well, rape isn't okay just so long as it's with a stranger.

 

[RawBudzski]

you are talking about michigan. California you can find bud of varying degrees ranging from 50/oz - 400/oz. Streets or dispense.


Stop clumping Cgs and Dispense together, Patients of a CG should get free meds because they are allowing the CG to grow # plants for them. Dispense are not growing shyt for the patients thus charge them for the meds.

I see it as the Caregiver Needs the patient more than the patient needs the caregiver(law/legally wise), so why should the patient need to pay for the plants they allowed the CG to grow. If the CG's garden cant pump out enough meds to supply some free they should not be a CG.

 

[purklize]

you are talking about michigan. California you can find bud of varying degrees ranging from 50/oz - 400/oz. Streets or dispense.

Yup, it's the Michigan mmj forum. CA has nothing to do with this conversation.

Stop clumping Cgs and Dispense together, Patients of a CG should get free meds because they are allowing the CG to grow # plants for them. Dispense are not growing shyt for the patients.

You're not making any sense. They're both caregivers. You think it's okay for caregivers to take product from their patient's plants and sell it to each other's patients, with a bunch of people in between (middlemen, those collecting licensing fees taxes) to jack up the price. But you think it's not okay for caregivers to just take product from their patient's plants and sell it to them directly, cutting out middlemen and lowering costs.

An analogy that just came to mind on the idea that the plants always belong to the patient:

Caregivers are hired contractors. Imagine another common one: the construction agency. You pay them, and they come build you a house. The house is your property; the service you paid for. Now, if you demand their trucks, their hammers and their powerdrills, you're going to look like an asshole. The plants are tools, the medicine is the product they are contracted to provide.

 

[RawBudzski]

If someone said hey sign this paper so I can grow more pot legally & sell it to you I would tell them to FK off ill grow my own. Which needs to be the case.