we are talkin about flower not veg. dyna gro doesnt stretch the plants nearly enough in flower and the buds are more airy
after trying dyna gro im switching back to advanced nutrients 2 part
- Thread starter tree king
- Start date
ScoobyDoobyDoo
Well-Known Member
sounds good bro..we'll just chalk it up as miscommunication. you've been given some great advice on this thread from guys who know advanced from the sound of it. so stick with what you know and experiment when you want. just need to understand that you should experiment with product until you have it dialed in to get a real read on it. i know you had to switch back to advanced cause this is about money for you but there are a TON of things wrong with your grow, your plants, and the buds you produce that could easily be fixed if you were willing to change up a few things. those buds you get are a result of the stretch of your plants and the EXTREMELY low ppm that you are running. people tried to tell you in the thread but you chose not to listen. you have to stick with what works for you but there isn't a SINGLE strain out there tat can't handle at least 800ppm in flower.
it's pointless though to argue this stuff on the internet. i really do hope you get everything dialed in and grow some fantastic buds bro.
ScoobyDoobyDoo
Well-Known Member
you don't want tall stretchy plants in flower either. that's how you get a bunch of popcorn buds with very little yield and low bud density because the nodes are so far apart.
"there isn't a SINGLE strain out there tat can't handle at least 800ppm in flower"
absolutely fuckin false! me and a bunch of other people would disagree with you on this. not to be insulting but i cant take you very seriously if your gonna make statements like that
absolutely fuckin false! me and a bunch of other people would disagree with you on this. not to be insulting but i cant take you very seriously if your gonna make statements like that
low bud density lol! my buds are like fuckin bricks. we'll see what you have to say when i get a gram per watt of super dense buds at 300ppm
ScoobyDoobyDoo
Well-Known Member
i hope you do get super dense buds and 1gpw. i hope everyone does. but judging from the pics you have posted so far i don't think that's gonna happen bud. you are way off track man.
depends on what nutes you run nitrogen will reduce stretch early in flower and keep plants green till then from my experience so far. and also temp is the most significant role player when it comes to stretch. Im on week 5 with dyna gro and just started adding the bloom this is frist time around with it in pro mix but so far it seems promising. I think that the foliage pro is better suited for vegging then the gro Ive said it before but get the free sample and try it up against AN and see how it fares. and airy buds can also be from poor lighting just sayin
i tried both nutes in the same conditions it had nothin to do with poor lighting theres nothing i saw from the grow and bloom that impressed me at all im all set with dyna
well it wouldnt hurt to try the FP its free.
it doesnt matter cause i gotta switch to the bloom anyway the third week its just a waste of time thanks for the recommendation though. im happy with the sensi 2 part grow
hugetom80s
Well-Known Member
As usual there's elements of truth and fiction in everything.
Homebrewer is correct that the type of nitrogen does affect the plants. He's incorrect in saying that Advanced Nutrients uses only one kind of nitrogen.
Ammonium nitrogen produces greater petiole leaf expansion. Nitrate nitrogen, in too large a quantity, will cause shorter petioles, smaller leaves, and thinner stems. So the key is to blend the two which is what any good fertilizer company does. However, a lot of them are just like the Label Lawyers out there who look at the sticker on the back of the bottle and decide that because it lists the same numbers it's the same thing as another bottle. I don't care what you're talking about, the ingredient list on labels are crap. The rules about what can, can't, and must be on a label are flat out retarded. They completely prevent any company from actually accurately listing what is in their products because a lot of them don't want to in the first place.
Look at the label on the back of a bottle of grape juice. Then look at the label on a bottle of Coke. They look pretty similar. But one is good for you and the other isn't. Why? There's tons of stuff in grape juice (flavanoids and so forth) that are absolutely awesome nutritionally but aren't on labels because the bureaucracy hasn't decided yet whether or not those things are "officially" good for you.
Plant nutrients are even worse because for the most part, the government cares a hell of a lot less what company's sell to feed to plants compared to what they sell to feed to people, despite the obvious fact that people eat plants grown on those fertilizers (or smoke them). Fertilizer labeling laws are pretty much all based off tech that dates back to the 70's. Botany has come a LONG way since then, but you wouldn't know it by reading a label.
So you get the companies out there who look at the competition's label and think "aha! We can use this to copy their formula!" and they go and make a fertilizer that has the same NPK. Whoop-de-freakin-do. You could quite literally make a "fertilizer" with the same label ingredients as a major brand that is COMPLETELY useless to plants. There are ways of getting the same amounts of each element into solution that are so bio-unavailable as to be practically worthless to a plant. You can pee in a reservoir and massively increase the nitrogen levels but unless you have the microbes that turn the nitrogen in urea into a form useful to plants you're not helping them one bit. Labels are good for getting some idea of what's in a bottle, but they BY NO MEANS actually tell the full story.
Back to the original point, it's not a matter of one thing being good and another being bad when it comes to nitrogen. It's that there's more than one good thing and - as with most things - it's a matter of how much and in what ratios. Too much of a good thing is just as bad as a bad thing.
So the type(s) and amount of nitrogen does influence how the plant grows. Virtually every macro and micro nutrient has some impact on how the plant grows and the source of those nutrients also make a difference.
Oh, and here's a fun tid-bit. It takes full-on laboratory analysis to truly reverse-engineer a fertilizer. What's more, it's possible to use masking agents to make that analysis difficult if not impossible. I have heard that Advanced Nutrients does that to protect their formulas but that could be just a rumor, I don't know. But it makes me a lot more skeptical of anyone that says they've copied AN's formulas.
hugetom80s
Well-Known Member
I agree with everyone here saying "don't listen to other people when they tell you what to use" but to a certain point. Here's what I say.
Listen to everyone. But just listen.
Learn what you can by listening, then learn what you can by doing. I've learned a lot of lessons by paying attention and doing my homework before I jump into a new project. And of course I've learned my fair share by screwing something up, figuring out what I did wrong, and finding out that if I'd listened more I might have avoided that problem.
So when I or anyone else says, "hey you should do this or use this fertilizer" or whatever listen but don't just take their word for it. We're all just people. I happen to be one that prefers hydroponics to soil, synthetic to organic, and Advanced Nutrients to everything else I've personally tried (which is quite a few things TBH). That's me, not you. And of course I, like most people, think the reason I think and feel the way I do is something anyone else in my shoes would think and feel but I do know that isn't necessarily true.
So my advice is (watch homebrewer's head spin at this): don't take anything I say as a reason to buy Advanced Nutrients. Don't take my word for it. Don't buy or not buy ANYTHING because I or anyone else says you should. I'm just relating my personal opinions and my personal experience. If that helps you, awesome. If not, don't listen to me. I personally believe that most if not all growers could grow better plants using Advanced Nutrients. I think a lot of people who have a different experience than I have are letting prejudice color their judgement.
But hey, I could be wrong on that. That's just what I see from my perspective and of course I'm inclined to think I'm right or else I wouldn't think it in the first place.
Just listen. Make up your own mind.
Listen to everyone. But just listen.
Learn what you can by listening, then learn what you can by doing. I've learned a lot of lessons by paying attention and doing my homework before I jump into a new project. And of course I've learned my fair share by screwing something up, figuring out what I did wrong, and finding out that if I'd listened more I might have avoided that problem.
So when I or anyone else says, "hey you should do this or use this fertilizer" or whatever listen but don't just take their word for it. We're all just people. I happen to be one that prefers hydroponics to soil, synthetic to organic, and Advanced Nutrients to everything else I've personally tried (which is quite a few things TBH). That's me, not you. And of course I, like most people, think the reason I think and feel the way I do is something anyone else in my shoes would think and feel but I do know that isn't necessarily true.
So my advice is (watch homebrewer's head spin at this): don't take anything I say as a reason to buy Advanced Nutrients. Don't take my word for it. Don't buy or not buy ANYTHING because I or anyone else says you should. I'm just relating my personal opinions and my personal experience. If that helps you, awesome. If not, don't listen to me. I personally believe that most if not all growers could grow better plants using Advanced Nutrients. I think a lot of people who have a different experience than I have are letting prejudice color their judgement.
But hey, I could be wrong on that. That's just what I see from my perspective and of course I'm inclined to think I'm right or else I wouldn't think it in the first place.
Just listen. Make up your own mind.
ScoobyDoobyDoo
Well-Known Member
great advice hugetom80s.
"Wisemen listen n laugh while fools talk" on my flood and drain tables using dyna grow I'm impressed and would be. Shocked if another could beat it this is my first round with hydro n dg and I do plan on running comparisons cause I had good success with technaflora in aero but this is the fastest I've seen plants veg so far under my solar storm led!
ScoobyDoobyDoo
Well-Known Member
do you have any pictures of your plants or a journal going with pics? just asking cause i'm not really sure you are the "best" person to be using as a measuring stick. not trying to be an ass. just you seem to be all over the hydro section asking for advice on every nute and additive out there.
i only say this cause these are some of your recent posts around the forum...
weaponsgradecannabis
Member
just sayin having tried 4 different lines (ff full line, dm full line, an full line, gh full line) when you go an its like wow monstrous growth i use sensi two part big bud rhino overdrive nirvana bud ignitor bud factor x final phase however their bennies in my opinion suck i have hundreds of dollars worth of piranha tarantula and voodoo juice that are so useless to me i let my girlfriend use them on her fruits and vegetable garden good for strawberries in dirt bad for buds in dwc instead i use Heisenberg's home brewd benny tea awesome results combined with an
Why don't you reread my first post I clearly stated this is my first grow in hydro and first time using dg in hydro and I do plan on trying other nutes but would be shocked if another could beat it, I don't know what your trying to use as a measuring stick from my quote I'm simply giving a lil feed back from my experience so far and the first question is soil related! And like you and everyone else I'm trying to produce the beat possible but at the same time not waste money.
homebrewer
Well-Known Member
I've been away but I wanted to address this real quick. Sensi is a 4 part system meaning you have two parts for grow and two more for bloom. In your example above, you're using 20mls of Sensi vs 10mls of DG, how does that make any sense if you're comparing concentration levels? In addition, I never made claims about the potency of Sensi as I tested Connoisseur which is actually more concentrated than your Sensi numbers. But based on your numbers above, you're right in that when using bases only, DG is only about 15% cheaper.
Concentration levels and price-point are just the beginning, how about the number of bottles needed to grow a plant from seed to harvest? How about the need for additional bottles down the road because of lack-luster NPK ratios for hydro or incomplete base nutrient formulas? How about pH stability or ease of use? If you want to talk about the true cost of a grow, you need to look at more than just the price of the bases, especially when dealing with canna-specific nutrient companies whose only goal is to empty your pockets. After all, we're talking about salts in water here, not pixies dust and magic potions that guarantee success.
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what plant food one uses when one lacks the skills to dial-in everything else it takes to grow a healthy plant. A great example of this occurred last week when a friend was watching my garden while I was gone. I don't know what happened but one of my perfectly healthy flowering dirt plants died while I was gone. I dunno King, should I blame the plant food or the person who was caring for the plants?
