Good News.. I swear!!
- Thread starter tomcatjones
- Start date
Timmahh
Well-Known Member
I said block the bills because they *(legislation) are trying to subjugate the will of the people... you see, there is no need for the bills, the state has not fully followed or implemented the law to begin with, so any changes they attempt, are also a major waste of time AND Taxpayers money. They can not change things until the Act is fully implemented. Once it is, THEN, and only THEN, should any changes or adaptions be attempted.
Again, I say change it when it needs to be changed, and you are agreeing with it being changed because Legislation and BS dont like, nor want to follow the Act.
I have no need to twist my words. my last 6 months of posts prove my position. no twisting required.
If you have no desire to be a leader, why are you trying so hard to get everyone to follow your thought process of dont do anything?
Opposed to saying, these folks are correct, though I personally take a bit more reserved approach?
Fact is bob, My interpretation is almost 100% inline with how the MSC ruled. that fact speaks for itself.
Again, I say change it when it needs to be changed, and you are agreeing with it being changed because Legislation and BS dont like, nor want to follow the Act.
I have no need to twist my words. my last 6 months of posts prove my position. no twisting required.
If you have no desire to be a leader, why are you trying so hard to get everyone to follow your thought process of dont do anything?
Opposed to saying, these folks are correct, though I personally take a bit more reserved approach?
Fact is bob, My interpretation is almost 100% inline with how the MSC ruled. that fact speaks for itself.
FatMarty
Well-Known Member
Fucking farmers.
bob harris
Well-Known Member
Timmah, I understood why you said "block the bills". It was appropriate 3 months earlier. But at the 11th hour, it was ignorant. Any one you convinced to try at that time, should see that you wasted their efforts. Had you encouraged "change the wording' at the 11th hour, as i did< we may have gotten even better wording.
Your whole argument on why you said "stop the bill" is based ideologically. That tells me you have no idea how to lead people, or to win objectives. I have basically the same ideology as you. The difference is that I know when to accept the reality of the current situation, and compromise the best I can.....
You twist your words all the time. You danced like a puppet on a string for John Cain. You had to hide from the site because you got crushed by almost everyone.
The reason I share my opinions are not to try and be the leader. What's to lead here? The 6 active posters? My opinions are to warn them of false prophets, like your self, so the don't get themselves busted.
bob harris
Well-Known Member
So timmah, have ya thought this scenario through?
The police come to visit, and find a registered card holder with 12 plants, 1 oz dry, and his facility is locked secure and spot on.
Cops have to walk away right? He is certainly in compliance with his section 4 limitations.
Now, what if of those 12 plants, 6 are in full flower, ready to harvest. The cop could certainly see "intent to over manufacture" and make the bust. It will be one of the next hotly debated arrests..just wait.
After all, 6 fully mature plants IS going to cause an "over the limit" situation. Unless of course, you can prove need for that much product at once. Great trial case. Now, use your section 8 defense. Better prove you make and use oil. Remember, this is a self grower, with no patients. Judge says "yup, that's not a reasonable amount...good luck with the jury. You have a trial....and there is a good chance a jury will convict.
Go to the SC on appeal? Probably..may even get overturned. Might not.
See, I'd rather not see someone be that test case because you said it's ok. After all, the letter of the law doesn't say you can't have all 12 of your plants at full bloom and ready to harvest. But logic tells even a simpleton, that there is no way NOT to be temporarily way over on weight...unless you sell wet, and want to ride the "technicality pony".
In may cases the cops would be right. A guy truly growing for himself, would have a continual harvest going...not a full crop, down time, full crop grow schedule. I'd bet that most times, the guy in this scenario had every intention of cashing some of that crop in. And that, my friend, does not fall into the 'intent' of the law as written.
Tough call for the SC. "Intent to" has been on the books for a long time, for many crimes. Why NOT "intent to overproduce' ?
Doesn't hurt a legit med grower if they pass an "intent to" law..he'll be fine..even if he needs section 8. If he's legit, and has max weight going, he will have plenty of documentation, and a believable story (RSO) as to why. he will walk..maybe even get a dismissal from the Judge. (a judge CAN dismiss at a section 8 hearing..but doesn't have to)
However..you are telling guys "go ahead, we've won"...and we are not even close. You are encouraging people to push the limits, I encourage then to stay within them. Wok at expanding them, but stay within them.
That's our fundamental difference. You live in an idealistic world..I live in a reality world. Having Ideals is good. Not knowing how to separate them from reality is...sad
The police come to visit, and find a registered card holder with 12 plants, 1 oz dry, and his facility is locked secure and spot on.
Cops have to walk away right? He is certainly in compliance with his section 4 limitations.
Now, what if of those 12 plants, 6 are in full flower, ready to harvest. The cop could certainly see "intent to over manufacture" and make the bust. It will be one of the next hotly debated arrests..just wait.
After all, 6 fully mature plants IS going to cause an "over the limit" situation. Unless of course, you can prove need for that much product at once. Great trial case. Now, use your section 8 defense. Better prove you make and use oil. Remember, this is a self grower, with no patients. Judge says "yup, that's not a reasonable amount...good luck with the jury. You have a trial....and there is a good chance a jury will convict.
Go to the SC on appeal? Probably..may even get overturned. Might not.
See, I'd rather not see someone be that test case because you said it's ok. After all, the letter of the law doesn't say you can't have all 12 of your plants at full bloom and ready to harvest. But logic tells even a simpleton, that there is no way NOT to be temporarily way over on weight...unless you sell wet, and want to ride the "technicality pony".
In may cases the cops would be right. A guy truly growing for himself, would have a continual harvest going...not a full crop, down time, full crop grow schedule. I'd bet that most times, the guy in this scenario had every intention of cashing some of that crop in. And that, my friend, does not fall into the 'intent' of the law as written.
Tough call for the SC. "Intent to" has been on the books for a long time, for many crimes. Why NOT "intent to overproduce' ?
Doesn't hurt a legit med grower if they pass an "intent to" law..he'll be fine..even if he needs section 8. If he's legit, and has max weight going, he will have plenty of documentation, and a believable story (RSO) as to why. he will walk..maybe even get a dismissal from the Judge. (a judge CAN dismiss at a section 8 hearing..but doesn't have to)
However..you are telling guys "go ahead, we've won"...and we are not even close. You are encouraging people to push the limits, I encourage then to stay within them. Wok at expanding them, but stay within them.
That's our fundamental difference. You live in an idealistic world..I live in a reality world. Having Ideals is good. Not knowing how to separate them from reality is...sad
Timmahh
Well-Known Member
Did the officer have a Warrant? and if so what was the warrant for? and what is the evidence for the warrent? you have the guy swinging from the gallows, and no one is even fucking sure he was legally visited.
lol
as noted bob. you want to create scenarios where everyone but you is a criminal...
ahaha Hide from this site. First I dont hide. Ive been here watching you hang yourself. Hell even Glad is seeing the ignorance of your ways...Sometimes horses have be be run to be thirsty, and then they ll drink the water...
Looks like Many here have done well with much of the guidance a few of us have offered...
They are all calling your bullshit out now.
lol
exactly bob, you roll over and continue to let the illegal calls continue, and hide in the corner.... You would rather live under a bunch of bad rules than be a man and stand up against what you know is wrong.
as noted bob. you want to create scenarios where everyone but you is a criminal...
ahaha Hide from this site. First I dont hide. Ive been here watching you hang yourself. Hell even Glad is seeing the ignorance of your ways...Sometimes horses have be be run to be thirsty, and then they ll drink the water...
Looks like Many here have done well with much of the guidance a few of us have offered...
They are all calling your bullshit out now.
bob harris
Well-Known Member
My point here..is you don't think things trough logically. You think them trough emotionally. Emotion is for a cheer leader..the players need to deal with the situation at hand. You want a flag on every play. Then cry if you don't get it. I don't let bad calls bug me. I prepare for the next play.
bob harris
Well-Known Member
Yes, he had a warrant...or the card holder invited him in..you pick. Grounds for the warrant? Who cares..he had one. Just answer the scenario.
And I'm not creating a scenario where "everyone but me is a criminal". I'm setting a scenario that is playing out every day across Michigan. I'm trying to let people know that this WILL happen...shouldn't take long, either.
You don't think out the wins..they are not all that they appear. I caution against overly broad interpretations, and anticipate how the cops will test the new limits. Anticipation creates an opportunity to avoid the problem. You don't avoid problems..you charge into them, blindly.
bob harris
Well-Known Member
So, you view the members here as horses that you have been running, so they would find the water? Nice man, really nice.
horses, plural. Not make a horse run ( so you can't say I was the horse) Plural. horses. semantics? or true Colors?
Timmahh
Well-Known Member
Well No warrant, I doubt they ll be having coffee, so we ll go with he had a warrent..
what was the warrant for?
bob harris
Well-Known Member
Doesn't really matter. Assume the warrant was good. The warrant could be non cannabis. Once in on a non cannabis warrant, the cops have the right to ask for a registry card and see the grow, if it's obvious there is cannabis in the house. Pick any thing you want, so long as the cops make the arrest, and the entry was legit. Say the guy offered to show the grow..he had a card, was technically in compliance with all section 4 standards. Nothing to worry about.
Are you saying this scenario can't and won't happen? Please..it's guaranteed..just wait a few days, maybe months.
For once in your life, answer a direct question, would you?
Timmahh
Well-Known Member
yes it matters. the point of the warrant is the point of the visit. OMG, again, you instantly prove you have ZERO understanding of LAW and how it Works. lol
That is your problem bob, I give you the Proper answer, yet you refuse to accept it.. Your mistaken, and I am correct, and you just dont like it. to bad so sad for you.
OK Non cannabis warrant. Say it is for failure to pay a traffic ticket. thats non cannabis.
the only thing the officers can do (short of walking up on a murder scene, or robbery ect, ) would be to act on the warrant for the Traffic issue ONLY. He may see cannabis in the visit, (though I highly doubt it) but the purpose of the visit is the traffic issue, therefore anything cannabis related would now be irrelevant, as it is not the purpose of the warrant. and cannabis is not murder...
the officer could report his findings, and they could issue another warrant for the cannabis, at which point, it is the purpose for the visit (or they could wait for the warrant at the time of the orig visit but it would have to be a separate warrant).
Without a Warrant to search for the Purposed illegal cannabis, anything they find would be inadmissible as was not part of the original reason for the warrant. Also, what guy would offer to allow the cops to see their private medicine scenarios? Unless the warrant was for Cannabis, As i noted above, I doubt they ll be sharing a cup of coffee talking about the grow room...
now with a Cannabis warrant. they come visit. Knock on door (i hope they knock anyways), and say, hey we have a warrant for a search on your cannabis. You say, here is My MMMA authorization card. It is fully Valid. For the sake of argument the warrant states a quantity check.
No where in the MMM Act does it say any agency or agent of the state has a "RIGHT" to check someones grow. By law they can not. ONLY a CG or his Pt, registered or not, is allowed to enter a grow area. The Person and the Police would be violating the Act if he allowed the police to enter the grow area, without that being specifically outlined in the Warrant. Lets again for the sake of argument say it was outlined.
The Authorized Pt has 4 plants in flower, 4 plants in veg, and 2 plants in the cloner. He has 1 plant drying, and 2 oz in cured usable meds. Clearly under the limits. The offers count 11 plants and verify 2 oz of usable meds is on hand. They thank the Pt for his compliance with the warrant, the Pt thanks them for their due diligence and RESPECTFUL Nature, and they police leave, and file the findings that the Pt is in compliance. end of scenario.
Hows that work for you bobbyj?
Let me ask you a ? bob. how long have you been smoking Cannabis in your criminal career? you lay claim to being an illegal grower of cannabis prior to 2008s passing of the Act, something I did not do. so tell us dear bob. how long of a smoker have you been?
See you ASSUME to understand me, or who you think I am, or what I know or understand, but you are Fully Clueless.
That is your problem bob, I give you the Proper answer, yet you refuse to accept it.. Your mistaken, and I am correct, and you just dont like it. to bad so sad for you.
OK Non cannabis warrant. Say it is for failure to pay a traffic ticket. thats non cannabis.
the only thing the officers can do (short of walking up on a murder scene, or robbery ect, ) would be to act on the warrant for the Traffic issue ONLY. He may see cannabis in the visit, (though I highly doubt it) but the purpose of the visit is the traffic issue, therefore anything cannabis related would now be irrelevant, as it is not the purpose of the warrant. and cannabis is not murder...
the officer could report his findings, and they could issue another warrant for the cannabis, at which point, it is the purpose for the visit (or they could wait for the warrant at the time of the orig visit but it would have to be a separate warrant).
Without a Warrant to search for the Purposed illegal cannabis, anything they find would be inadmissible as was not part of the original reason for the warrant. Also, what guy would offer to allow the cops to see their private medicine scenarios? Unless the warrant was for Cannabis, As i noted above, I doubt they ll be sharing a cup of coffee talking about the grow room...
now with a Cannabis warrant. they come visit. Knock on door (i hope they knock anyways), and say, hey we have a warrant for a search on your cannabis. You say, here is My MMMA authorization card. It is fully Valid. For the sake of argument the warrant states a quantity check.
No where in the MMM Act does it say any agency or agent of the state has a "RIGHT" to check someones grow. By law they can not. ONLY a CG or his Pt, registered or not, is allowed to enter a grow area. The Person and the Police would be violating the Act if he allowed the police to enter the grow area, without that being specifically outlined in the Warrant. Lets again for the sake of argument say it was outlined.
The Authorized Pt has 4 plants in flower, 4 plants in veg, and 2 plants in the cloner. He has 1 plant drying, and 2 oz in cured usable meds. Clearly under the limits. The offers count 11 plants and verify 2 oz of usable meds is on hand. They thank the Pt for his compliance with the warrant, the Pt thanks them for their due diligence and RESPECTFUL Nature, and they police leave, and file the findings that the Pt is in compliance. end of scenario.
Hows that work for you bobbyj?
Let me ask you a ? bob. how long have you been smoking Cannabis in your criminal career? you lay claim to being an illegal grower of cannabis prior to 2008s passing of the Act, something I did not do. so tell us dear bob. how long of a smoker have you been?
See you ASSUME to understand me, or who you think I am, or what I know or understand, but you are Fully Clueless.
Timmahh
Well-Known Member
ahhaha nice try bobbyj. I use a analogy, and YOU have to twist it out of context. Typical short sighted thought process of yours.
the analogy being, Sometimes all you need to do is plant the seed, water it a little, and let the knowledge grow. that is you can not force someone to take a position, you must show them why that position is the correct one, and they will willing support it of their own accord.
Like it or not bob, I contradicted you because you make is SO easy to correct your remarkably wrong and bogus statements. In doing So, those here that see your BS, realize it is BS, and you lose credibility each time you attempt to prove me incorrect, because I am not incorrect. All one has to do is go through my prior posts to see my position has be solidly with the same position as the MSC. So you can argue with me all you want. My interpretation has been, and is now, pretty much lock step inline with the MSC Ruling, so your argument is not with me persay, but with the People of Michigan and now the MSC...
gladstoned
Well-Known Member
It sure is different listening to you counter Bob's points instead of just attacking him, his son, or other things just to be an ass. You sound like you are more focused now that you do not have to spend a big percentage of your time lying for blueberry and arguing with everyone about him. Nice change Timmahh.
FatMarty
Well-Known Member
Man I don't see that as a valid arrest at all.
First of all you can not measure what's on a live plant.
Second they only stipulate dry usable marihuana as weighable in the Act.
Third if a patient is not done processing the plants into usable marihuana the cops have no business touching it.
It is not their call if the plants are ready to harvest - it is the cardholders.
If the cardholder can reasonably show that they were not harvested, trimmed, and jarred: then it's just not usable marihuana.
One could even argue they need their meds cured to be able to inhale the vapor or tolerate the medibles.
Curing reduces trace chlorophyll and other gases that can cause headaches and irratation.
Probably take a trial to win that one though.
Besides: whatever you have is supposed to be locked up so they should never be able to walk in unassisted.
Use combination locks for stash and what have you.
Keep your grow under several locks so it takes effort to get to.
If they break three or four locks on their way to your meds they will have to prove they had the right to do that.
If they can walk in and see weed laying all over then I think you make it easier for them to fry you.
tomcatjones
Active Member
dry and curing meds DO NOT have to be under a lock and key.
only plants.
yes.. it is safer and i would suggest doing it. but if they walk in a see 7 ounces on my table... i should be fine.
only plants.
yes.. it is safer and i would suggest doing it. but if they walk in a see 7 ounces on my table... i should be fine.
jonnynobody
Well-Known Member
Whatever is discovered outside the scope of the warrant would become fruit of the poisonous tree and subsequently inadmissible in court. (I.E a search of guns turns up cocaine or what have you...the cocaine or whatever would be inadmissible evidence in a court of law). Law enforcement has to know specifically why they are violating your fourth amendment rights....warrants can't just be blind fishing expeditions. On the flip side, if the warrant was for guns and drugs...the drugs found would then be admissible.
ozzrokk
Well-Known Member
Yea I dont see any of that as being valid. Escpecially if the cops try to say that the plants WHEN HARVESTED will produce x amount. That would not stand the test of the SC I am sure of that. In fact I would go out on a limb and say it would not stand the regular court test. The law says 12 plants not what 12 plants will produce. If your law enforcement buddies want to get that at harvest weight they will have to come back at harvest time. Nice try Bob.
See bob you would have the leo be able to do whatever they want. That is what makes you DIFFERENT.
See bob you would have the leo be able to do whatever they want. That is what makes you DIFFERENT.
gladstoned
Well-Known Member
Honestly if you are allowed twelve plants and you show one plant produces 4 ounces the way you grow, there is 48 ounces. x 5 more patients = 288 ounces on hand from a harvest. That is simple math. That is what the law designed. Is 20 pounds for a caregiver nuts? Alcohol is legal. It doesn't become illegal if you buy 5 kegs at once. Yes 5 kegs is a lot of beer, not if you are caring for a bar though. You shouldn't be punished for being a good caregiver. It would almost make more sense to "punish or fine" a caregiver with no meds!!!!