Need advice from some pro's on brown slime.

[problemsolver]

I believe hes talking about a microbe tea not meant to have nutritional value, but simply to provide microlife that can live in the roots. Looks like hes using synthetics for his actual food.

Understood and thank you Heisenberg for taking the time to make sure I fully understood his question (sincerely, not sarcastically). Although, I do actually mean that he should not even need to use the microbe tea. I did not explain this before ( at least not in this thread) and I should have. If you're aeration is very high, for example, comparable to that of a fish farm tank outfitted with aluminum oxide air stones (non-decaying) and a danner pondmaster air pump, you would never worry about bad bacteria giving your roots problems. The aerobic bacteria would be outcompeting them, and there would be no need for a counteracting agent. All too often I see dwc systems farting out bubbles that make me laugh and wonder. You need look no further than the preliminary settling tanks of your local wastewater treatment plant to understand how vigorous your water should be bubbled. Even if your not doing dwc, the reservoir column must be vigorously( meaning not with the 4 outlet pump that comes with a hydrofarm bucket, and never use a hydrofarm bucket period) agitated to keep anaerobic bacteria at bay.
I never used any microbes and my roots are gleaming white and robust, only since I had changed my aeration scheme.

 

[Heisenberg]

Understood and thank you Heisenberg for taking the time to make sure I fully understood his question (sincerely, not sarcastically). Although, I do actually mean that he should not even need to use the microbe tea. I did not explain this before ( at least not in this thread) and I should have. If you're aeration is very high, for example, comparable to that of a fish farm tank outfitted with aluminum oxide air stones (non-decaying) and a danner pondmaster air pump, you would never worry about bad bacteria giving your roots problems. The aerobic bacteria would be outcompeting them, and there would be no need for a counteracting agent. All too often I see dwc systems farting out bubbles that make me laugh and wonder. You need look no further than the preliminary settling tanks of your local wastewater treatment plant to understand how vigorous your water should be bubbled. Even if your not doing dwc, the reservoir column must be vigorously( meaning not with the 4 outlet pump that comes with a hydrofarm bucket, and never use a hydrofarm bucket period) agitated to keep anaerobic bacteria at bay.
I never used any microbes and my roots are gleaming white and robust, only since I had changed my aeration scheme.

Agreed, the first thing I tell anyone before I recommend microbes is fix res conditions first. However there are times when slime takes hold, and we use a microbe tea to get things under control. If someone had improper res condition, or if they added something organic that caused explosive root gunk, simply adding more bubbles doesn't do the trick in some cases, and sterilization efforts do not seem to help either, nor chillers. There are times when the slime seems to get worse with more aeration, even thrives on the airstones. The organism(s) causing the slime in these cases seems to be extremely tenacious. A little microbe tea clears things up fast, as well as stimulate the roots. Most people find once the have a slime outbreak, it seems to come back quite easily, so they chose to use a microbe tea as a preventative.

Believe me it is frustrating when you read and collaborate information, such as 6-8ppm of DO being enough to kill anaerobic pathogens, yet you are staring at a 63f res with no organics and turbulent bubbles, full of slime. It doesn't seem to play by the rules, and the only thing that takes care of it is micro-diversity. It has been my experience that if you use the tea for several months with no signs of slime, you can stop and depend simply on proper res conditions to prevent an outbreak, but many people choose to keep using the tea as they perceive it causes abundant root growth.

 

[problemsolver]

Agreed, the first thing I tell anyone before I recommend microbes is fix res conditions first. However there are times when slime takes hold, and we use a microbe tea to get things under control. If someone had improper res condition, or if they added something organic that caused explosive root gunk, simply adding more bubbles doesn't do the trick in some cases, and sterilization efforts do not seem to help either, nor chillers. There are times when the slime seems to get worse with more aeration, even thrives on the airstones. The organism(s) causing the slime in these cases seems to be extremely tenacious. A little microbe tea clears things up fast, as well as stimulate the roots. Most people find once the have a slime outbreak, it seems to come back quite easily, so they chose to use a microbe tea as a preventative.

Believe me it is frustrating when you read and collaborate information, such as 6-8ppm of DO being enough to kill anaerobic pathogens, yet you are staring at a 63f res with no organics and turbulent bubbles, full of slime. It doesn't seem to play by the rules, and the only thing that takes care of it is micro-diversity. It has been my experience that if you use the tea for several months with no signs of slime, you can stop and depend simply on proper res conditions to prevent an outbreak, but many people choose to keep using the tea as they perceive it causes abundant root growth.

Have you seen the turbulence generated by a 50-100 watt pondmaster (Danner brand) air pump (or the equivalent) with a commercial fish farm air stone? Ever since I started using this aeration config I have never seen brown slime ever again. I tell you no lies. The turbulence must be so violent at the air/water interface that it looks like a rolling boil of a deep fryer on high. I actually have this going right now...8-44 gallon pails, 8-20 gallon pails, and 4-12 gallon totes. I had mega brown slime probs in the 12 gallon totes for about 18 months ( when I first started) using the same nute regimen I am using now. Once I stopped using the little 4 outlet air pump and stepped up to commercial fish farm aeration standards, I never had the brown slime again. All I'm trying to convey is that one must first increase their aeration to this standard (which is the gold standard) and if that doesn't work, then proceed with microbe inoculation. Because maintaining microbes can be another consideration involving more careful maintenance of the res (another variable) instead of the possibility of the automatic anaerobic army provided by extreme aeration, which is as simple to maintain as an occasional wipe of the air stone surface and a change of the air pump diaphragm once a year, if that.

 

[sterner]

i understand that more air may have taken care of my issue but how much does one of those air pumps cost?

 

[Heisenberg]

I use 1 35wt pump per 16 gallons of water. I paid $1 per watt for the sunleaves 950gph pump, but it looks like it's about $50 now. At 2wts per gallon you should reach the DO saturation point and keep up with the depletion rate of the roots and bennies.

 

[problemsolver]

They can be a little expensive. The 100 watt Danner Pondmaster which will handle about 12- 8" round aluminum oxide air stones(perhaps more) goes for about $200 I think. Even though the psi rating is 5.63 and the air stone rating is .7 , each air stone need not ( and should not ) be pushed to the max of its rating. Those stones create a rolling "boil" / optimal bubbling effect ( for dwc'ers) at less than their max output. They sell replacement diaphragms for them for around 12 bucks and they can pump very far down into deep water.

 

[sterner]

so i looked up how much the air stones would be and the pump. 1 round air stone is 33, so i would need 3 of them and 200 for the air pump. so 300 total plus shipping.

for 300 i can buy enough supplies to make tea every 10 days for about 3-4 years or more. i am sure the air pump and stones would provide enough o2 to not allow the slime to grow but the tea has other benefits as well that the air pump and stones cannot supply.

i'll stick with my 45wt pump, cheap air stones and tea.


-Sterner

 

[kanx]

Not quite sure if i've had a brown slime problem however i did have a problem which cause my roots to start to rot and smell of fish/seaweed!!!!!

Simply due to not enough air flow , I just invested in a nice propper pump and ive never had any problems since then.

I use canna a+b hydo sw, and some of there additives.

Hope this helps.

 

[Riley1216]

hygrozyme is an enzyme product. there is absolutely no bacteria in it. it is 100% safe to run with h202. spreading disinformation is a service to no one.

So I have been using hygrozyme for about 2 years and did enjoy it's effects. OMRI is a great company that makes fantastic products. I heard a bit later you will get the same results using H202 in certain doses along with epsom salts to flush the excess iron and built-up salts out. Must look into this works great equivalent to hygrozyme! however; OMRI just released a brand new product to our market, in which only limited stores are carrying: SLF-100. This is the best product i have used with the fastest and healthiest results w/out having to mix a bunch of fertilizers to make that "perfect" solution. This is that perfect solution by it's self. You can use it with organics or chemical growing, it flushes all the bad microbes and nutrients that are locked up so you have 100% guaranteed no root rot. This is a major problem for most organic growers and they don't even know it cause its at the bottoms of the containers. Don't miss out on buying this product at Paradise Supply in Grants Pass, Or (only place i've found that carries it)!