Learning...

[afrawfraw]

Your arguments can be used against everyone with a supernatural belief, where does that get you? With your point of view, atheistic science will be on top everytime. You are CONVINCED that atheistic science is the only true way. You wont even consider any other possibilities because science will tell you that those possibilities are irrational and simply cant be true, thats how dependent you are on it. "god" could appear out of thin air, fart in your face and say "I told you so!" then vanish and you would still not believe it because you are that thick headed.

If this occurred in eye sight of myself, my reaction would not be, "That was God." My reaction would be, "What is that entity? What is it comprised of? What gaseous mixture did it just excrete in Pad's face? How did it add and subtract mass from itself?" Something like that.

It isn't what you see, but how you see it. Do you rely on fallible perception, or objective reality. The notion that this being was a "God" would not be accepted by the entire world. Quantifying it's chemistry and abilities would.

Love, peace, and chicken grease.

Oh, and you've never learned anything from an Atheist. Let me try. (Clears throat)

When I was 12, I started playing D&D.

You didn't know that. Now you do. You've just received knowledge from an Atheist. Congrats.

 

[afrawfraw]

Your arguments can be used against everyone with a supernatural belief, where does that get you? With your point of view, atheistic science will be on top everytime. You are CONVINCED that atheistic science is the only true way. You wont even consider any other possibilities because science will tell you that those possibilities are irrational and simply cant be true, thats how dependent you are on it. "god" could appear out of thin air, fart in your face and say "I told you so!" then vanish and you would still not believe it because you are that thick headed.

I would never put science up against faith. Fool's battle. When a person has faith, their belief becomes as real as the screen your looking at. I would find it disrespectful to apply objective logic to a persons beliefs based on faith.

Like buying your father in law, who loves Chevy's, a Ford.

Even if the truck is in much better shape, the offer is refused because of emotional response.

=)

 

[Chief Walkin Eagle]

I would never put science up against faith. Fool's battle. When a person has faith, their belief becomes as real as the screen your looking at. I would find it disrespectful to apply objective logic to a persons beliefs based on faith.

Like buying your father in law, who loves Chevy's, a Ford.

Even if the truck is in much better shape, the offer is refused because of emotional response.

=)

I have no faith.

 

[cannabineer]

I would never put science up against faith. Fool's battle. When a person has faith, their belief becomes as real as the screen your looking at. I would find it disrespectful to apply objective logic to a persons beliefs based on faith.

Like buying your father in law, who loves Chevy's, a Ford.

Even if the truck is in much better shape, the offer is refused because of emotional response.

=)

There's a way to Dodge that dilemma. cn

 

[afrawfraw]

Owe, owe,owe,owe,owe.

Failing logic is obvious, and painful. For both of us. Because it hurts just to watch.

 

[afrawfraw]

I have no faith.

OK. Didn't propose anything on your beliefs. Your statement was towards supernatural beliefs and comparing with science. No attack intended.

 

[Zaehet Strife]

I have no faith.

I don't believe you.

 

[eye exaggerate]

Hey, Eye! Great thread idea. I really like this forum, the intellectuals, the crazies, the posers, the trolls, it's all good. It's SO entertaining, usually a lot better than what's on TV. I've learned a lot from so many of you, most of you are much more interesting than the people I run across IRL. There are some heavy thinkers here: from the skeptics, atheists and lovers of science I'm always learning something useful, and many are experts at subjects that really interest me. From the theists and believers of the supernatural, it's usually interesting to see where and why they're so very wrong. JK It is interesting to see how and why they came by there beliefs. Hep is an amazing example of how the discussions here (along with courage and honest introspection) can facilitate a drastic change in one's thought processes and beliefs. I'm inclined to speculate that there are probably others that lurk in these forums who have experienced similar epiphanies...

...I agree, there are a ton of interesting characters in here Just as a side(ish) note, have you ever communicated with someone in a dream, or while in a meditative state?

 

[eye exaggerate]

I've learned no amount of rational discussion or logical thought will matter to someone shackled by faith. Rational arguments don't work on irrational people. I've learned speaking about religion with certain kinds of people is a waste of time. Not to get hung up on things I can't change.

Funny I've never come across a religious person with any actual original thoughts or arguments for belief, a single time. I've been on the scene for 6 years, and every religious argument has been around for decades.

I've learned that the internet is where organized religions come to die. Bullshit doesn't get past people seeking answers, and it's impossible to lie when anyone can get the correct answer with the touch of a button. Those that don't, don't want to know what's true.

Worth 6 years of wasted time.

...well, Pad, I am a 'novel idea' factory (when all flows well ), it's what I do for a living. That, coupled with my belief, has a bit to say about 'no original thoughts'. If there is nothing new under the sun then it is clear that science is just connecting dots that were already there. Where's the new stuff from science? If science is 'made of matter' lets say, then really it is nothing more than lego for arrogant 'grown ups'. I don't mean that as a jab either, because I play with those same legos, so-to-speak.

To me there is zero delusion in holding science in one hand, and belief in the other. Otherwise, (imo) I would not be on this planet - it is 100% necessary to have consciousness and matter to play here. I think that both science and religion negate one half of themselves - and, here we are discussing it. Stuck in the middle, if one is lucky enough.

 

[eye exaggerate]

From reading post after post on this subject,what I've learned is:

1.An atheist logic is as strong as a theist belief.Yin Yang
2.Each side has subjective experiences which strengthen their claims.Moments of doubt or divinity.
3.Neither side relinquishes.
4.Both sides have become paramount advocates of ad-hom attacks and logical fallacies.lol
5.Never toke the haze when trying to reply to these threads.lol

...correct on all 5 counts. This was a good way to start posting here

 

[Doer]

"I've learned no amount of rational discussion or logical thought will matter to someone shackled by faith. Rational arguments don't work on irrational people. I've learned speaking about religion with certain kinds of people is a waste of time. Not to get hung up on things I can't change. "

Let's have a look at your roadblocks. "shackled by faith" "irrational people" "certain kinds of people"

 

[afrawfraw]

I don't believe you.

A skeptic takes nothing on faith, even yours.

 

[drive]

there's a way to dodge that dilemma. Cn

hahahahahahhahahahaha

 

[drive]

I have no faith.

I think you are a tricky raven Chief but you can't fool me. you believe what your eyes have seen and your mind has thought.

 

[mindphuk]

Your thinking about the pyramid video, numb nuts, and no one even watched half of it. Out of the many claims made in the video he decided to focus on just one to try and prove the whole video false. He focused on measurements of an incomplete pyramid and came up with a number thats under the speed of light.

Still dancing and spinning I see. Revisionist history and obvious inability to grasp what I was trying to explain.
I did not watch the video and focus on one part. If you recall, YOU made a claim in a post and I asked you to support it and you used the video as your support. When I did the same calculations, the exact same math, on the exact same pyramid (not an incomplete one) that the anonymous pyramid 'expert' performed, I got a value that was different from the speed of light by MAGNITUDES. Basically, they lied to you in the video and the only retort you had was that I should watch the whole thing. When I asked you why it was so important to watch the whole thing after I caught them in sheer dishonesty, you began to talk about all of the other parallels and connections to other places on earth. I told you I would be willing to discuss those other things once you acknowledged the fact that they were lying about the speed of light claim or show me where my math was wrong. I asked you that if they were dishonest in one part, why would I expect the rest of he video to be truthful? You dodged and danced splendidly while ignoring every point I made up until this day where you misrepresent what I found.

The lesson I got from our exchange is that you are not interested in truth and you are disingenuous in your dialogue with skeptics like me.

 

[Chief Walkin Eagle]

I think you are a tricky raven Chief but you can't fool me. you believe what your eyes have seen and your mind has thought.

Yes, I do believe what I have experienced is exactly what I think it is. I have experienced it too many times at will for it to be coincidence or trickery by my senses or someone else. When you THINK about questions in your head multiple times, and someone answers those specific questions every single time, I think its pretty clear whats going on lol... Im talking about a person btw

 

[Padawanbater2]

Yes, I do believe what I have experienced is exactly what I think it is. I have experienced it too many times at will for it to be coincidence or trickery by my senses or someone else. When you THINK about questions in your head multiple times, and someone answers those specific questions every single time, I think its pretty clear whats going on lol... Im talking about a person btw

Well, we could easily test that, and prove it one way or the other, but my guess is you'd oppose it or say something along the lines of "my friend doesn't want to be tested, he doesn't care, I don't have to prove anything to you...", sooo...

 

[tyler.durden]

...I agree, there are a ton of interesting characters in here Just as a side(ish) note, have you ever communicated with someone in a dream, or while in a meditative state?

Okay, I'll bite I've dreamed that I communicated with lots of people...

 

[eye exaggerate]

Okay, I'll bite I've dreamed that I communicated with lots of people...

Sweet

...do you think any of them were aware of communicating with you at the same time? I'd like to point out that there's no 'hook' here, I'm going with the flow, yo Just a couple of people who get a kick out of making 'stuff' (ie: music, etc...) Actually, now that I write that... do musicians just have really good timing? Is there 'another' form of communication happening when they are in sync?

 

[tyler.durden]

Sweet

...do you think any of them were aware of communicating with you at the same time? I'd like to point out that there's no 'hook' here, I'm going with the flow, yo Just a couple of people who get a kick out of making 'stuff' (ie: music, etc...) Actually, now that I write that... do musicians just have really good timing? Is there 'another' form of communication happening when they are in sync?

Cool It's never occurred to me to ask those people I dreamed about if they had dreamed of me simultaneously, and it's never come up. Of course, some of those people were dead at the time.
There is definitely a non-verbal form of communication going on between musicians playing together, and it seems to get more intimate and profound the longer they play together. My best friend is a pianist and we get together at least once a week to play through cool music he digs up, and there is a deep communication and intimacy that no other experience can touch. I think it is obvious to others, I often see our significant others act jealous of this connection as it's something they (not being musicians) can't share. Do you experience similar things?