Apollo 6 / Photon 90 - A look inside and looking for alternatives ways of cooling

[Rasser]

Before I joined this forum I had ordered a Apollo 6 equivalent(200W Actual) grow light
from the UK. It was also before I knew much about LED wavelength and plants,
so the unit has no 660nm red I think, but has uv and far red.

The purpose of the buying the unit was to replace 250W(+30W bal.) for flowering
in my closet grow where 12V pc fan's on regs. is venting without making to much noise.

And I'm kind of sensitive to noise, I've made great effort to make my pc totally silent
with solid state disks and passive GPU and very silent modded PSU.

I got the unit some days ago and to test it I had it running in my closet for
a couple of days while I was computing very close by, the unit is now in a tent in
the next room, but my ears are still ringing and I think my mood is still effected by it.

I feel a bit like Tommy Lee jones in the movie Under Siege after he's been blow
away by the big deck guns and start rambling about saturday morning cartoons and a
sweedish cook, and the mood of Stive Martin in Planes Trains and automobiles,
after the bus has left him on a empty car par and is barily making it to the
rental car office where a really irritating woman is making him go off the wall.

That's was the kind of mood with witch I was looking for a way to shut this unit up
from the fucking noise, this fucking vacuum cleaner makes.

What really was frustrating was that I knew that installing a fan controller would
not be good for temps and I could not see a relative cheap way to shut it up,
so I'm thinking right now it's not working lets have a look.

A little from the unboxing.

And inside.

Not much room for anything else in there.

Interesting LED driver, they must be running 2 modules in parallel 1.41/2 = 710mA

Fan PSU

Optical lenses ordered at 60° , next time I think i take 90° or 120°

I could transfer this module to another heat sink but I have to drill holes and make threads hmm.

Testing with running from my lab PSU and using nothing but passive cooling and very little power 5W pr. module.
Low temps , the plants are growing great from the intense light at that short distance,
with better cooling and more voltage on the psu I could use it in my veg department, a bit over kill
and the 3 modules are to close together for even the small containers.
After 2 days the panels goes back in the box.

Testing with my usb interface and PWM dimming of the module from 0-100%
using the lab psu(max 30volt) and a 12V psu connected in series to get 42 volts
now I can over power the LED via my control slider. But what real PSU would I use since the LED drivers
don't work with dimming, after some consideration and price matching I think I will use 3 PC PSU with
there 12V 32A each connected i series to get 36V and 32A from a unheard of cheap price, my local
HW pc shop take 32$ for a 420W 120mm silent fan PSU, so thats 96$ for a 1100 watt LED driver,
the current control I will make my self with the software and some cheap shunt resistor
and using the boards analog to digital input.

If only one could buy the modules alone cheap without the box and divers that would make an easy DIY lamp.

Any suggestions as to how to use the modules to build a DIY silent grow light without it getting expensive quick ?

 

[davemedinis]

Ya, it seems that the Apollo is really a modular design lamp, but i personally think there is a better way to design a better housing.
Now, based on your work, i can imagine if a driver or fan broken in the future, you will have to disassemble the whole lamp from the surface then to the heat-sink....and then to the driver and fans.
If this lamp can be assembled both from back-side and surface, this problem can be solved very quickly.
Anyway, thanks a lot for sharing this with us, keep it up~

 

[thatsmessedup]

^^ Awesome

 

[davemedinis]

I have question,the label says: R:B:IR:UV=54:18:4:4, so total 80pcs LEDs. But isn't the Apollo 6 built with 90pcs LEDs? What and where are the other LEDs?

 

[cannabuilding]

Nice thread Rasser, very detailed.

Peace to all and happy growing.

 

[Rasser]

Ya, it seems that the Apollo is really a modular design lamp, but i personally think there is a better way to design a better housing.
Now, based on your work, i can imagine if a driver or fan broken in the future, you will have to disassemble the whole lamp from the surface then to the heat-sink....and then to the driver and fans.
If this lamp can be assembled both from back-side and surface, this problem can be solved very quickly.
Anyway, thanks a lot for sharing this with us, keep it up~

It's not that bad, the chassis is heavy and robust and you can not bend it one mm
and I think it takes about 10 minutes from a empty chassis to at finish unit, when you get the hang of it.
And thank you right back.

 

[Rasser]

I have question,the label says: R:B:IR:UV=54:18:4:4, so total 80pcs LEDs. But isn't the Apollo 6 built with 90pcs LEDs? What and where are the other LEDs?

Good question ! never thought of that, my 6's LED configuration

Counting 64-18-4-4 - must be a writing error.

The 2 modules in the middle has no add on leds and they are running a bit brighter than the four corners ones,
And my unit draws 180 Watt and not 200W properly as a result from the add on leds, so is add on leds really
that great in these types of panels if you loose 20-30W. ?

Edit: Btw the uv and far red led's is almost invisible, making me think I got a busted unit in the beginning.

 

[GCMDH]

Hi， Rasser .
Your led light is very nice . And could you tell me where you get it ? or their website ?

 

[Rasser]

Hi， Rasser .
Your led light is very nice . And could you tell me where you get it ? or their website ?

Thanks.

http://led-lightbulb.co.uk/catalog/3/ledgrowlights - Seamed like the only option for me, since no danish dealership is available.

I see hi has added a HPS watt info to the light
Photon 90 led grow lights (840w HPS)
You got to be kidding me -400W HPS more likely.

 

[PSUAGRO.]

^^^^^Jesus Rasser, very impressive............Some of the best led modding advice I've heard of is found in the candlepower forums/or lurk MIT's lighting design/RD forums....

As to a simple DIY passive cooling solution why not follow EVO's design with a large aluminum heatsink and/or add larger HQ pc fans????

 

[Rasser]

^^^^^Jesus Rasser, very impressive............Some of the best led modding advice I've heard of is found in the candlepower forums/or lurk MIT's lighting design/RD forums....

As to a simple DIY passive cooling solution why not follow EVO's design with a large aluminum heatsink and/or add larger HQ pc fans????

Thanks.

I looked into that but was discourage by the price for the big aluminum plate and the weight of it, but mostly
from the fact that all the modules would point straight down and not be flexible.

But it is a good option.

I also thought of using single heat sink for each module and mount a silent fan on top of it. Like this:
(The module is 110x110mm so it should fit on this)

But 6 ps of those would cost me 250$ incl shipping so that a bit expensive.
(it's properly the shipping cost from the UK, it should be cheaper locally)


Another way was using a rectangular alu. tube and maybe block the ends and make it water cooled,
but the dimensions of the materials was to thin(4-5mm) to drill holes and make threads without the water getting in the way
and air cooling it would just make the same fan noise as the unit.

Right now the single module heat sink with a silent fan and hanging in some adjustable wires, so it can be used
in all kinds of ways looks most attractive, I just have to find some cheaper ones.

 

[davemedinis]

Good question ! never thought of that, my 6's LED configuration

Counting 64-18-4-4 - must be a writing error.

The 2 modules in the middle has no add on leds and they are running a bit brighter than the four corners ones,
And my unit draws 180 Watt and not 200W properly as a result from the add on leds, so is add on leds really
that great in these types of panels if you loose 20-30W. ?

Edit: Btw the uv and far red led's is almost invisible, making me think I got a busted unit in the beginning.

So, based on the Cidly calculating function posted by the other member at his thread, the actual power of your lamp should be:
Red LEDs 64x2.6x0.7=116.48W, Blue and UV LEDs 22x3.8x0.7=58.52W, IR LEDs 4x1.7x0.7=4.76W, total 116.48+58.52+4.76=197.76W.
Are you running the lamp at 220V input please? You will get more 8-10W if you run it at 110V input voltage.

 

[Rasser]

So, based on the Cidly calculating function posted by the other member at his thread, the actual power of your lamp should be:
Red LEDs 64x2.6x0.7=116.48W, Blue and UV LEDs 22x3.8x0.7=58.52W, IR LEDs 4x1.7x0.7=4.76W, total 116.48+58.52+4.76=197.76W.
Are you running the lamp at 220V input please? You will get more 8-10W if you run it at 110V input voltage.

My energy meter says 226V and 180W draw, and I can't see how the voltage can have any influence since the driver takes AC input from 85V to 265V

 

[Rasser]

I think I will try a way that are very flexible and relatively cheap.

At the cost of 6 aluminum heatsinks at 120x120x40mm I can get 6 Silent PC 550W psu's at 120£ total.

So why not use the the old heatsink cut in 3 pieces and mount the module somehow on/inside the empty psu case.

The case already has a 120mm fan with cost 1/4 of the psu, a plug that can be used to both fan power and LED power, and a on/off switch.
Then you get 6 550W psu's to play with.

Maybe mount the 3 psu pcb's on spacers in a cool larger box with fans
together with the 3 drivers from the unit, and a selector switch witch could
switch between the full power original drivers or USB controlled dimmable PC psu's.
(the 3 pc psu's loss could be a factor in that being successful )

Since the 3 drivers gets to be external and together with the change from 6 modules
with 4 80mm fans to 6-6 with 120mm fans, this will hopefully remove enough heat
so the modules will not need to make to much noise running during max power in the flowering phase.

Mounting the module on a real good heatsink in the case would of coarse be super, but anyway,
What do you think ?

 

[Rasser]

Hi Guys - You could check out my lights at www.plantphotonics.com as far as I know they are the best currently available

Hi.

God info on the LED burn in stuff thanks.

I have since dropped the idea of using the modules from the unit, and it's running in a tent now in another room
where it grows the shit out of 4 plants, it's working alright.

As said, I bought the unit before knowing much, and the add on did not cost much, and I just wanted to be sure
the unit would not miss a spectrum for growing and make seeds. Right now I have the option of short circuiting the
UV-LED's if I wanted to save power and it was within the range of the driver, or change it to another LED, the same
goes for the 4 IR's or the lenses, I've just scraped a broken 3x1 white LED and used the wide optic lenses from it on the unit.
I love the flexibility this unit gives me if I decide the use it's components some other way,
the 120W 112-1W panel is fixed and a nightmare to repair LED's on, as you also pointed out.

The drivers are contained in a big aluminum box mounted to the chassis next to 4 blowing fan and [Back from a trip to the tent to measure and feel the temp]
at 22°C ambient[unit will run at 22°C 90% of the year] the unit's driver is cold to touch and my IR thermometer is reading 29-31°C on the center driver and a
little less on the outer, the same goes for the heatsink 35°C was the highest I could read.

Mounting LED on PCB with solder as heat transfer is great, I imagine, on finished products like a 3x1W LED PCB board
but I'm glad it's not used on any of my panels, so I can change LED's if I wanted that.

Cooling semiconductors without soldering it has worked well so far, in the areas as power switching and rectifying(can be seen in every high power switch mode PSU),
Power amplification and computing where the heat from 100 watts CPUs and GPU's is transfered by thermal grease and a firm pressure. And thats the way I'm going.

About lenses: No one I take is suggesting that these guys get a flood light instead of a very narrow spot,
if that was the case the ordinance would be illuminated and not the artists. So thats not it, but what is it,
some say it's a myth and now you say it's even worse.

Now the guys have an other option - get closer with a smaller light source.

On the top picture A PAR meter reading would not change much within 1 meter, but on the second shot with a wide angle beam it will loose power much quicker when moving the same distance.


Good luck with Grow light business.

 

[patrikantonius]

I just took another look at the plantphotonics website and the page about "The Great Led Cons!" pretty much sums up my findings on LED panels. Seemed like a good lad, it is really too bad he was banned from posting here

 

[Rasser]

Hi. Vacation time again, and since the weather is still very bad I needed a project to cheer me up, so I made a prototype of the PSU box with a module from the Apollo 6 unit mounted inside.

The On/Off switch controls LED & FAN power.

I graped my iron saw and cut out the center module, leaving the two others floating on two bolts. The project started with a test of running 3 modules on 1 driver. That worked well, and enabled me to lower the fan noise, now that the unit was only running at 445mA So a simple 4p switch could make a cheap energy savings/veg option, on these types of panels. nb: the test was conducted with the driver link cable removed. with 3 connected the module voltage was 34V, 2V higher than the minimum 32V.

So now the unit is running with 2 modules on 1 driver(710mA), and the remaining 3 modules on a another driver(445mA)
the last driver is disconnected.
The light output is equal on the two sides.

 

[PSUAGRO.]

Are you kidding me Rasser^^^^ great stuff/project.........+rep........ah can't rep you again

 

[hyroot]

Wow. What the...... Thats crazy........ Im impressed. Best diy that I have seen. Good job..

 

[Rasser]

Are you kidding me Rasser^^^^ great stuff/project.........+rep........ah can't rep you again

Thanks ! I did think of you when naming the box and Jubiare.
The black/pink color and the 4 rings make it look in a kind of piercing S/M direction I think.

I really like these "Apollo" panels for there modules flexibility and serviceability, so much that I've ordered a Apollo panel just to use a raw materials to a diy light,
I did some quick math of cost of the unit divided by the numbers of modules with drivers, and when comparing to the alternative the extra cost was not bad, so now
I got the top light of the plants covered, and is considering what else to use.