Dear America: You should be mad as hell about this!

Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
http://www.businessinsider.com/dear-america-you-should-be-mad-as-hell-about-this-charts-2012-6?op=1







Much more inside

I heard someone point out it's not the wealth the super rich have accumulated that's the issue, being rich is awesome, everyone wants to be rich, it's the opportunity for economic equality that's the issue everyone has. I think he called it 'economic mobility'. The opportunities just aren't the same for everyone, which is the problem. And if we don't fix it, it will only get worse until it reaches a breaking point.
 
Illegal Smile

Illegal Smile

Well-Known Member

>I heard someone point out it's not the wealth the super rich have accumulated that's the issue, being rich is awesome, everyone wants to be rich, it's the opportunity for economic equality that's the issue everyone has. I think he called it 'economic mobility'. The opportunities just aren't the same for everyone, which is the problem. And if we don't fix it, it will only get worse until it reaches a breaking point. [/QUOTE]<

The opportunities are there. I grew up in appalachia and no-one in my family had gone to college before me. I eventually took a PhD and am publishing a new book. You don't really mean the opportunities aren't there, you just advocate equality of outcomes. The rich generally control more wealth because they have demonstrated an ability to control it better. Many of the rich who didn't, became poor. The fastest way for humanity to kill ourselves off is to regress to the mean.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Did you read the information in the link at all? Every measurable statistic says the growth of income over the past 30 years has gone to the wealthiest Americans. I really don't care if it's considered fair because they were smart enough to do it, it will eventually lead to the entire collapse of the economy, and at that point, there's only one other option left.
 
Illegal Smile

Illegal Smile

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Did you read the information in the link at all? Every measurable statistic says the growth of income over the past 30 years has gone to the wealthiest Americans. I really don't care if it's considered fair because they were smart enough to do it, it will eventually lead to the entire collapse of the economy, and at that point, there's only one other option left.
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Don't you know they were saying the exact same thing 80 years ago? It was nonsense then and it's nonsense now.
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
The solidificaton of wealth in this country is staggering. It is a fact that without government interference that solidification will grow to finally become unbalanced. I am more likely to be able to turn my one million dollars into two million than you are to turn your 100,000 into 200,000. If I can influence my government to give me breaks (with the money I already have amassed), I will aquire more. Now the only real way to equalize this trend is to level the playing field and one way to do that is to require the total divestiture of every fortune when the controler of that fortune dies. The dead have no rights.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
canndo said:
The solidification of wealth in this country is staggering. It is a fact that without government interference that solidification will grow to finally become unbalanced. I am more likely to be able to turn my one million dollars into two million than you are to turn your 100,000 into 200,000. If I can influence my government to give me breaks (with the money I already have amassed), I will acquire more. Now the only real way to equalize this trend is to level the playing field and one way to do that is to require the total divestiture of every fortune when the controller of that fortune dies. The dead have no rights.
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But their families do. You are describing a sort of Leninism deferred. cn
 
Illegal Smile

Illegal Smile

Well-Known Member
LOL, so in another 10 years the rich will have ALL the money?

You know, the better question here is why, after more than a half century on government spending on anti-poverty programs, to the point where we now have half the population on government support, WHY is the poverty rate (according to UN figures) no better in the US than it was in 1980 when the rest of the world's poverty rate has been cut in half?

I know - let's just pass a law that says that everyone is entitled to an above average income!
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Illegal Smile said:
Don't you know they were saying the exact same thing 80 years ago? It was nonsense then and it's nonsense now.
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Where is your data to dispute the facts presented in the article in the OP? Why are you trying to argue with me about the economic growth being distributed unevenly in favor of the wealthy over the past 30 years when these statistics are right in front of you? It seems as if you're arguing a perspective against your own interest, and having touched on politics with you in the past I'm assuming it's because we have pretty different political perspectives. Unless you're really wealthy, as the OP suggests, you should be absolutely pissed about this shit.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Illegal Smile said:
LOL, so in another 10 years the rich will have ALL the money?

You know, the better question here is why, after more than a half century on government spending on anti-poverty programs, to the point where we now have half the population on government support, WHY is the poverty rate (according to UN figures) no better in the US than it was in 1980 when the rest of the world's poverty rate has been cut in half?

I know - let's just pass a law that says that everyone is entitled to an above average income!
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Reminds me of the tagline for "A Prairie Home Companion" ... "and where everybody is above average." cn
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Illegal Smile said:
LOL, so in another 10 years the rich will have ALL the money?

You know, the better question here is why, after more than a half century on government spending on anti-poverty programs, to the point where we now have half the population on government support, WHY is the poverty rate (according to UN figures) no better in the US than it was in 1980 when the rest of the world's poverty rate has been cut in half?

I know - let's just pass a law that says that everyone is entitled to an above average income!
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I'm not sure you're understanding the point being made. It's not about giving everyone above average paying jobs, it's about fair distribution of economic prosperity across the board. Banks who fail shouldn't be rewarded, CEO's whose companies go bankrupt shouldn't walk away with multi-million dollar packages, this is absurd, and if you disagree with me, please, provide reasons why. 298% increase directly to CEO's and super wealthy, while the bottom 90% of the labor force, the people making the products that bring in the revenue, enjoy a 4% increase growth. This, again, is absolutely absurd. Meanwhile inflation continues to increase and minimum wage hasn't been able to support a single person comfortably in a decade.

So please, turn your brain on and start thinking about this stuff in a different way. Stop trying to make everything partisan, stop trying to blame someone else or another group or government hand outs, this is all a completely separate issue.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Padawanbater2 said:
I'm not sure you're understanding the point being made. It's not about giving everyone above average paying jobs, it's about fair distribution of economic prosperity across the board. Banks who fail shouldn't be rewarded, CEO's whose companies go bankrupt shouldn't walk away with multi-million dollar packages, this is absurd, and if you disagree with me, please, provide reasons why. 298% increase directly to CEO's and super wealthy, while the bottom 90% of the labor force, the people making the products that bring in the revenue, enjoy a 4% increase growth. This, again, is absolutely absurd. Meanwhile inflation continues to increase and minimum wage hasn't been able to support a single person comfortably in a decade.

So please, turn your brain on and start thinking about this stuff in a different way. Stop trying to make everything partisan, stop trying to blame someone else or another group or government hand outs, this is all a completely separate issue.
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A big step can be made by no longer practicing Too Big To Fail. Imo. cn
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
Now the only real way to equalize this trend is to level the playing field and one way to do that is to require the total divestiture of every fortune when the controler of that fortune dies. The dead have no rights.
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so, as each person dies, all the wealth accumulated during their lifetimes will be seized by the government? The communist party? the democrat party? who will claim everyone's estate?

The OP's figures dont specify whether the numbers are the wealth of the estates of real people or the wealth held by corporate entities. i think it's more likely the numbers are skewed by corporate takeovers, and the expansion of the mega-corps than anything actual people have control over. The gross numbers cited are also easily manipulated by extremes in wealth and poverty.

You are also forgetting the single greatest advantage the corporate person has over the natural person, immortality. under your "solution" wealth would aggregate in the hands of corporate entities, and real people would only get poorer as the years progress.

Think harder bro. "ideas" like that are the opposite of useful.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
Reminds me of the tagline for "A Prairie Home Companion" ... "and where everybody is above average." cn
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"where all the men are good looking, the women are strong, and the children are all above average".

i should not have to correct you when it comes to garrison keeler, neer :cuss:
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
Illegal Smile said:
LOL, so in another 10 years the rich will have ALL the money?

You know, the better question here is why, after more than a half century on government spending on anti-poverty programs, to the point where we now have half the population on government support, WHY is the poverty rate (according to UN figures) no better in the US than it was in 1980 when the rest of the world's poverty rate has been cut in half?

I know - let's just pass a law that says that everyone is entitled to an above average income!
Click to expand...
Actually that is not the better question, in 10 years the rich will be even more rich and the middle class less so, there will come a tipping point where wealth will become unsustainable but not until the middle class is destroyed. Why is the poverty rate no better? again, look at where the weath goes, that should tell you all you need to know. I do not believe that half of our population is on government support. I believe you will find that those figures include any family where someone is on government support or are receiving food stamps or social security.
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Where is your data to dispute the facts presented in the article in the OP? Why are you trying to argue with me about the economic growth being distributed unevenly in favor of the wealthy over the past 30 years when these statistics are right in front of you? It seems as if you're arguing a perspective against your own interest, and having touched on politics with you in the past I'm assuming it's because we have pretty different political perspectives. Unless you're really wealthy, as the OP suggests, you should be absolutely pissed about this shit.
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I am not pissed about the numbers but worried. What concerns me most is that the right, the middle class and even the poor on the right are perfectly willing to continue to promote "fairness" to their own personal demise. Those who least need our support and advocacy are the rich and yet somehow they have managed to get many of us to believe that what is good for the rich is good for us all. It ain't
 
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