leaf problems etc....so far no obvious answer

[obijohn]

I'm helping a friend with their grow this year since I am unable to grow this year, and we are seeing problems we haven't seen before. Both of us have grows under our belt, we may not be experts but are relatively knowledgeable based on past experience and other issues in years past, and have been successful.

Everything is outdoors, 10 gallon pots using FF Ocean Forest. Feeding Grow Big and Big Bloom a few times a week Leaves are showing brown tips, necrotic spots and some yellowing in the bulk of the leaves, not the edges. First thing we did is stop feeding, thinking maybe it was a bit of nute burn. But after 10 days the problem is still there. It's not overwatering, they are watered in the morning and typically start to droop and the soil is dry late in the afternoon, normal from past experience in the summer heat. Only thing that is PH'ed is when nutes are given, since they tend to acidify the water. She's used the same tap water over the years, it's slightly alkaline but she's never had PH issues before with it.

They took the following pics to several hydro shops, and everyone is stumped as to what it could be. Different strains, and it's across the board, not specific to one

Here is a pic showing the yellowing, which has gotten more pronounced since the pic was taken

View attachment 2239083


Here is one showing the necrotic spots and some of what we see on the edges

And a few more

Other issue is whiteflies. She has sprayed Monterey garden Knock Down Garden spray (pyrytheum/canola oil based) once a week, and next day they are still full of the little fuckers. Tried Spinosad, same thing. yesterday she tried Neem oil, today, no shortage of whiteflies. There is a Praying mantis eggsack waiting to hatch, but we were told they can help control pests, they arent gonna get rid of the whitefly infestation. Plenty of the yellow whitefly traps around the plants, loaded with them but doesnt seem to knock down their numbers

So, looking for ideas primarily on the leaf issue, and then for the whiteflies. No other pests detected on close examination of the bottom of the leaves, pots are painted flat white so they dont get too hot. Help?

 

[angryblackman]

Hmmm... Interesting!

http://www.onlinepot.org/grow/PHfluctuationsornutrients3.htm

There is a start. You got me on that one. According to those pics it could be a P deficiency but I don't know for sure. I know some of the OG's will be able to diagnose it for ya.

 

[obijohn]

Thanks, hopefully so. And thos friggin whiteflies, gah. Always been able to knock them down with a few sprays before, they just seem worse this year

 

[angryblackman]

I am reading that Safer followed up by DE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomaceous_earth) and then beneficial insects for a whitefly infestation. It's gonna be tough but she can knock them out.

 

[obijohn]

Safer also has neem oil, this bottle is an Osh brand. In googling it looks like neem oil kills when ingested and takes a few days, so we will just have to give it a few days I guess?

Any other folks have input or seen this
leaf issue before?

 

[*BUDS]

Bro this is starting to get to you i can see how stressed you are in the avatar.
White flys- yellow sticky strips hung near th tops of the plants will end this problem as they love them (dont know why).About 2 weeks to kill the breeding cycle.

2-The brown spots are salt build up so give them a flush with 6.5 water to clean up the soil ready for flowering.

 

[obijohn]

Hehe, doesn't phase em! There are six plants, and five whitefly traps. All gummed up with dead whiteflies, but they keep coming! We are gonna hope the neem kicks in next few days and see how it goes.

Thanks for the input, tho. Looks like they will be a constant battle to keep from ruining everything, so far no real damage is obvious. Any ideas on the leaves? Lots of water gets run thru the pots each day, and using the ff line she has never had salt issues in the past. I can lend a bottle of sledghqmmer to try. O ly salt issues I've ever seen have been in smaller pots using chemical fret

 

[rocknratm]

id guess nute burn. could be too much nutes or PH is off.... do you ph after adding nutes? (ph the water I mean...)

 

[obijohn]

Yes, ph is adjusted when applying nutes. Doesn't need much when using grow big and big bloom, but tiger bloom in the past acidified the shit out of the water. And as I said in the first post, their water is a bit alkaline out of the tap, but the hydro shop folks use the same water and say its not an issue.

 

[welshsmoker]

you got a soil ph probe mate? if not try and borrow one and see the reading. as for the white flies garlic tablets melted into warm water and sprayed normally will see them off. good luck fella.

 

[obijohn]

So we are going on the assumption the leaf issues are a cal/mag deficiency and see how that goes. Picked up a bag of espoma ggranulated garden lime at Osh, but no clue how to use it. The direction talk about cups per square feet, and we have ten gallon pots.

How much should be used, and how? Sprinkle it on the top of the soil? Dissolve x amount per gallon of water? Or is this what we should even be using?

 

[george xxx]

So, looking for ideas primarily on the leaf issue, and then for the whiteflies. No other pests detected on close examination of the bottom of the leaves, Help?

Strange looking leaves. Actually look more like some kind of insect damage. A little food for thought???
At night, the backyard comes alive with flying insects not seen during the day. These nocturnal insects prefer to hunt and fly after nightfall to avoid predators.

Where most of the country now has drought conditions a canopy of nearby trees can cause unusual insect problems because trees have become the only source of readily available food and moisture. Since you already have a known insect population, most of which will never be seen unless you look at midnight, you could try a spraying of Malathion. Spray not only the plant but also an area of 6 feet or so around the plant. Malathion is safe for growing food products but I would not spray any buds. After the plant has been sprayed continue to spray only the area around the plant weekly. The Malathion vapors repel insects.

I have a variety of similar problems trying to grow outside. On my back deck in the middle of the afternoon young tender MJ leaves are sometimes consumed in about 4 hours. I checked one day about every 20 minutes. I could see the leaves slowly being consumed until they were gone. The leaf edges look similar to nute burn not clean as being devoured by plant eaters. Within my canopy of trees are Black Walnut, Pine and diseased Elm trees. They offer an interesting mix of destructive sap and insect damage guaranteed to prevent MJ growth. You don't have to be directly under a tree's canopy to get tree sap and insect problems. The wind provides a path for the same problems to reoccur but only occasionally.

As I said just food for thought, I"m not saying this is your problem.

 

[george xxx]

So we are going on the assumption the leaf issues are a cal/mag deficiency and see how that goes. Picked up a bag of espoma ggranulated garden lime at Osh, but no clue how to use it. The direction talk about cups per square feet, and we have ten gallon pots.

How much should be used, and how? Sprinkle it on the top of the soil? Dissolve x amount per gallon of water? Or is this what we should even be using?

you can take crushed up dolomite lime or garden lime in a gallon of water and water it in the soil. 1 to 2 teaspoons per gallon of water, which will be slow acting

Lime should have cal/mag ratios at or very near 2:1
Total Calcium: 22.0%
Total Magnesium: 12.0%

A couple of cups of lime mixed into the top 3 inches of soil is also good. It's organic and hard to over do if percentages are correct. An application of 20-20-20 NPK organic fert is also a good way to cure nute defs.

The addition of lime also counteracts the acidic effect of peat breaking down in your soil mix.