Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
That's not enough evidence, the best you can say is the guy may have existed.
Nonbelievers, how did you lose your religion?
- Thread starter Padawanbater2
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Doer
Well-Known Member
I don't even have enough to say, may have existed. The evidence of absence, even, has been tampered with. So, I can't say, probably didn't exist, either.
It's the stuff of myth. Something>Something?Something. Even if it was just rolled up, whole cloth, from the tinest kernal of nothing. It's still something.
We discuss it. I have my views, in a large scale. There is endless detail. If there was no man, there is still this odd duality of message, as I mentioned.
It is enough for most to get this message. For me, the message is vey strangly different in what is attributed as "quotes" and what I can clearly see as praise or worse. You'd think after all this re-write and revision, and leveling of the stories, this would be reconcilled. To me the strory is about how sadly screwed up these Apposles were. But, the under message, which without parable, maybe 23, there are only a few "quotes." I'd have to check that one in Luke.
So, I can't say the man existed, but this odd, (and at odds with the current Religion); a strange message in the "quotes." survives. Or, it was created somehow alongside. So, my only point, if any, is that there are two things, in this subject. One is a principle in Latin called christus, or in Greek called christos.
Then there is the Church which is all the rest, Old Testement, the Jew killing of Diety, Constantine, etc.
There has been a giant effort to create the Man. It has served our survival, and there is a tiny bit less suffering. Is that the miracle?
It's the stuff of myth. Something>Something?Something. Even if it was just rolled up, whole cloth, from the tinest kernal of nothing. It's still something.
We discuss it. I have my views, in a large scale. There is endless detail. If there was no man, there is still this odd duality of message, as I mentioned.
It is enough for most to get this message. For me, the message is vey strangly different in what is attributed as "quotes" and what I can clearly see as praise or worse. You'd think after all this re-write and revision, and leveling of the stories, this would be reconcilled. To me the strory is about how sadly screwed up these Apposles were. But, the under message, which without parable, maybe 23, there are only a few "quotes." I'd have to check that one in Luke.
So, I can't say the man existed, but this odd, (and at odds with the current Religion); a strange message in the "quotes." survives. Or, it was created somehow alongside. So, my only point, if any, is that there are two things, in this subject. One is a principle in Latin called christus, or in Greek called christos.
Then there is the Church which is all the rest, Old Testement, the Jew killing of Diety, Constantine, etc.
There has been a giant effort to create the Man. It has served our survival, and there is a tiny bit less suffering. Is that the miracle?
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Where's mindphuk with the history of Jesus when you need him...
Doer
Well-Known Member
Yep, he has looked into it. I think he agrees though, There is no History. It's mythic. It's refered to by the unbiased, as the Histocracy or the Historicity of Jesus. There is aboslutely nothing.
I looked again last night and even the very earliest mentions are practically assured to be part of the re-write. Or Write, as it were.
The writing of Pliny, Josepheus, and the Acts of Pilate all seem to be tampered with, and they are the earliest of the non-biased accounts. They likey were not accounts of anything until edited later.
I looked again last night and even the very earliest mentions are practically assured to be part of the re-write. Or Write, as it were.
The writing of Pliny, Josepheus, and the Acts of Pilate all seem to be tampered with, and they are the earliest of the non-biased accounts. They likey were not accounts of anything until edited later.
mindphuk
Well-Known Member
just c&p my reply to Kaendar from the other thread.
Can logic explain the thousands of converts and visionaries that find themselves closer to God for no particular reason and give up everything in their lives to follow him? I went on a pilgrimage to Medjugorje in Bosnia-Hertz...(curses to the spelling of that county's name 
). It is a town where young children have been seeing and currently are seeing the Blessed Virgin Mary on a 'regular basis' since 1981 and she is bringing many messages into the world, sent by God, through his grace. I visited this place for almost a week, and it was the best thing that has ever happened to me. Many miracles happen to you while you stay there, many younger people like me in our group had family members who had, IE: cured cancer after they returned from Medjugorje, which were explained only by the Miracles of Medjugorje. Our priest leader was an amazing man who left millions of dollars, mansions, yachts, wealth, Cocaine/Drug addictions, and his secular lifestyle after he had a vision of Jesus and Jesus told him he should become a priest. This is as big as the visions in Fatima and in Guadeloupe.
Here is the summary of Medjugorje
Link, if you need it:
http://www.medjugorje.org/overview.htm
Contact me anytime for guidance.
God Bless.
). It is a town where young children have been seeing and currently are seeing the Blessed Virgin Mary on a 'regular basis' since 1981 and she is bringing many messages into the world, sent by God, through his grace. I visited this place for almost a week, and it was the best thing that has ever happened to me. Many miracles happen to you while you stay there, many younger people like me in our group had family members who had, IE: cured cancer after they returned from Medjugorje, which were explained only by the Miracles of Medjugorje. Our priest leader was an amazing man who left millions of dollars, mansions, yachts, wealth, Cocaine/Drug addictions, and his secular lifestyle after he had a vision of Jesus and Jesus told him he should become a priest. This is as big as the visions in Fatima and in Guadeloupe.Here is the summary of Medjugorje
Link, if you need it:
http://www.medjugorje.org/overview.htm
I hope you can find this as life changing as i did, unfortunately you most likely hadn't been able to visit there, but I hope you can realize what is happening in the world and how we can play a part.
Contact me anytime for guidance.
God Bless.
Doer
Well-Known Member
Ah Guidance. Of course, I knew that. You've come to the right place. We are very familar with these stories. In fact, that is what we have been talking about... stories, only.
If I may, however, I wish to point out, the basic position on which you place your logic is but the poverb's, house upon the sand.
"Can logic explain the thousands of converts and visionaries that find themselves closer to God for no particular reason and give up everything in their lives to follow him?"
You are making an assumption. Then the logic is that the assumption proves the assumption that these folks are motivate by this assumption.
It is a false logic. It is weak logic to try to prove the unproveable, right? But this church logic is faulty. You first must have us assume God and the Devil. And of course, all the rest of it is only based within the assumption of Catholics.
The biggest problem with Abraham is that he convinced those around him that he had it all figure out. Yet, the Kingdom of Judea was over. This posion pill of smug, unique damnation if we don't believe these stories, is all the supersitious power that remains. Assumption after assumption.
If I may, however, I wish to point out, the basic position on which you place your logic is but the poverb's, house upon the sand.
"Can logic explain the thousands of converts and visionaries that find themselves closer to God for no particular reason and give up everything in their lives to follow him?"
You are making an assumption. Then the logic is that the assumption proves the assumption that these folks are motivate by this assumption.
It is a false logic. It is weak logic to try to prove the unproveable, right? But this church logic is faulty. You first must have us assume God and the Devil. And of course, all the rest of it is only based within the assumption of Catholics.
The biggest problem with Abraham is that he convinced those around him that he had it all figure out. Yet, the Kingdom of Judea was over. This posion pill of smug, unique damnation if we don't believe these stories, is all the supersitious power that remains. Assumption after assumption.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
Now if they could cure even one case of Down's, I'd be impressed. cn
Trolling
New Member
Their was a special on ABC last night "Is their a heaven?" and people was talking about their near death experiences. It had this one 4 year old boy who died for a few minutes and saw all the people from the bible which could be explained if he was already taught that (hallucinations when the brain is deprived from oxygen) but then he said he saw his dead baby sister that had died in his mother's stomach which nobody ever told him about. When they revived him, he asked his parent's "mommy, you had a baby die inside you, didn't you?"
Not sure what to say about that but it gave me the chills a little bit.
They also said that some people could have what they call the god gene. Good watch if it's out on the web, could be on their website.
Not sure what to say about that but it gave me the chills a little bit.
They also said that some people could have what they call the god gene. Good watch if it's out on the web, could be on their website.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
I've heard that story rehashed a few different times, some kid actually got a book published and milked it for all it was worth, made a killing (him and his parents) with the same story.
This, to me, isn't a case of divine intervention (for the long list of logical inconsistencies inherent in every organized religion), it seems more like a case of the parents lying, and after you consider the outcome, one really has to question their true motives. It's pretty obvious these parents lied, came up with this story (but most likely heard it before), then devised a plan to make money, like most con artists do in religion, by taking advantage of good peoples weakest traits.
I also find it interesting how each of the claims made my people like this are always, coincidentally, unverifiable. You can't test to see if the kid had actually never been told anything by his parents, and who knows if they were lying about their miscarried daughter in the first place?
You make no sense, people don't believe that God is an assumption, no idea where you got that... people believe God because of visions and true things that happen to them. it's not assuming something is true and that it is logical, it is knowing something is true based on fact. Some people do not get these signs, but others do, and the more pure of heart you become the happier you will enjoy this world God created for us.
for 15 years they have conducted tests on all the visionaries (except maybe one denied having them) and they conducted over 120 tests one of the visionaries... the organizations who carried them out where sent by the Vatican and many Atheistic organizations. The Vatican has officially accepted it as truth and real, and the Atheistic organizations have backed off because they have found no evidence and they have a problem with their members converting after they leave Medjugorje and that is something these organizations fear. Hence why they have stopped. They have done many wired brain studying, i'm not sure of the science behind it, but they tried to find if the visionaries were hallucinating, but found no abnormal brain wave or brain functions, from what i have read and heard from people int he village and by these organizations. if you do enough research, you will find some of the experience these researchers have had and their very own conversion to Christianity that they talk about, stemming sometimes from a complete lack of religion.
And for those with no religion at all? who die for seconds, if not minutes, and then come alive and dedicate their entires lives to God? not knowing where their beliefs came from but only concluding that it was in fact God who shed light on their souls? this is what happened to the priest who lead our group in Medjugorje. Father Rick Wendell, if you can find him...
Zaehet Strife
Well-Known Member
I had a vision last night... or "dream" if you may. I remember i became lucid, and instead of flying off... i stopped and screamed; "God! Where are you?! Show yourself!"
My consciousness yelled back; "Quit talking to yourself!"
My consciousness yelled back; "Quit talking to yourself!"
Doer
Well-Known Member
So, people with visions make assumptions that the visions are actually God. Or, they make assumptions about coincidence and logic about, surely this must be God. And there is the basic assumption that there must be God, the bible stories say so.
And many folks, including me, feel something. We have some experience. But, my take would be considered heresy, to be sure.
These all become, as we say, stories. Only Stories. No universal assumptions that there is this loving anthropomorphic God.. Many assume there is nothing. Nothing but stories. And if you were rasied like me, before you could talk and before you could eat you had to pray before the sustanenace of life could be had. Just stories. And fear. Refuse to pray for supper? How? You don't have volition, much less chioce. No free will at 3 years old.
So, I'm sorry, to me it's a con. It is the basic Italian mafia protection racket. Create something to fear and then offer salvation from it. You have to believe the wise guys will bust you up. And much as been lost to this Roman plot.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Yeah, even non believers.
How can you be sure when you reference 'God', it's the Christian god? Why not the Viking god, or any of the eastern gods? Norse, native American, or any of the ancient religions that aren't practiced anymore's god/s?
Because you live in western society, and our culture conditions you to believe in the Christian god.
If you lived in Pakistan or Iran, you would be referring to Allah or Mohammad. Doesn't that strike you as a little odd? Geographic location determines what religion people generally follow, why is that?
So, basically, you are telling me that when a person visions the Blessed Virgin Mary, receives messages from Mary about what is occurring in the world, is given a tongue to fully understand another language(yes this occurred to one of the visionaries, she gained the knowledge to speak Italian, when she previously knew very little of the language, but learned to speak it fluently), is brought to officials, beaten, and questioned ruthlessly about her existence but still prevails, when people all throughout a village clearly see the words 'pax' in the sky(meaning peace in Latin), when being threatened to have your family's entire land and house seized away at the age of 16 by the government police and still go against them, and many more occurrences of faith, that these are all somebody just doing this because 'God would be the logical answer to why this is happening' you are making up think my friend. If God is what these people believe is the logical answer, and you are telling me they are wrong, then what would you tell me it is?
You find yourself in a position in which you must flush out God and everything about God, and you excuse your faith because that someone in your family forced you into prayer in order for you to eat. Any true Christian knows this is wrong, and the true face of Christianity, the one that the blessed Virgin Mary has come down from heaven to try and re-educate to the world, would not use fear and hunger to persuade it's believers. You are telling yourself that you are judging Christianity by a Christian, but you must learn to judge Christianity itself, and you will find no errors in Christianity. This is what many Atheists try to do, they create a false truth for themselves, but can't stand hearing the real truth, so they try eagerly to flush out the truth so they can live their false truth and they think that they have solved the important things in life when they haven't solved the most important. Mary has come to wash away the things that many people who call themselves christians, follow. You can find these things just by turning the TV on. If you think you are right, and that the Christian faith has errors, and that you can use those errors to prove that you are free from fault, then you are very wrong. I hope you can take my word with the fullest love of God that i have and i hope you can try to focus on something real that is occurring and that you can't escape, no matter how hard you try.